This is probably the worst strategy I have ever seen for MMM. Do you have any idea how much gas this costs? That’s like, impossible.
DTs? Yes because it’s not like the terran has scanning or anything. Unless he’s a complete noob, he’s not going to be surprised by void rays. He’ll obviously find out that’s what you’re going to do and prepare accordingly.
Void ray rush is pretty bad against terran. Marines can attack air, nuff said.
Been playing random, and I’ll have to agree that Zerg seems incomplete. It’s the only race that doesn’t scare me in any matchup (with the exception of PvZ on Kulas) and ZvT is broken in several places.
They’ll do something to Zerg, they kinda sorta admitted it yesterday in a blue post inside a zerg thread. And it’s not like a huge, gross imbalance, it’s just in need of some tweaks to the Zerg early game to make it more flexible/varied. End-game they’re still great imo.
You just, and I say ‘just’ like it’s an easy thing (sarcasm), have to think about a million things when playing zerg. You can’t be lazy and have to have five brains in one head.
Thats how I feel anyway, it is a game where you really have to think, even against VR scrubs. I find four to five games too exhausting sometimes.
Overall, and this is coming from a new guy, I feel zerg is pretty okay. I’ll have a lot of trouble against protoss in most situations but I feel thats just my lack of knowledge and experience. The game feels pretty balanced for the most part because there seems to be a counter for every unit for each race.
Void Rays are awesome against Terran actually, with 1 or 2 rays, you can break his wall outside of his range, and if he lowers his depots to come out and fight you, you just force field his ramp (getting a few of his units to pick off) and repeat. You don’t use the void rays as a mass win technique (though you can once you get about 6 into his base and charge them up if hes moved his foirce out), you use them as support for your 2-3 gateways to break into his base. It really isn’t a bad idea; White-Ra, for instance, goes gateway->Cyber Core-> Stargate -> Void Ray as an opening against terran. If they push against you too early, your void ray makes short work of their mauraders.
I have just had no luck with Robo Bay play against terran, I much prefer stargate play; with Zerg its the opposide, I prefer robo play to stargate
Do you have the exact build order or links to any replays for that? I’m struggling so much with Robo bay vs terran as well, I’m willing to experiment around.
I used void rays in my losses vs the terrans, but it was more towards the end when I knew I was pretty much lost, so out of desperation, I figured why not? I’ve found one useful tactic is misdirection. If their main army is camped by expo, and I have observers, I will attack their main with two void rays. Once they pull off their marines to attack void rays, I attack their expo with my main army. It worked kind of well, but since I had lost too many units earlier to their marauders I still lost the game. The principle still seems sound though.
That’s the thing though. This strat only works if the terran goes for a purely marauder rush. I almost never see those and see an equal mix of marines and marauders.
Ok I know this is all theory crafting. But are collosus worth it? Won’t they have vikings at that point? They’d be able to fly around and hit my collosus from behind.
Also collosus are slow. they can’t easily return to base to defend. What if while I’m attacking his main he does a drop in my main? He could simply park a few tanks and marauders in his main and deal more damage than me, whereas i’m using warpgates so most of my army is warping in outside my main base. it’ll be pretty defenseless.
edit: at this point im tempted to start playing as terran and see how other toss players counter me.
Day9 Daily #147 - White Ra PvT Strategy
Day[9] Daily #147 (First Part) - White-Ra Part 1: PvT Special Part 1 (the stream dies partway)
Day[9] Daily #147 (Second Part) - White-Ra Part 1: PvT Special Part 2 (the rest of the stream after the crash)
These are what I used. It’s not entirely fair to say that void rays only work if your opponent goes pure maurader; If you’re going for ONLY void rays, then yes absolutely. But when you’re coupling the void rays with Zealots (and add in charge), suddenly marines fall really fast as well. The idea is to limit your opponents options.
Vikings really do give Colossus a hard time, but if you see they’re getting vikings you need to make sure to keep your stalkers near your colossus (again, theory crafting).
Protoss is about having the perfect mix of units, and I have a hard time actually knowing what that right mix is
In the replay pack I posted a few pages back, you can see the last replay where I put it to use against a plat terran and managed to win
Void rays vs Terran are ok but risky. You do realize those replays are old and when void rays had more range. The reason this build is risky is once they hold off your void rays with marines, Terran can expand/threaten your expansion/push you quite easily and you will be super far behind in economy/tech. The build rapes people plat and under but once you get to diamond you realize that you will be behind drastically if Terran prepares for this. There’s a reason top Protoss players rarely go Void rays against Terran. If the Terran goes 1-1-1 you are absolutely screwed ie he can get an early viking/or get a cloaked banshee in your mineral line.
The key to PvT is the early robo bay. It allows you to stop an early MM push with sentries + gateway units + an immortal or 2 as well as scout and see what you need to do. If they go bio, tech to colossus then high templars. You could also go blink stalkers/warp prism harass off of this as well.
Even though I don’t like void ray rush, I can see it becoming viable because Terrans are starting to abuse banshee/bio against Protoss now and it surprisingly works (check out TLO’s IEM match against White Ra). I’ve been toying around with a fast stargate on 4 player maps to phoenixes in place of observers and it’s been working alright. Fast robo is still the best/consistent opener though.
Void rays vs Terran are ok but risky. You do realize those replays are old and when void rays had more range. The reason this build is risky is once they hold off your void rays with marines, Terran can expand/threaten your expansion/push you quite easily and you will be super far behind in economy/tech. The build rapes people plat and under but once you get to diamond you realize that you will be behind drastically if Terran prepares for this. There’s a reason top Protoss players rarely go Void rays against Terran. If the Terran goes 1-1-1 you are absolutely screwed ie he can get an early viking/or get a cloaked banshee in your mineral line.
The key to PvT is the early robo bay. It allows you to stop an early MM push with sentries + gateway units + an immortal or 2 as well as scout and see what you need to do. If they go bio, tech to colossus then high templars. You could also go blink stalkers/warp prism harass off of this as well.
Even though I don’t like void ray rush, I can see it becoming viable because Terrans are starting to abuse banshee/bio against Protoss now and it surprisingly works (check out TLO’s IEM match against White Ra). I’ve been toying around with a fast stargate on 4 player maps to phoenixes in place of observers and it’s been working alright. Fast robo is still the best/consistent opener though.
This matchup is just stupid hard though. Terran has so many different effective openers it’s ridiculous.
Zerg just don’t have that “oh shit unit” and all their units are squishy as fuck, even the ultralisk. I hate how I have no air defense until I mutate to a lair while toss can get it easy with stalkers and terrans just get it right off the bat with marines. The only time I been able to do anything is try to sneak a mass drop of either zerglings/banelings into their economy or fling a SHITLOAD of infested terrans. But terran has way to many options with either planteary defense for economy protection or scans for aggressive pushes.
I tried to find some zerg players on youtube or SC replays to see what I can improve on but even some of the best players eat cheese. Hell supposedly the best zerg player “Idra” gets cheesed and shat on all the time but is considered the best? Not to mention he ragequits all the time so I don’t know if I could use him as a good example to learn stuff from.
Also where the fuck is my “cliff jumper” Zerg unit? Toss have it with the Colossi and Terran have it with Reapers.
So theory crafting question, how do you beat a zerg who fast expands and goes zergling, spine crawlers, and then mutas?
If I blink into his base with stalkers he kills me with lings. if i attack his expo, his spine crawlers and zerglings will inflict heavy loses on me. if i keep sitting outside his base, his mutas will tear a hole in my main. if any stalkers are left out in the open his movement speed upgraded lings will surround and kill them.
should i just expand myself if i see he has invested lots of money in spine crawlers? should i build void rays? phoenixes?
I just got this game recently. I’ve never played the original SC so I’m pretty much learning from scratch… and it’s a bit overwhelming. A friend of mine did introduce me to WC3:TFT and taught me how to use hotkeys and build orders so I do have some basic RTS knowledge, I suppose.
I’ve been playing campaign mode and sometimes Versus AI, where I would team myself with an “Insane” CPU fighting against 2 medium CPUs. I wouldn’t do anything though… I’d just watch my CPU teammate build stuff and I would study the order. I eventually get lost with all the upgrades, though. :xeye:
Man. I have a lot to learn and work on.
I like phoenixes versus zerg; when I use them, I try to get about 5-6, and then I go into his mineral line and destroy as many workers as I can before he can catch on. Eventually they’ll put up spores to deter me, but then that just means my phoenixes are good for scouting and sniping all his overlords. Plus when its battle time you can lift units to help out by evening the numbers. The key is to cause a lot of damage to those workers before he expects it.
If he continues with mutas, phoenixes can micro and move/shoot at the max range and give them huge headaches, plus since they’re light the phoenixes get bonus damage.
As far as lings, I find the right mix of Zealots + Stalkers does wonders. Make sure to get the +1 damage upgrade, with the upgrade zealots can 2 shots lings, without its 3 attacks, which is a huge difference. Get your zealots taking the damage and your stalkers dishing it out and you should be good. Again its hard because Toss has to rely on the perfect mix of units instead of just saying “go mass X” as a counter
Damn, I had no idea that Day9 was a Clockwork player in MvC2.
I haven’t been able to try this before but can phoenix pick up tanks in siege mode?
I also like seeing older units in the campaign that aren’t in multiplayer like the scout when I played the laser cannon mission against the protoss. It’s like Blizzard foreshadowing how much they’re going to screw us over by making us pay for units that are basically already in the game.
in 3v3 or 4v4 anything is possible
I believe that making the hatchery cost $275 or $250 will aid in “the swarm” attack for the zerg, and give them a nice offensive boost. Some other things, but can’t think of it right now…