^^ Which is about as safe as you’re going to get and as such, should continue to be called a vortex. Great post.
so I’m trying to do this in the training room with auto block on against Ryu. So it’s possible to do this vortex and to link the kunai into s.lp with autoblock on? I can’t seem to get it at all. Any additional tips?
No, you can’t pratice it that way in training mode because you need Ryu to be knocked down to start the vortex. As soon as you start it your kunai will be blocked regardless of what side you are on because of autoblock. The only real way to test the vortex is record ibuki doing a good one and then you be the character she does it to and test stuff to try and escape it.
As seen in the video above, how do you chain the kunai > s.lp? When I tried, s.lp always got blocked.
I assume you’re hitting with the kunai on their other side, right? If the kunai hits and the rest is blocked, it’s just a matter of timing. I find I have to wait a split second longer before the st.LP than if it were a standard j.FP combo. Just keep repeating it in training and trying to find that sweet spot. Once you get it, it’s easier.
@seedy- I am going to compile a chart later on on how effective the kunai is thrown imediatly on a characters wakeup for all the characters. I am going to be using several wake up options though. I have been using neckbreaker, tsumiji, forward throw, sweep, raida in the corner, and tsumiji in the corner.
Different characters require different dashes to be done after each type of knockdown, and different characters have a different minimum height that must be passed in order to cross them up. Also it appears that different characters get up faster than others. And certain characters can avoid the target combo if they duck or just stand even after getting hit.
So far the least effective character the vortex (rather the one I am using) can be done on is on Guy lol. I have only started to compile this list though and it isn’t very detailed, so I am going to make a new one including all this information.
If there is anything else I should add, then let me know.
Maybe I should also have options that character has for escaping. Guy can escape easily with EX spinning kick thing.
That would be an extensive, but very helpful list! Good lookin’ out.
You’ll have to excuse the late reply. Again, my execution is fairly bad so I couldn’t get things as tight as possible, though it most definitely seemed with tight execution there’s enough time to set up a “safe jump” situation out of this. Much like how Akuma can do a normal forward throw into 2 dashes then Demon Flip and it beats reversals and so on.
I’d appreciate it if a few people could try this out to better confirm if it’s a valid tactic, but if it is I feel this will be the main choice for Ibuki’s vortex, due to the unsafe nature of Kunai setups.
I figured thats what it was. I get varying degrees of meatyness, and I’ve never had some one fa out of my stuff, but one of my friends was saying that it was a way to get out. I’m new to SF so I didn’t know about the startup on FA, so thanks for clearing that up.
Still on the topic of saftey, it seems that non-cross up is much safer vs ex grabs/ect(like blanka balls and flashkick, but not stuff like spinning bird kick). If you timed it right they should have to either reversal and whiff their grab going the wrong way, or end up blocking/getting hit if they try to wait and input it so it hits the right side.
I’m still having a good amount of success with this stuff 2 weeks in, but I still am waiting for some hard, GOOD info on the launch to reset setups(s.lp s.mp cr.hk s.hk)? There is no safe kunai setups off it, so thats only really a move if you think they are going to try to poke out with normals or throw. Even the jumping seems pretty unsafe, so outside of command dashing I don’t really see any thing as being strong unless you’re taking some one by surprise(like for example, I don’t generally use that string, so I don’t see too much resistance when I do it).
I’m a little confused about the purpose of this vortex.
Is the point supposed to be that when you throw the kunai, you can land on the other side and hit them from behind? Thus, the combo is unblockable as they have to block either the kunai or your TC from the other side?
Or is it simply to confuse the opponent?
I guess the question is, on wakeup, can a good player block the kunai and then turn around and block the target combo? Do they have time?
The point of the kunai mixup is they should be forced to guess which side they have to block the kunai from, not about if they can block just you landing on the other side of them. If you’re kunai didn’t hit then the mixup failed.
Yep, it’s all about confusion. The first place to start, however, is getting that kunai to land properly on the other side and to get used to continuing the combo with proper timing. That alone will get a lot of new people but you need to take it to the next level. So once you’ve got that down, you can work on slight timing adjustments to work on getting the kunai to go on either side.
Am I suppose to get the kunai to hit on the back side? What kind of timing do I need? Fast? Slow?
I just bought a thingy (Dazzle) so that I can record stuff and show you a few vortex setups so you guys can start off until I actually have my chart, but I don’t have a dvd drive on my computer, jajaja, so I can’t install the program. When I solve this problem, then I will show you guys.
I got the cables though so we’ll see.
@treasureden- certain characters require different timing AND spacing. Also different types of knockdowns require different timings, spacing as well, and some might work whereas others, not so much. That is why I am making a chart, so that you can see it, and know relatively how fast, or how high to jump and w/e.
Well for the crossup yes, that implies you’re hitting them on the other side. That’s one step of the “vortex” in that one of your air kunai options is to cross them up. Another is to have it hit them in the face/front, when they expect it to cross up (after you’ve trained them to expect it). As far as timing goes, it’s hard to explain because it’s not just timing the kunai release but when to jump (slight pause before the SJC method). Or in the method I posted, I do a LK Command Dash into instant/fast LP kunai which requires no pause (but more execution). So watching the videos in this thread will get you the crossup/behind kunai hit timing.
And once you get that, hitting them in the face/front is usually as easy as releasing the kunai a bit earlier.
Here’s the common “safe” SJC version people started learning with
[media=youtube]B1jcbtwl99Q[/media]
And here’s my tweaked version using CD -> normal jump variation to throw them off (less safe)
[media=youtube]Vef_qgfwQm8[/media]
In fact, here’s a match where I used both in the same round to confuse Balrog (first round). Note both were crossups but the CD really sold me staying in front.
[media=youtube]1WnhesNYFSI[/media]
To answer the questions, it isn’t an unblockable setup and they always have time to block it.
AFAIK it doesn’t seem possible to set up a Kunai -> Ultra unblockable, but it might be fun to experiment.
They only need to block relative to where Ibuki’s position is compared to their own.
When done perfectly, it forces people to block or use specific escapes on wake up.
My question is to those who’ve played several real matches with Ibuki, did weal and noted their performance.
Has anyone come up with a particular number of successful vortex successions/set-ups that will get your opponent dizzy? Obviously, this will be character specific, but I’m just looking for a general estimate. I think this will be VERY useful for Ibuki players. In the future people are going to trying there damnedest to shut her down (her low stamina is what they will target) before she can get them caught up. So I think the best way of insuring victory before they can execute a counter plan, is to actively go for a dizzy. After a dizzy combo into set-up they should be pretty much dead, and one can just play the zoning game with Ibuki if they survive.
Hope my post is decisive lol Edited several times
I think I got the timing on this now.
You have to time the jump, not the kunai throw. Jump too slow and the s.lp will gets block. Jump too fast and the kunai will miss (not hit).
Thanks for the help SeedyROM. Those were very helpful videos.
Well the timing of both is technically important (since you could do it super early or late) but you’re right, the jump is the key part. Glad I could help!
Don’t be surprise. Dive kicks are safe against many characters, Ryu not being one of them. Anyways, I understand what others are saying about this kunai mix-up and how viable it can be, but it’s obvious when you are trying to set it up. Many characters have reversals to beat it or you can simple back dash it (front or cross-up kunai). Maybe a bit too harsh, but I see it as a gimmick or “newness” factor combo.