No. Unless they have an unrealistically fast dash or your timing the kunai wrong, they will not be able to punish you for your kunai. At best they’ll escape. The Daigo vs Momochi match. Daigo never once punished Momochi for it and Momochi punished Daigo the first time with Raida. Momochi didn’t even vortex Daigo much at all.
I though Momochi didn’t vortex Daigo because Daigo manage to break every attempt of this vortex, thanks to FADC, I really though that was THE answer that kill every attempt of Ibuki vortex, so I was wrong ?
Do you know how to vary which side you land on when vortexing?
No, I just do my kunai or lk cross up and fall behing the back of the man.
Learn how to land in front.
Land behind crossup
Land behind non crossup
Why is it usefull to land in front ?
Mixups are good.
And the FADC we were just talking about
So they don’t know which way to FADC.
So you are telling me that if they FADC toward me, I can do a new target combo in their dash and start the vortex again ? I learned how to land in front, so if the man FADC forward he’s dead, if he FADC back he managed to escape ? It’s 50:50, as if he decided to try to guess which way to guard the kunai.
Not exactly 50/50 since it’s a bit less ambiguous. But yes if they dash the wrong way they get sent back to the vortex.
I haven’t been around much lately and haven’t played Ibuki much, but I started to play her once again. I am going to post a few mixup options here. Do these WHEN you hit, NOT when they block
step 1 = TC4
step 2 = [(jab x st mk) OR (lk tsumiji x jab x st mk)]
OR [(lk tsumiji x forward dash x (throw OR hammer kick OR attack to beat OS) OR st mk x combo ender) OR (mk tsumiji TWO hits if you plan to cross up with HK CD OR HK tsumiji THREE hits if you don’t plan on crossing up with hk CD
step 3 = [mk CD (in front) OR hk (back) CD]
step 4 = [(TC4 OR lk x mk OR st lp x cr mp OR st mp x lk x mk) x ultra 2 OR super]
OR [(TC4 OR lk x mk OR st lp x cr mp OR st mp x st mk -> Combo ender or repeat step 2 or 3
1st note= Some of these combos does not work on all characters. My chart will say who they work on if you have it. You can completely skip step 2 all though I recommend against skipping it because its the tsumijis that really confuse people and thats what gives you the chance to do these types of mixups especially when they expect a knockdown. Also step two gives you significantly more dmg.
2nd Note= that IF you stall the input when you are canceling the previous move into MK OR HK tsumiji you will get a counter hit on any mashed attack or move that has no invincibilty frames so that they don’t mash attacks as an OS for when you do a CD, when they are getting hit. In addition you can choose to end with lk hien into super to stomp on their mashed efforts. If they are mashing an invincible move, and depending on what it is you can just probably block or dodge and punish.
If you haven’t started incorporating these tactics, then you should. It is a powerful vortex and does excellent dmg for just one guess.
^^^ so basically you are foregoing the untechable kd in favor of a reset?
u mostly i do it to reset to super from lk hien… on hit it catches people off guard more. and when it hits its usually a round ender since it had like 150-200 damage in front of it that i just reset from.
hmmm… though i will have to try the hk cd reset that you propose, i had tought about it but never really wanted to experiment with it… but now that SJ vortex isnt as good as it used to be, these ground resets may become seen more.
-dime
tl,dr so you use mk/hk cdash to reset. I do that all the time already. Except instead of mk, I use lk for the (theoretically?) shorter recovery. No use for mk cdash if it doesn’t cross up, just use lk.
Urgh, this has probably been answered before ITT but, I now know why everyone has started catching on to my vortex - I will always go for non-cross up ones. Reason? because it’s safe against dps. I know the cross up kunai must be safe as well, so can someone explain the timing/when to throw the kunai?
Edit: Just got it once in training mode. Woot.
Edit#2: Just disregard this post, I’ve got it down now and was stupid for not testing it fully earlier. It’s just if they do block it, i don’t feel like I have that much frame advantage.
hmmm, I still haven’t learned how to defend against Ibuki’s vortex(being that I main her and it’s pretty rare to fight against Ibukis on PSN) but I basically base Ibuki’s vortex on wake up time and that’s all. All other close up or crossing up kunai attempts will result in getting hit or thrown because apparently hitting anywhere over the opponent’s knee does not stun them long enough for Ibuki to do anything except for the mid range SJ kunai(thrown at peak) to the opponent’s back/shoulders but that’s hard to vary against players who move alot much like how you can get away with strongest CD against over defensive players.
That and perfectly timed kunais should beat almost all forms of reversals except for Gouken’s command counter. My friend finally moved on from a great Ryu to an semi good Akuma, I asked him if he could teleport out Ibuki’s vortex and he says that it’s not possible if it’s timed perfect(which isn’t hard after an untechable knock down). Untechable knock downs also gives Ibuki enough time to play the guessing game with her Vortex as well like going right up to the opponent then just before the last second that your opponent gets up, walk back then jump(non crossup) or super jump kunai(for crossup). So many varieties for her that even just crossing up with the in air TC is enough to screw around for those who hate the sight of Ibuki.
Been receiving hate messages or friend invites for I believe abusing her vortex…lol.
vortex timing and distancing after tsumiji and crouching roundhouse
I’m having trouble starting up the vortex after a crouching roundhouse or Tsumiji knockdown. I’m not sure how far away or how close i need to be to my opponent. Once i know the distance, i’m sure i’ll be able to time the kunai. I’m doing ok with the kunai timing after neckbreaker. vortex off neckbreaker is easier. I don’t have to move back or forward to get the right distance from my opponent. All I do is super jump then throw kunai with the correct timing. Oh, and distancing and timing from a forward throw will be helpful too.
I’ve started using Raida after a kunai cross-up to send people into the corner, then go at them from the corner. It seems to be helpful. People hate being crossed up in the corner. Yes you put yourself into the corner but you can almost always CD out of it or hit them with the vortex.
You have roughly 2 seconds before your opponent gets up from a non-tech knock down(sweep tsumuji, neck breaker, sweep and others), vary your distance with super jump, normal jump and kunai strengths. A lot of times where I know I won’t get close after specific wake ups(usually mid screen or closer), I go for a super jump mp kunai, at the right time, still cancels out many moves including shoryukens because it’s a meaty kunai.
As many mentioned, practice your vortex mix-ups, last second jump or super jump lp kunai makes a world of difference that will confuse your opponents. The reliable thing about meaty kunai are that they give you enough time not to get thrown or reversed(or was it countered).
Be wary that last second kunai may be open target for ultras opposed to 2 character spaced super jump vortex(relatively really safe, never really be hit except getting minor Ultra 1 hit from Guile) because the opponent will get a auto correct and invincible frames(or whatever causes the kunai not to hit)…
Ok so I have been working on adding a few more vortex options to Ibuki’s arsenal. Here are a few tricks I adapted from my Akuma and found they actually work rather well against characters that can be safe jumped. It would work better against more characters if you could beat out most reversals.
This first one is a safe jump vortex. Everyone knows (I hope) the safe jump set up. Just in case it is as follows. For instance Radia OS.
Time your jump so you hit your opponent on the first frame they stand up. Then
Jump MK (Late as possible) , F, DF, D, DB, B, DB+P HOLD
This is a useful set up against any character with a slow reversal. The Radio version punishes back dashes for several characters. I prefer the MK in the air because it is faster and creates more uncertainty which sets up the second option.
Empty jump with the same timing as a safe jump
Land, c.LK, cs.LP, MP, HP, Special cancel.
This is a mix up that is an extension of a safe jump. After training your foe to block the safe jump you can slip this one in. Since air attacks must be blocked high your foe will be blocking high to defend against the air attack, but you land instead and hit him low before he has a chance to recognize you didn’t use an air attack. c.LK can combo into the TC rather easily. It is a 2 frame link so it is perfectly reasonable and works against most characters I have tested it on so far. If your foe blocks you can cancel into a safer special or super jump cancel out.
also dont forget empty jump dp xx fadc> mixups… quite powerful, i like doing them when i do a wiffed crossup jumping fierce.kinda meter heavy though, best in round 2 or 3,obviously.
i state it cause i also got them from akumas vortex ie sweep> hk demon> wiff palm> dpxx fadc on block or throw.
more powerful with akuma, for obvious reasons… but still works with ibuki.
-dime