[media=youtube]yBQApjw2RT0[/media]
It’s a traditional tactic. He’s right. Canons are the counter build at the beginning. You have to know that he is going for that though, because if you dont scout and assume he’s doing this, then it’s random on what he might change in his build order. If you listen to the vid, the dude states that Immortals are good against roaches.
It’s an old video though. I don’t know what has changed with the new patches.
lol interesting. an SC2 thread on SRK. gotta admit im a bigger fan of SC2 than fighting games
NA
FortyFs.826 - Diamond Terran
Yeah, that’s actually the 7 Roach Rush I believe, which was really strong and for a long time hard to stop. But once you’ve seen it a few times and know what to do, it’s not that hard to deal with it. Irennicus killed me plenty of times with it though! The biggest weakness is that you usually skip lings which make it hard to hide what you’re doing, as you can’t kill scouts.
However, this new version only gets 3 roaches, and the rest speedlings. It comes out a bit faster and it actually seems more deadly, since the lings can get in and snipe workers really fast with the 3 roaches providing cover fire. I haven’t found a video on it yet but I’ll see if I can scrounge one up, it should be in the replay I posted. Roaches + Speedlings are a nightmare that early, as opposed to just 7 roaches and all your drones.
Also ggs last night to ThatGuy and Irennicus, we played the 5 new 1v1 maps that are being tested on the test server and had some fun games. Seriously that one map is just like Lost Temple 2.0 except with no cliffs at your natural. The one with the weird gap outside your natural seems pretty cool, and the one with the tiniest main ever was basically asking to be forge fast expanded by me
The new maps are pretty eh. A couple of them really need the fixed spawn locations like Shakuras in order to be viable.
Haven’t played this game in a while. Nice to see they are coming out with interesting little cheeses such as this speedling/roach thing. Are cannons the best response? If he is stupid he will commit at the ramp and you can force field his retreat. But what if he just pokes with one speedling, and pulls back instead? Sure his econ is in the shitter, but so is yours. A forge and a cannon are 300 minerals in the sink. Since he has more units than you he can contain and plop down an expo as well.
I can see this build working well on gay maps like steppes of war, which thank god they are getting rid of in the GSL.
It’s not really a cheese build and it shouldn’t be done all in imo. It is possible for cannons to stop or delay it but if he gets enough roaches its over basically. The counter to cannons is of course quick hydra drops before 13 minish colossi. Just by pass the cannons and rape. The only way I see it as an all in is if he for some reason wants to pull all his drones to help lol. It’s just a pressure build against toss.
Heres an image that shows it pretty clearly, at 5:30 Z gets 3 roaches and 16 SPEEDlings at the ramp of toss. Typically, toss in this situation gets 1 zealot and then 1 sentry/stalker with a walloff to feel safe, but with the roaches this isn’t safe at all as the zealot dies. Warpgate isn’t done yet (close timing on actually getting warpgate done but it is supposed to hit BEFORE this) so there isn’t typically enough sentries to delay it forever. Overlord scout gives vision for the roaches to pick off the zealot. As soon as the forcefields are done, so is toss.
Unless toss gets like a 10 gate and chronoboosts out sentries to delay for warpgate timing, he has to get cannons. And if zerg notices the cannons, they can shift gears and expand, yes. But even though they force you into a forge + some cannons, they’re on like 14 drones where toss should be cutting around 20 something. You can chrono out and then expand, putting you at theoretically near even economy.
It puts toss on the back foot if it works, for sure. Its a really good alternate to fast expand builds that doesn’t have to be all in, but really cuts early economy for some pressure.
I don’t know what the timing on a 7RR or 5RR actually is or how it compares to this though, this seems faster from memory. It definitely hits before a 4 gate gets rolling
I haven’t played SC2 in over two weeks!!! I am hella rusty and just want to play some games for fun.
i’m trying to learn toss. not that i’m done w/ zerg, but i’m just getting a little bored only playing them. toss is weird is all i can say. i’ve been trying to learn the 4gate strat, but i’m not having an easy time pulling it off 
Haha, yeah I did the opposite, picked up Z when I felt P was getting stale. Its not a bad idea to learn the other races at all. Really 4 gate is simple
10 gate
chrono 2 probes
12 gas, 3 in as soon as its done
chrono 2 probes
14 cyber core
go to 19/20 probes
add 3 gateways as soon as you can afford it
keep chrono boosting warp gate research
send out a probe to proxy pylon just before its time to hit
send out your 3 units, + warp cycle at the proxy = gg
aim for like 6ish minutes. Takes some practice though. Theres also different variations (2 gas, no gas, etc)
Last night they picked the GSL groups for code S. It was awesome, instead of random, they let people pick groups. Top 8 got seeded into different groups (Code A - H), then they got to pick whoever they wanted in their group. The next round, that person picks the next, and so on until all groups are filled
So here are your groups:
Seriously, July Zerg picked MC to go along with MVP in his group to prove himself. Balls of fucking steel
Afterwards, they had the GSTL, the team league. The format is pretty cool, you should check it out. Since I didnt watch BW Leagues its new to me at least!
GSTL Results
ST-Gogoboogie, aka squirtle, 4-0’d all of fOu. Leenock wasn’t able to make it, and Choya was DQs for his paper-rock-scissors scandal. But still sad. They kept sending up T’s instead of mixing it up, terrible coaching decision, but they are the weakest team IMO.
Prime vs TSL- Prime had some big stars, but lost 4-1. Trickster being their only win, from Polt. After that TSL-Alive (yeah… who?) won 3 straight, even dismantling marine king. Good games
The new maps played out pretty awesome too!
Thanks for the advice. I’ve been trying 12 gate, cuz that’s what’s posted on the teamliquid site. Are there any good casters for toss out there?
Oh yeah, what’s the best way to stop early banshee harass as toss?
10 gate is only if you’re doing the super aggressive, this kills them or I lose 4 gate. 12 gate is standard opener, like 3 gate expand or 2 gate robo, etc.
For terran, make sure you scout after your first pylon on 9 supply. If you see a really early gas, expect banshees. You can gas steal the second gas if you want, but basically you need to go gateway, cyber, robo. Chrono out warpgate research, add a second gate, and get some stalkers behind your mineral line. Get an observer out to spot for cloaked banshees.
Alternatively you can get phoenix to really make sure they can’t get away, but robo and stargate on one base is too thin, they can transition into marine marauder and just steam roll you. Basically you want to do 3 gateways into expand, then get to colossus. But yeah, if you spot the early gas, you have to get an observer or you risk losing instantly to cloaked banshee.
My friend is director of strategic marketing, she said she had something new coming up. Whatever it is, I’ll let you guys know.
American GSL I hope, that would be awesome
Wow, so the GSTL is really good. Something about the team format really makes it intense. Also the Protoss players really showed their stuff this time, makes me want to play and use some of those cool Toss strategies in my own game. Im hoping that the team league for SC2 picks up and theres a lot more of them like there was in BW; I know GSL has a few each year so that might just have to be enough.
Although most of the teams just got steamrolled, it was nice to see the last 2 teams in it play REALLY well
gstl
IM takes it 5-4! IMMVP loses to Squirtle/gogoboogie in one of the most epic PvTs ever!
I think I didn’t give ST enough credit, I thought they were pretty janky but they surprised me. I hope a lot of these players on their teams make code A/S in the upcoming seasons
This was awesome.
Question: Think the GSL players ever look down at the keyboard?
yeah I’ve always felt the team league is more exciting than individual leagues. Much more on the line. Nothing like watching a whole team celebrating over an Ace win.
Yo, if anyone here isnt playing Brood War anymore, can you please let me have your original SC CD Key? My dad threw mine away on accident, and I really dont wanna go buy the battle chest for 20 dollars just for a few digits.
I doubt it. I never look at the keyboard when I play, so I don’t see why they would.