I am
really hit or miss trying to set up a vortex agaisnt Ken, is it possible if there just spamming the skrken? Or does my kunia(sp?) need to come out faster? If so how do I recovery fast enought from a neck breaker that connected? I usually use fierce neckbreaker
well i have two methods to make the meaty kunai hit cross up or not while still being able to combo after. The first method is doing any untech set up like neckbraker, throw, 3 kick move, sweep. Right after any of them you want to dash or use whatever you like to set up a timed kunai, but do it as fast as you can from a super jump as this makes it cross up every time, if you do not input the super jump it will look the same almost but not cross up. The second method is after a neckbraker or rekka kicks, do a slight step forward(very slight) then super jump and send the kunai at the apex of the jump and you will get the cross up, and of course if you do not step forward at all it wont cross up. Anyway these are prolly old but thought I’d share.
Also after any blocked set up, i found a cool trick to hit mash os or throw attempts, just do c.lp then insta neutral lp kunai, kida cool as if it hits you can sometimes get a f+lk xx rekkas
anyone else thinks that ultra 1 might be better than ultra 2. I was able to hit people with a block kazegiri FADC --> ultra 1. much, much more than super jump cancel to ultra 2. ultra 1 create another dimension in ibuki’s Vortex mind game. even walk up ultra 1 is god like even people was waiting for you do the vortex.
Both Ultras are useful, but I agree. If I’m planning on using the vortex I like Ultra 1 for the scare factor.
I’ve gotten people off an empty jump with ultra 1 because they were worried about getting in the vortex.
Ibuki is a shitload of fun.
yeah empty jump --> ultra 1 is good too. basically, they can’t tech or OS tech against Ibuki if she has Ultra 1.
I agree as well. I even have used df mk slide into ultra to grab the person’s mashed attack, and Im thinking of using it off a blocked kunai.
Yeah, your timing is just off. You should have plenty of time to SJ Kunai after any neckbreaker. If anything, I wait a little bit before I jump and throw the Kunai.
If you’re trying to really get the timing of the kunai for the vortex, it doesn’t really matter what jump you use to get it first. The timing is everything. Before the last couple days, I couldn’t really do it properly. Now I’ve pretty much got it. It’s earlier than you think. Too early, and it’ll look like it’s just passing through the opponent and hitting the ground. Too late and you may hit them, but likely won’t be able to combo it. Once you do it 5-ish times, you start to really understand. You’ll have more of an idea how to do it from different setups.
Also, the normal starter for whatever TC you want to do takes a slight bit of timing finesse to get as well, but it’s pretty loose.
hi guys,
I just got a question. I have been trying to practise the Vortex after a neck breaker via Super Jump. I am doing this in training mode ( setting the dummy to auto block ). I realised the dummy auto block every single one of my vortex . It doesn’t work with auto block ?
If I were to set it to a human / no block , I wouldn’t have a clue if I m doing it right or wrong as dummy will get all hits .
How are you guys setting this up ? I read the forum something about recording it on a dummy and testing it by being the 2nd player, but I want to learn and ensure my timing is good for the vortex.
Any advice / recommendations are highly appreciated.
Thank you
Im practising the vortex with the dummy set to no block, the trick is if you are doing it right, the kunai counts towards the combo hits.
So if you practise with the simplest sequence of vortex kunai followed by standing lp, you will get a 2 hit combo message when you get the correct timing.
Once you got that timing, you can start turning that standing lp into a lp-mp-hp target combo, followed by whatever finisher you prefer.
You can’t use auto-block because the meaty kunai is a guessing game essentially. If the opponent chooses correctly, they will block the kunai. The computer will always choose correctly. The way to test how safe your setups and stuff are is to set Ibuki as the dummy (2p) and then record yourself doing the vortex. Then set to playback, and try and get out of it.
EDIT: Ah I see. Just practicing the execution you have to have it on no block. If you have it set to take the first hit, and block subsequent ones that aren’t combo’d, it’ll block the meaty attacks IIRC.
Thanks for your reply.
I will give that a try later but wouldnt that means I wont be able to know if it is crossup ?
Should I conclude it as a crossup if the kunai hit the opponent and me landing behind him/her follow with a TC ?
Cheers
yeah if youre execution is tight enough youll eventually have a method to be either hitting front or crossing up consistently.
once you get to that stage where youre comboing consistently, then record yourself and try and block against the recording, that will tell you which way your kunai is hitting.
at this point you will then have to identify a variation that causes the kunai to hit the other side, this might simply be a slight delay before you jump or jumping a tiny bit earlier, or it could be a step forward/backward.
ive found that i have to delay my lp just slightly longer than i would from a normal jump-in to be able to combo off the kunai - i dont know why this is, but its handy because it gives you plenty of time to confirm the kunai has hit before you try and combo off it.
I’ve noticed when I am practicing set ups, if my kunai is meaty enough, and I have the dummy set to crouch, the kunai will stand them up on hit. Is this some function of the dummy being slow to crouch? Or do meaties not allow enough time for people to properly crouch(at least hitbox wise)? I’m new to SF so sorry if this is a dumb question.
On wake up, initially you are standing.
That’s why cross up air burn kick, air hurricane kicks and even high tiger shot can hit meaty on wake up.
Great post laying out the spacing differences needed to adjust off Tsumuji. I know in an ideal world keeping that safe vortex going is great but for those times I mix in a Tsumuji combo ender, it’s nice to know I have more options. Though I might add a SJ LK->MK crossup is perfectly spaced and very deceptive at wakeup distance after any Tsumuji. I hit people with it 90% of the time it seems.
Anyway, I’m practicing the #4 method, not just because I’m used to that kunai height but because if somehow I screw up the MK is safe at 0f. Once I get better with execution that may change. Good stuff!
That’s only for getting the timing down for kunai to TC down. The vortex part is having the kunai land on a particular side. If your kunais always land on one side, the vortex becomes vastly simpler to defend against.
To practice landing kunais on a particular side, I’ll quote myself from earlier in this thread:
This is loads better than having to record yourself then playback.
Im starting to think that going just for more Tsumiji mix-ups, and Ender Vortex are a better, as well as safer route other then fishing for neck-breakers off of links. In all honesty, from the recent videos of the vortex, it’s shifted from landing neckbreaker to fishing for neckbreaker off of links with some CD mix-ups, and finally to Tsumuji + CD mix-ups and over-all better safety. With that said, I believe that Tsumuji should be a little more preferred over Neckbreaker now unless you land LP MP HP TC (Which in that case can go either way with one choice giving more stun, and the other giving more damage). Personally, I still think Ibuki is not only a stun queen, but a damageing monster, and I think by combining previous neckbreaker combos, plus with the recent Tsumuji + CD shenanigans, can give Ibuki a very strong vortex game. So far the following perks IMO:
Tsumuji- Easier to cancel into, and can give us several things:
- Chip Damage, and a decent advantage on block (I think 0 for MK?)
- Easy Untechable knockdown which sets up ALOT of different things (Mostly the stuff that Alex has been posting up)
- Damage over stun
- Can be chained into reps of Tsumuji’s if timed right.
- Perfect distance after block to c.MK
- Crouching opponents can be hit (I believe)
Neckbreaker- Still easy to cancel into, but it’s perks are limited:
- High stun. Simple enough. With one or two of them the OP will more then likely be down for the count after a well placed stun.
- EX version allows for UKD’s against fireball characters.
- Good against charge characters
So from there, we all know their obvious drawbacks at times with Neckbreaker’s one huge one which is being blocked if you dont get your cancels fast enough. With a proper mix-up of the 2 (with neckbreaker combo’s mostly leading from the TC’s), it will fortify the idea of the vortex after you add in the SJC Kunai. Now, to add to the confusion of the maelstrom that will be produced we DEFINITELY need the CD mix-ups. They add so much more variety to her that it’s almost hard to past them up. Most CD’s can lead into extra damage be it throw, SJC CD to Kazikiri, etc. Hein should also be used more, especially the EX version since that also adds in a whole other layer of awesomeness (especially since you can safe gaurd yourself afterwards).
Hey guys, hope everyone in here is enjoying Ibuki like me. Am not new here to SRK to be honest, i had another name under the ID “the Beholder” , sadly i forgot the password and for a reason the auto pass reset doesnt wanna arrive to my mail. so i made a new ID.am not a nub to fighting games to be honest, but i can be consider a Newbie to SF4 series. i just bought the PS3 before SSF4 comes out by 2 and a half weeks. so i was completely New to SF4 series (yes my first time to play sf4 was when i bought the ps3…i was really busy with life, but i decided fuck it!! time to chill back and play fighting games like wut i used to do). My main is Abel, and to be honest the game is HARD as F***!! anyways to cut short to this aimlessly introduction, i bought ssf4 just for Ibuki and My god!! am having fun owning people with her.
the reason why am posting here is because i have some stuff (i know that most of u know it) but some others dont. i dont wanna make a new thread where SRK admin will move it or delete it, so i decided to post in here cause wut am gonna post now is related to Okizeme and vortexs.The post is basically mentioning everything that Kunai’s Okizeme applies. the reaosn why am doin this? tis because some stuff i noticed that i Heavily use are not used by everyone else! where am like why not?
am watching vids and tryin to track on people who plays Ibuki , so far some stuff i use or do makes people txt me with “WTF was that” or " Your cheap" or " u dont know how to play ur so cheesy" …etc etc (PS: yah i know they are nubs) while on the other hand am destroying those scrubs specially ryu, ken sagat and boxers. and the reason why am somehow always doin pressure? thnx to some okizeme that not everybody saw or know.if it’s possible i would like to contribute some of my idea’s of those Okizeme to Ibuki fans. I will be also making some vids with everything that i will mention here just so people have fun watching em and understand em easier, and i hope that they might be useful.
before i say anything please keep those in mind:
-Ibuki, not a Top tier at all!!! a lot of counter characters, and the fact that she takes massive damage more than others.
-Okizeme depends on u watching ur opponent Ultra meter and as well as SUperbar meter against some characters.
-Patience is everything! as well as being calm and very offensive by bein smart
-this is just a part of my project which is bout Okizeme with Kunai’s only. hopefuly i will release a vid with Traps that as well might be useful to some people
-Finally, Every Single Move for Ibuki is followed by Kunai Okizeme!! that’s Ibuki!! pressuring and confusion it is
So yah…Ibuki on the scene:
In my point of view, i devided her Okizeme into 3 main Types, which are:
1- Full distance Kunai Okizeme
2- Cross over Kunai Okizeme (only Blockable by crouch block and not a stand block)
3- Regular Kunai Okizeme
- applies to some certain moves, like for example: Raida, EX raida, Yoritoishi (Ultra 1), reverse throw( b+throw), EX Neck breaker, and while Opponent in air jump EX Kunai (from full distance)(whither they tried to stand up quick or not, will differ only in timing, always expect that opponent will quickly stand up)
Others might apply as well like EX Penguin kick, though EX penguin can be easily dodge by opponent standing up quickly, hence the Okizeme is not safe. Not only that this is the most dangerous type of Okizeme, only do it against some characters (considering the fact if they have Either Ultra or Ex bar).
PS: no , shoryukens and EX shoryukens doesnt makes them punish such Okizeme
the idea of this type of Okizeme is, that mainly can be changed to become a different type of Okizeme if done in certain distance. for example, if u done a Raida in corner, then the certain okizeme i apply wont help in such a situation (u will understand later on)
-
Cross over Kunai Okizeme. and that is wut i mainly focus on in a match. moves that follows after this type of Oki are; Neckbreak, Kazegiri (Focus cancel), Regular throw, Tsumuji( hyper with FK or MK, not LK), Regular sweep, and Target combo lp,mp,d+fk,fk (followed by a jump) only in corner*.
This type of Okizeme is Only escapable by either crouch blocking into stand up block, OR some certain EX moves like chun li’s ex Bird kick
PS: yes not escapable by doin ultra or super. some supers escape but still opponent will put him/her self in a very bad situation which they will regret as well as few ultras(hence it’s a cross over). -
this type of Oki is the same like number 2, though the difference is that it’s not a cross over! ibuki will land infront of opponent leaving her invulnerable in some situations , hence a lot of stuff in this case can punish Ibuki badly (for instance, Adon ultra 2 avalanche, or guile’s flash kick explosion). some example only applied for such a situation is long sweep Distance, or a combo of LP’s into sweep, or a max distance Tsumuji hit,or Combo target lp,mp,d+mk,fk~forward jump (not in corner*), or the Famous d+fp(counter hit or not) into sjc lp/kunai ~ into any combo target or wutever.
Executing and understanding the Okizeme’s:
Before i start, taking control of ur kunai is everything. u can do a neckbreaker and land a forward kunai where u dont have to change directions, or u can take control of ur jump and kunai to cross over ur opponent. all of these Oki depend on ur hand and practice! tis not a certain that if u followed this small guide then u will land it like wut is mentioned here! but atleast it can help u to excute the Kunai’s in the way am mentioning. i will release a vid on youtube soon with all of these Oki + game traps and combos, as well as how to play on an arcade stick with Ibuki so u can easily see it with ur own eyes if u cant visualize it.
lets start with the most confident type of Okizeme where u will be always safe and where most of the people know, which is Okizeme type 2.
before i go deeper into it, note that u can take control of the Kunai wither it hits opponent down or up forcing him to mind game wither to crouch block or stand block. in order to take control of it, then delaying the Kunai’s or excuting them early might help u in understanding which type u want your Kunai to be. to do the Cross up that am about to explain, then the kunai must be preformed when ur jump reach the highest limit on the screen, not after nor before the highest limit. for example : Neck breaker (everybody know it) do neckbreaker, wait a little bit, and then jump forward.once ur jump is at the highest altitude , preform LP kuani ONLY!! fp or MP Kunais wont reach opponent.
also this Okizeme applies if type 3 Oki moves are done in or near corners.
As a summary here are everything where u can Okizeme after, which ever the situation distance is:
-Raida
-Kazigiri and EX
-neckbreaker and EX
-Air EX Kunais
-Both throws
-Tsumuji
-Ultra 1
-Ultra 2 (not included in this guide, but follows type 1 and 3 Oki/vortex)
-Combo Target s.lp,mp,d+mk,hk~ jump (DONT EVER do this Oki against opponent who can Dragon punch)
-Regular sweep
*** TYPE 2:***
A- Neckbreaker: Everybody know that so am not gonna explain apparently lol (i know all of u know all of them, but am just being friendly and bored tryin to come up with stuff)
B-Forward Throw: after throwing wait a bit, and then Quickly jump forward~ into Kunai qcf+lp. if u wanted instead of waiting , u can preform a dash! any type of dash. i usually do the FK dash in order to just confuse the eyes of my opponents, specially if it’s ryu, ken or sagat to keep them tryin to Hom target me with shoryukens.care that this Okizeme is risky, it really depend on every character due to their sizes.
C-Tsumuji: qcb+fk, into d+FK. after the knockdown, quickly press and hold f/u, at highest altitude do a LP kunai. if u wanted u can do any dash as well after Tsumuji, though u will put yourself in the same situation like the forward throw! which is risky if u didnt pull it out correctly.
D-Kazegiri EX cancel: This Kazegiri is applied wither ur Opponent tried to quickly stand up or play dead, though it will differ in excution.
-If opponent quickly tried to stand up: kazegiri into EX focus cancel (when u double dash tap u will automatically move under opponent unless if the Kazegiri was max distance, though both situation u can easily use em to create a vortex of Okizeme), wait for less then a sec and then Quickly f/u Jump into qcf+lp for Kunai. if done right u will successfully cross up opponent forcing him to only block crouching. also instead of waiting u can also quickly dash (any dash) though the timing will be more tighter.
-If opponent didnt quickly stood up: then u got lots of options. u can do any dash, wait a bit and then quickly jump into LP kunai. or u can take ur time, move a little bit backward distance and then preform a jump as if ur exactly following a kunai right after a neckbreaker situation.the idea of using such an Okizeme is not just so u waste ur 2 bars for such a stupid Risky okizeme, the diea is to chain a combo into a Kazegiri and then cancel just to confuse and put pressure on . one of the most common combos i use specially against charterers like sagat, hakan (average +) is ; lets say am tryin to do a regular jump with LK vortex in corner,so after the jump lk, s.lk, s.mk, LK tsumuji ~ f+lp,mk into Kazegiri/ focus cancel .
PS: this Vortex can be done anywhere, corner or know corner hence i applied it as a Type 2 Oki.
**E-Sweeping **: The same effect like Tsumuji, the only different is it depend on the Distance the sweep is preformed. if it’s preformed max distance then u cant crossover oki(type 3), if it done in close range then u can cross over with kunai and be completely safe (type 2)
D-Combo target: DANGEROUS!! only used against Non Dragon punches. though! there’s a fun way to own those dragon punchers after the combo target (s.lp,mp,d+mk,fk), as well as preforming an Oki game mechanic to take control and start loopin a vortex. to do that, simply after jump preform EX kuanis. if opponent dragon punched and u did an EX kunai (sometimes they break both the kunai depending on the DP strength and the time u executed the EX kunai) and if succesfully hit him, u can simply jump forward into kunais crossovers and vortex , wither he tried to stand up quick or play dead both applies for vortex/okizeme (favour to ibuki ).
anyways, kunai can be preformed against non DP and some chargers (like Honda’s stomp or blanka vertical roll…they cant do anything to counter ur kunai, that’s for sure)
Type 3:
Exactly the same, the only difference is u dont crossover. in that case it’s not always Safe! some stuff like EX dragon punch can face palm u if u didnt execute ur Kunai correctly! (example, against ryu, u tried to do a quick Kunai so he reversed with ex dp…he will get hit and as well as u, forcing u to be air knocked out and ryu’s DP gettin canceled…which will leave u to eat a free Metsu Hadouken, and i really hate it when it happens). other thing like an ultra , which leave the opponent invincible to dodge ur kunais though not all Ultra escape such a forward Okizeme game! some of them will just dodge the Kunai and leave u safe (like kens ultra 2 or Hakan’s Oil coaster).
anyways, i suggest that u always try to cross over Kunais if u have the opportunity, which will always leave u safe…master the technique and dont put yourself at risk
and now to the most important part!
type 1: Long distance Okizeme:
Will, this is the reason for this guide. i never saw anyone using those kind of Okizeme in any Match vids or online game/ online replays.
the idea is that after u knocked u opponent far away, u can still do some Okizeme games which they might not expect! as well as HUGE sets of traps.Here are the moves which allows u to pressure ur opponent right after:
-EX raida or Regular Raida
-Ultra 1 or ultra 2
-Reverse throw
-EX neck breaker
Example: do ex neck breaker, after the move is finished, pause for less then a sec, then hold f/u for jump. at the max altitude of the jump, preform FP kunai (only FP one). and there u go, as soon as ur opponent stands up he will be forced to block a kunai and wont be able to do anything bout it! unless if opponent have an ultra (that’s why always keep an eye on ur opponents super bar and ultra meters).so for this trap, after landing a FP kunai u can do a LOT of stuff! and i mean a LOTs of traps options and mind gaming. the most one that i usually use is, after the FP kunai; s.f+LK , qcb+FK, d+fk (and now start ur Okizeme kunai endless vortex…the cross over one please).it all depend on the distace, this situation of long distance Okizeme (type 1) only applied in open area’s (not near corners). if they are done Ofcourse near corners, then tis even better! u can land vortex and start ur loops in. anyways, all of the mentioned above give u opportunities to land ur Oki/ vortex games though it all depends on the distance.
other example for type 1 situation: (these situations are good cause they dont care wither opponent blocked or not! opponent will eat em up and pressuring him/her)
*-From mid screen, back ward throw. as soon as ur in control, hold f/u to jump and while at max altitude preform FP kunai, as soon as u land, f+lk ~ qcf+fk (pass through dash) into wutever mix traps u wanna use (i suggest combo target into vortex loop)
-Riada done in open area, quickly hold f/u , at max altitude of jump to fp/Kunai. as soon as u land f+lk~ Kazegiri into Focus cancel, into Ultra 1.
*
As a summary, Long distance oki games = Kunai with FP (not lp one) land into f+lk ~ into wutever u want (the f+lk kick is due to the long distance range)
that’s it. i know u guys and all of u mostly know all of this, but i had fun bringing them up. i will release the video soon, i will start capturing around tomorrow. so if u wanted to see all of those with more details and explanatory, then please i would like u to see my videos when they come out.
my video will be 3 parts. the first describing all of her Okizeme games and every single situation (bout a 6 min vid). second part about traps (using ultra 1) and combos. Part three and final will be how to play Ibuki on an arcade stick and Ps3 pad for newbies (specially full detail on how to easily preform combo target into ultra 2).
thank you all and hope i was useful. also thank you for lettin me post here as well as thank u for reading my crappy grammar and spelling bad Engrish!! if u have any question please reply back with wutever u need.
The Beholder
I just want to say thank you to all whom help me out. I think I am getting the vortex trick ( after setting up some record and replay ).
On the other hand, can someone tell me this. Is it true that meaty kunai / vortex trick / cross up doesn’t work on CPU when you play arcade mode ( setting - medium hard ) ?
Somehow no matter how many cross ups / non cross ups I do , it doesnt work.
Can someone please confirm this with me?
Thanks again !!