If you start in down back position, aren’t you just going to get cr.HK and not cl.st.HK?
I’m horrible with the timing after the FADC lol. How many frames are available after the cd though? I’ve gotten the cl. HK xx cd but that’s all I got to because I dunno when to press cr.HP and it just whiffs.
Try plinking the cr.HP.
I meant after you hit the C. HK., I go from downback to uptoward to get the timing right on the command dash SJC.
well… it didnt seem to get answered anwhere, but by the way you word this i assume you are having trouble hitting with the juggled cl.HK?
i cant remember but i dont think its possible after an EX kazegiri… they are to low. if you are doing regular kazegiri you’ve GOT TO MAKE SURE that it hits only once… if it hits twice you cant juggle with close hk cause the juggle limiter will kick in.
fadc’ing a kazegiri for only one hit can be very hard if you are trying to do it from an lk or mk kazegiri. thats why i use hk kazegiri and you probably should to… the other versions are to fast and alot of times they’ll cancel on the 2nd hit, completely fucking the combo over.
if its the cr.hp sjc that your having difficulty with just slow it down, its the easiest move ibuki has to sjc from cause she has forever to input the down up motion.
also like someone else said, after down +hp its better to return the controller to neutral then back to down and up. if you try to do it all in one down up motion it becomes alot harder cause the cancel is slow but the super jump input buffer doesnt get held very long… ie you worka against yourself and make things harder. just slow it down and your golden. also you dont have to cancel the cr.hp right as it connects… you actually have the ENTIRE time the move is retracting to sjc it… its the only sjc ibuki has that performs like that… meaning that you can juggle with cr.hp… then wait until almost right before your opponent hits the ground to cancel it… making it possible to actually perform safejumps against all characters depending on your setup/jump cancel timing.
-dime
I’m working on a chart listing all possible frame variations Ibuki can get after cr.HP xx jump cancel instant kunai. Right now it has 13 characters, but I’m working on the rest although it’s very time consuming.
Knowing these data will boost your damage, stun, and flash.
When everything is done I will try to group the characters and give advice on what do do vs certain characters so we can actually remember this stuff in real matches. For example jc forward lp kunai gives the maximum advantage of +7 in all scenarios vs Akuma and E.Ryu, so we don’t have to remember the rest.
Please give your opinions on the format, or if I’m missing anything vital. When do you want to do these combos? I’m thinking as a big punish or off a crumple, where these data is sufficient.
If anyone wants to help gather data, that would of course be appreciated (plus it will let you practise the timing)
The chart can be found here:
first =)
(reserved that is)
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Can you give a short (or thorough, if you wish) summary of your test procedures? Yeah I know, sounds like the scientific method, but documenting everything is important to ensure nothing is overlooked and that everyone else can replicate your results.
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I still can’t think of any situation where neutral jump kunai would ever be useful over forward jump kunai.
Btw your server seems to be running some pretty old server software, unless who.is is wrong.
"This chart lists Ibuki’s frame advantage on hit after crouching HP xx jump cancel instant kunai.
Everything so far is tested with Ibuki being point blank next to a standing opponent. Both jump-ins, different spacing or crouching opponents can drastically change things. But off a successful focus crumple the values should be right, although this isn’t thoroughly tested. Usually a jab kunai is the best option after a close jump-in. "
What is missing? The kunai is done as early as possible. I do about 20 attempts per setup testing first +3, then +4 und so weiter, until I’m almost positive you can’t do any better. ?'s are there when I have a feeling it can go a frame further but I can’t seem to hit it no matter how much i try.
Situation 1: safer
Take Ryu. In the corner you get +7 off a JF jab kunai. But the kunai has to be thrown at the first possible frame, or it’ll whiff leaving you vulnerable. Off it you probably want to do st.MP, st.MP, st.MK xx EX tsumuji. If you do NJ strong kunai instead you get the same advantage, but you’re safe if you mistime the kunai. Ryu will block it and you will recover first. And you can still do st.MK xx EX tsumuji off it if it hits. And you’re only giving up on the st.MPs. This should probably be noted in the chart though. Maybe a “mistimed kunai will whiff”-warning. What do you think?
Situation 2: better combos.
Vs Guile in the corner. To maximize stun, your optimal combo would be cr.HP xx NJ mp.Kunai, st.MK xx EX tsumuji, EX raida. 361dmg/665stun
The best alternate from forward jump would be cr.HP xx JF lp.Kunai, st.LP xx st.MP (2-hit) xx st.HP xx EX tsumuji, EX raida. 377/631.
cr.HP xx JF lp.Kunai, st.LP xx st.MP (2-hit) xx st.HP xx lk.Tsumuji, st.LP, st.MK xx EX tsumuji, EX raida does even worse 377/586 (but it’s fancy fancy).
Gief and Sim added. Both are kinda immune to this thing
Iirc, cr.HP whiffs on all crouchers anyways, and if it didn’t then it would force stand anyways.
At least it hits a crouching Seth, making it possible to combo a jab kunai. That’s not possible if he’s standing. But I know it whiffs on many characters so collecting the data won’t be a big deal.
Abel, Rufus, Makoto added. I guess that will be it for tonight.
Funny, I always thought the frame advantage had to do with how close the kunai hit the feet, not the strength of the kunai. Like on most characters you had to use mp kunai but on characters with big hit boxes you can use lp kunai.
It does have to do with that. The chart basically lists how close the different kunai strengths hit their feet. So like with vortex you can get a feeling for a good or bad kunai hit.
I’m just doing this to be able to generalize and start using it in real matches, because it seems more complex than big vs small.
Edit:
Viper and Fuerte added. Fuerte is particularly funky since his stance pushes you away, so it has two sets of data for him. One standing point blank when he’s doing his dance and one where he’s just standing. I doubt this is going to affect the usability though, since you won’t be sitting in front of him waiting for him to push you away too often in real matches.
I also added a notation on which kunais are unsafe if not timed perfectly. This info is missing for most characters though. This will be fixed eventually. Again, any help is greatly appreciated.
New unblockable discovered:
[media=youtube]MASNh6VC7UM[/media]
Works on **Bipson, Honda, Sakura. **Seems to be corner only.
Note: I didn’t do any testing. This guy did.
okay this is good ive been looking for sjc tips on this thread for the last year its good were finally going into the dashes. any advice on the s.hk > cd after b.mp?
Practice.
Also, keep in mind the timing is a lot faster than you think, if you’re accustomed to the lenient TC6 and TC10 xx SJC cd.
I suppose I’ll start documenting my safe jump guide progress here.
And instead of making a mess of a post, I’ll put my results in the clean and exportable Google docs: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=tYCwEa2kxGL7MWIChG_oF-A&pli=1#gid=3
Observations so far:
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whiffed b+MP timing is incredibly hard on the twins, with their stupid 4frame reversal. You have to hit the twins in the balls, as Air like to say it. Also in some cases I think I was able to do b+MP too early and then my j.HP would whiff? Not sure about this.
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Guile’s super must have gotten a startup nerf or something, but it cannot punish safe jumps, despite what the SRK wiki frame data says. Same deal with Dhalsim’s super.
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According to frame data, THawk’s U2 should be able to punish safe jumps (3f startup). But I’m guessing it only has a grab-able air hitbox, like Rose’s Soul Throw.
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Option select U2 seems to be a hit or miss on most characters’ backdashes, due to the stupid airborne frames and U2 not juggling.
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Option select jump back is an excellent way to punish Yang’s EX command dash. It’s not a guaranteed punish, since he can still block in time, but I’d say it’s pretty ambiguous since Yang turns around twice and your opponent will most likely not expect that kind of option select.
Remember to adjust timing for Cammy and Sagat who wake up 1frame later than the rest of the cast.
List of safe jumps: (tested working on Yun, so they must work on everybody safe jumpable)
Neckbreaker , b+MP , j.HP
EX Neckbreaker , forward dash , wait 1-2 frames , j.HP (I could not find a way to help with the timing)
Raida , MK.cd , SJ.HP
EX Raida , MK.cd , SJ.HP (same as regular raida)
U1 , forward dash , j.HP
Forward throw , cr.LP , nj.MK (you can use nj.HP, but it may whiff on certain characters, I think)
Back throw , wait couple frames (<10) , SJ.HP; I could not find a fast normal to whiff to help with the timing
Back throw , walk forward couple frames (<10) , j.HP
MK Tsumuji , st.MP , j.HP (note: a perfectly timed st.MP will make your safe jump too early, you will need to wait an extra frame or two before jumping; also note that MK Tsumuji knockdown is different from HK Tsumuji knockdown)
HK Tsumuji , wait couple frames , j.MK (I could not find a fast normal to help with the timing; also the spacing makes many jumpin options whiff if incorrectly timed)
EX Tsumuji , cr.LP , j.HP (this is the easiest setup imo, next to neckbreaker)
Sweep , throw , j.HP (actually I think this is the easiest setup, after you get used to it; remember to watch your spacing!)
Are there any untechable knockdowns that I’m missing?
In terms of difficulty imo:
Easy: sweep, EX tsumuji, neckbreaker
Medium: raida/ex raida, U1, forward throw, MK tsumuji, EX neckbreaker
Hard: Back throw, HK tsumuji
I’m thinking of making this a very short video and just focus on Yun, since if the setup works on him it’s almost guaranteed to work on everybody else safe jump-able anyways. Plus everybody hates Yun.
Edit: added sweep knockdown.
Edit2: found a very easy safe jump against 5f reversals:
EX neckbreaker , lk.CD , j.HP
I think that’s about as easy as it gets with Ibuki. Doesn’t work on Yun, and any other character with 4f reversals, but if you want to safe jump without worrying about messing up timing, then this is the way to go imo. Also it’s similar to her unblockable setup, and you can setup an ambiguous jumpin with mk.CD on most of the cast, so going by that it might just be her best knockdown.
Edit3: not exactly a safe jump, but a good mixup tool imo (only tested on Yun):
TC6 xx sj.HK
Either stuffs reversal dp or makes it whiff (HK dp). It’ll lose to crouching dp, and it’s not meaty so Yun can simply dash out, but if you mix in SJC CD and empty SJ then you can certainly make it useful.
Edit4: found a safe jump that uses a taunt!
Sweep , taunt 6 or 10 , wait extra frame or two , j.HP (if your timing is perfect, you might jump too early, hence the extra waiting)
I got the idea from an Ibuki player I once played that used taunt to time her setups. Either that or she was simply trolling me.
I think I might now have a reason to switch from taunt 1.
nice work,i’d love to see the vid.
I wonder if I should wait until the 23rd so I can make the vid with some alt costumes lol.
this info is too tasty to wait 12days imo 
i doubt ppl will think about costumes while watching it.