L2 logic
You think the game got better because of an execution barrier that gets in the way of playing the real game until you learn it.
This ukyo_rulz guy is literally insane.
Yeah, when I heard about plinking, I tried it and thought ‘this is too difficult, I already hit my links anyway, no point’, and stopped trying. Now all my friends make fun of me because of some execution barrier I can’t overcome. 
i read this as where you think you are in your own level of play in terms of strat and execution
i would say i am probs 60% execution and 40% strategy. i can do combos but probably think my strategy is a little lacking. i think i mainly get by on solid fundamentals and having good execution.
I think it got better because the execution barrier got lower. Plinking is easier than double-tapping or just linking raw. There was an execution barrier, and then it got lower. Before you had to link raw, now you need to learn plinking. One is easier than the other.
You can hit 1-frame links easier than you can link 2-frame links? Impressive.
Also, because most people aren’t aware, even though there isn’t a training mode in SC2, there are custom maps where you play by yourself to learn better micro, like marine splitting practice maps, and so on, so forth.
And back in the UT04 days, if you went online to play in a pug, let me tell you, you weren’t getting in the manta unless you’d been in a private game by yourself and learnt how to fly the goddamn thing.
Training mode by name might be exclusive to fighting games, but training mode by idea is present in almost every competitive game.
Yo UT had some high ass execution requirements in general. Shit was nuts and totally awesome.
Yeah, but the manta’s the most obvious one, because its really difficult to not just constantly fly into walls and blow yourself up.
True, after all my years of playing, my friends enver let me fly a Manta I was total ass at it.
I’m a gamer, I love games, I’ve been playing them forever (as I’m irritatingly prone to say). Nevertheless, if you can’t see the difference between exercise and team participation on the on hand and muscle memory practice on the other, I don’t know what to say to you.
Actual physical exercise has a wide array of benefits that have been proven a huge number of times and in a massive number of studies. Team practice has a less direct benefit, but try it sometime. It’s a whole sense of community that is pretty lacking in most gaming, even social gaming 
and, about those mental benefits… (yeah sucks that it doesn’t hotlink to the cites, but it is cited anyways). Even if that’s crap, and there’s no mental or mood benefit at all, the physical effect is striking and overwhelming.
I only talk about this though because a fair number of people have brought up sports practice as a counter-example to the arguments here. Its a bad comparison, and a totally different subject, and in a situation like that you have to describe the difference to refute the point, and hopefully keep the next guy from bringing it up again. One thing you’re not gonna do is get me to quit refuting bad analogies
And once again, you're conflating *depth* with *difficulty*. They're not remotely the same thing. I'm fine with something being hard to do, if there's a compelling reason for it, again its sometimes a necessary evil.
Finally, about the fact that people get enjoyment out of fighting that difficulty, believe it it not I’ve been there. It was the late '90s, sure, but still. I totally know that feeling. Still, it just seems like busywork to me now, dunno what caused the shift in mindset.
The thing with that element though, is* it seems to me like you’re taking a big risk of pleasing a minority at the cost of displeasing the majority,* which can be a bad scene. I at least am willing to take a good game that’s not exactly what I was looking for, especially if I Think it’ll make the community better. (I actually looked for a study on that just now, but the term ‘accessibility’ has a fairly specific meaning out there, per google, that being accessibility to people with disabilities. That stuff is interesting, but not very helpful :p)
I think what’s cool about it and what is seen in a lot of commentaries is that the execution opens up their strategies. If they know how to have that mobility they know where they can cut off someone and prevent a pick up and acts like zoning in a FG. If they know how to rocket jump they could avoid using stairs and launch pads to get where they want and have more pathways of movement. In the vid I posted even the pro player can be taken by surprised because his opponent somehow got into position really fast to ambush him.
I think a parallel to that might be how fly/unfly works for Marvel characters. It’s a mobility skill but it brings out the option for the player offensively and defensively. It also zones the other character if they could not match you movement wise (you can control the air and hover in deadspots) and even if they can fly, if you get the advantageous position on them pre-emptively you could shut them down.
Plinking is absolutely some grind-it-out-in-p.mode “not the real game” busy-work as much as any other difficult execution minutia you might care to complain about.
I’m glad that your opinion is so much better than Pete278’s though.
Also, plinking is easier than double-tapping? Come the fuck on.
You never put the dummy on “player” and sat in p.mode with a friend?
I don’t think Xesaie actually plays fighting games
This clearly has nothing to do with this topic then. You can go ahead and make a thread about how to make the community and fgs more noob friendly
I agree entirely. Plinking is absolutely some grind-it-out-in-p.mode “not the real game” busy-work. But it’s still easier than raw 1-frame links. “Better” is relative. SF4 was improved. It didn’t become perfect, just better than it was before.
Are you saying it isn’t? I seriously thought that the ease of plinking was generally accepted. If double-tapping is easier, then I have been making it harder on myself whenever I play SF4. @_@
Agreed. It has nothing to do with the topic, but it is the answer to the question you asked so I posted it. If you don’t want me posting about my motivations, then you just need stop asking me about them.
Yes, I think double-tapping is far easier to do.
And double-tapping is actually better than plinking (gives you a larger window) for 2f links, assuming you do perfect (1f on, 1f off, 1f on) double-taps.
I have! And it’s mad fun! I’m also the guy who always is bugging them to put in an online training mode. Yeah it would be kind of hard to use with lag, but it would still make the whole experience so very much better!
People always say that, which is hilarious for 2 reasons, first of all because its just ‘can’t get outside my own head’ bullshit, and secondly because I’ve played a wider variety of fighting games over a longer period of time than 99.9% of SRK can imagine.
Hell, earlier in this thread somebody got annoyed at me for bragging about my range of experience ><
Now the thing is, I try to reconstruct a scenario where I’d come onto SRK of all places to make up shit if I didn’t play fighting games? What’s the gain? I could be going someplace and lying about the time some guy tried to mug me but I took him down with my Jeet Kun Do even though he had a gun, or about how I totally bought a Ferarri California Spyder last week, and man is it bitchin’! (Hell or Both! James Bond is actually based on me!)
When you disagree with me, I don’t say you’re stupid or clearly don’t play or are more hated than hitler (hi Schoultz!). If that’s the best you have to say, maybe you need to re-examine your arguments… or maybe you need to go and relax and step away if its making you mad.
It’s the same concept, but gaming is look down upon which is why I knew that nobody is going to say that working out is bad.
Grinding in training mode allows people to understand more of the game’s system, practice their movement, look at their inputs, etc. There is absolutely no disadvantage o using training mode, similar to working out in the gym. People staying on at home does not automatically make you a good player. You still have to interact with other people, and be able to play the game at the highest level to be worth a damn.
Honestly I don’t understand people complaining about execution barrier, very few high execution games don’t reward strategy too. It does not matter if you grind EWGF/Koeran Backdashing out, you will get blown by people who have better footies/spacings/yomi/and knowledge of Tekken. MVC2’s high execution barrier has never stopped Justin Wong from winning. FG is still forever is a 2 player game, you can’t be good in fighting games unless you play other people.
Training mode is still beneficial because it allows you optimize your skills for competition in the future through.
Well, I guess I did waste a lot of time plinking on SF4.
Goddamn, really? Listen. There are plenty of people that get into various team sports specifically because of the ancillary benefits. It’s not that training mode hurts you, its that it doesn’t provide benefits beyond the game or a sense of satisfaction from doing something hard.
I’m not down on gaming at all, but it’s simply not the same.
Holy fuck, are you doing this on purpose? Nobody said it’s the same. He just showed you how the concepts are VERY SIMILAR, and found in a LOT of competitive avenues.
There are execution barriers in A LOT OF OTHER THINGS. You haven’t responded to him as to why they’re ONLY BAD in fighting games. Stop meandering please.
Who cares if training mode doesn’t get you bitches? We all know it doesn’t, and that’s not we’re looking at. We’re looking at the intrinsic similarities, not the derived external benefits from one or the other. Stop reaching and answer the damn question. Why is grinding to master the perfect backhand in tennis any better than grinding to master your optimal combo OUTSIDE of the EXTERNAL BENEFITS?
We’re purely looking at the concept of doing something repeatedly over and over in order to master it , everything else excluded.
God I need a drink so bad right now, this is draining