And DSP, I really don’t get your point. Why should I be concerned of how good or whatever Watson used to be? Unlike most people in this forum, I make up my mind AFTER reading a message, and not in the moment I read who’s posting.
I know little about the scene. But when a guy comes and says “I’m the best so bet it”, then you bet it and he runs away, I don’t care who he is (BTW; an old guy who plyas ST is not the pope or some government official).
Most people here sound like my grandma talling about any president “He may be stupid, but is our present and we gotta support him”.
What if Daigo comes here and tells you all to kill yourselves? We gotta respect it, right. Daigo is da truth!!!
Not trying to diss you or anything. Several people think my points are stupid or whatever, and I respect that, but not because “player X says so”, but because they have their logical reasons to think differently.
ain’t no cock sucking just hate to see some bitchy lil kid trash talk on the net when they’re prolly some 12 year old thats still sucking on they momma tits.
This thread has turned into a lot of senseless bashing. I don’t know Watson or much of ST and the players that encompass the game, but it seems that Watson was just trying to point out the faults of the game on PS1 because him and a couple of other seasoned arcade ST players who are used to playing the game after years of playing ON ARCADE found it different. I mean… this may seem odd to players who haven’t played the game as long, but think about it… what if a cvs2 player (such as myself), or mvc2 or whatever… were accustomed and tuned to a system in which the matchups and frames were familiar to you? Something as simple as a whiffed FP in a matchup could change your game entirely if you were a player. But whatever, this is all in the past… I really just think he was trying to make a thread in which these problems would be addressed so that if any version of the game… whether it be PS1/DC/Emulation of Arcade version were used… the players in next years Evolution tournament were not surprised by the sudden change in specific situations and matchups.
If you guys want to bash each other thats fine… but this isn’t a matter of new school vs old school, so I don’t think it should be taken there. Every player has their own learning process in which they go through on their way to coming up in “the scene”. Whats important is that the differences in each game are addressed so that each player has the same understanding of the version that is used in evolution. It really does make a difference in my opinion, however much that means to you.
I really have an unbiased opinion on this matter because I don’t play the game or care for it… but I think if something in a game is slightly changed it can mess up your matchup, especially if you’re accustomed to a specific matchup of characters and have understood it for YEARS longer than other players have. I mean its hard and almost impossible to put yourself in another player’s position on a subject relating to the game, but just try to understand their position on an issue before getting upset.
Now… not to take away from DSP or anyones final 8 performance. The players that made it to the top 8 were just simply better ON SATURDAY than the ones who didn’t make it. I enjoyed watching all your matches.
It seems that this game seems to be more influenced by what the players have to say about it, opposed to what SRK’s final decisions about it are. Example… asking NKI what version to play. His mistake was his mistake, to error is human and I wouldn’t hate on him just because of this. However, if emulation is the only way to play the true version of arcade ST without any problems, then that is the way that it should be played if its decided by the community … imo. Otherwise, if a player, regardless of his “OGness” or “New Schoolness” enters a tournament knowingly of the issues that a certain version contains whether it be arcade perfect or PS1… they should accept their wins and losses and the finals results at evolution.
Overall good points. But I do take issue with the above quote. We all have good and bad days when it comes to playing our best in games or with everyday things that emcompass our lives. Sure DSP and others were better on Saturday and its probably a safe bet to say that most of the time, players like Watson, Valle, Choi, etc. will own shit up. But is it really? Do we really know if DSP and others would really lose that bad on any other day? This years EVO proved 2 things. You don’t have to have tons of tournament experience to do well and you don’t have to be from Cali. There are many unknown players in the history of SF that would have fared well against any of the top known players. They just didnt have the time, resources or even care to enter.
Very good post. That is exactly why we had MvC2 on DC this past year instead of XBox, because of these very subtle differences. To say “you had XX amount of months to learn the subtle changes” is not really fair.
Its been a while but I have a question, and I ask this in all sincerity. Wasn’t the advent of making Evolution tournaments console instead of arcades because of the lack of arcade cabinets and resources that were demanded to run such a large scale tournament in only one weekend?
I think we have an obligation as a community to try and make every game in Evo as arcade perfect as possible. However, I don’t think we should just sit on our asses and have SRK do everything for us and take care of all the problems… its really on each of us to do our part.
You can stfu about what characters are a joke to master when your wins aren’t with the best character in the game and aren’t done with simple throwing. Sim has the advantage in almost any match up and is the easiest character to win a round with on nothing but throws. Braindead.
Back off of Vega foo! lol.
…but you had it right with Afrolegends. Dude was the spice of the tourney.
Now back to reading this wack thread.
Oh! and I agree that ST(and every other arcade release) should be done on arcade only. Ever since ST went console the rankings are totally different. I’m not talking about me, personally. I suck regardless of the version used since SF, as a whole, is a shadow in my memory at the moment due to lack of interest and play. However, aside from myself, the rankings are STILL all sorts of tripped out. It’s no surprise to me that Choi/Watson/Valle only lost to Gian’s team on the arcade version. Looks to me like nothing’s changed except the game(or format, whatever).
Evo has gotten bigger but, without new games on the horizon, SF is going downhill and has been since 2k3, IMNSHO. 3s, in all it’s random glory is the hottest sf and what else is coming? Evo is about to evolve into a tourney of zero SFs soon. Gotta do something. The heart of SF is barely beating. IF you asked me 10 years ago if I thought the scene would get this big, I would’ve said YES. I’m one of the few that knew SF tourneys were actually going somewhere. I even described how it should be and it’s pretty close to what it’s become aside from the new franchises added(which I was all for…until it meant knocking sf outta the way). Everyone, including old schoolers, thought that I was trippin’. Now that it’s obvious that I was right a decade ago, let me take this opportunity(since I don’t post much anymore) to predict again(as I also predicted that ST would get little respect as a console tourney). Fuck the Evo cards and all of the extra things expenses go to(like shitty sticks) and put everything into making set ups like CigarBob’s(again, the best part of Evo). Why not make every format doable? Instead of scrambling to find new versions or new formats to make things work(which, of course, they don’t), why not just solidify the formats. Fuck the changes.
So, since I still care about, what I see to be, the sf scene, I could give a fugg about the other fighters. They all have their own nationals. My prediction is clearly for the sf player. FUCKING ADD A3 BACK(I don’t give a fuck who plays it anymore. Evo holding it will encourage play whether it takes a year or 2 or not. Get your dicks outta your asses and realize this)! Make ALL arcade released SF games(3s/cvs2/a3/st) ARCADE format. While your at it, throw HF back in the mix as well. It shouldn’t take any resources since the first couple would get such a small turn out. In summation, bring some fucking INTEGRITY back to the tourneys. Ppl are already disrespecting the HUGE tourney of the year. Put your efforts where they belong first. As I said years ago “Quality over quantity.” If the quality and prestige is there, the numbers will grow ANYWAY. “Hello? McFuckingFly’s?”
Seriously, ppl see numbers and, while it’s great to see, ppl are clearing missing out on the things that made SF special.
I said SF wasn’t going to die years ago when even Watson thought it would. Now, it’s so close to being another geek’s video game event that it’s almost strange to realize that this is what SF is turning into. “Evolution?” Weak. Shit evolved into weaker and less-respected shit.
Sorry, DSP. Good shit at Evo. Unfortunately, your placing(highest US player) is viewed as less than great by many simply because the effort wasn’t made to maintain the integrity of the tournament(ARCADE!!! Mcfly? Cabinet set up? Hello?). It isn’t your fault and I don’t have doubt that you could’ve done the same on arcade.
It’s strange. The bigger evo has gotten, the less I’ve wanted to play. The tourneys mean less and are almost on par with winning a Mario tourney.
Seriously, Evo should’ve been De-evo. The attitude of everything has gone from one of intense competition to one of geeky fandom. It’s gone from being prestigious to being kinda cool.
This thread is just another showing that what I said long ago would happen and now SF, as “I” know it, is on it’s last leg…AND for no good reason other than some folks just never got SF and just happened to surround their lives with it(speculation). Sadly, I still don’t think ANYone is getting it even after comments like “CigarBob’s set-up was the best thing about Evo!”
Fucking get a clue dickheads. SF is more than any of your egos. Fucking murderers.
Peace and love to SF, it was nice to be there the whole way but, all good things come to an end…when motherfuckers don’t want to listen until years later.
I gree with Apoc but at the same time I’m at a loss to see how we can keep truly arcade versions of all of the games at EVO and still have enough time and stations to get it done in respectable time. I am all for having the true arcade versions, but even if we build 15 Cigarbob cabs, you’re talking about massive time, manpower, and storage space to do it. On top of that, EVERY fucking game is on a different system…Naomi for CvS2 and MvC2, CPS-3 for 3s, and CPS-2 for HF and ST (and Alpha 3, XSF, etc). You are talking about putting so much money into buying all of those game boards and systems and then somehow making cabinets that are interchangeable with ALL the systems, which Cigarbob’s cab isn’t even capable of.
I was the major proponent for the “all-arcade” movement back in 2k3 when everything went to console, and I took a LOT of shit for it. But now, all of a sudden, the same people that were calling me an asshole that wasn’t open to change are now saying that Console ST at EVO meant nothing this year because it was on PS1. Maybe they aren’t saying it directly, but all this bitching and complaining about differences…some of which NKI has already said are blatantly untrue…is very disrespectful to the people who placed. You may not directly say to our faces that we got lucky because it was on console, but when you complain enough you still leave that impression.
Personally, I don’t give a crap either way. I’ll play on anything and I’m just tired of the excuses. Real players adapt and win on any version, on any controls, under any circumstances. Justin Wong was the undisputed champion of MvC2 for how many years? Do you think he was used to the diffs in DC-arcade versions? Or the WIDE range of controls he played on at arcades all across the country? But he still fucking won and that’s what makes a true champion. When he lost to Sanford at ECC, he didnt complain about controls or make excuses, and he didn’t come on SRK after EVO complaining about DC differences. He’s not that kind of guy, and he takes his losses and walks away.
Bottom line is, nobody thinks the OG ST players suck and everyone respects them. Is it odd that Watson, Choi, and others got peaced out before top 8? Sure. But change happens. Everyone knows there are slight differences between console and arcade versions, but we’ve learned to accept them. Why? Because there is no future with arcade machines anymore. The cost and time consumption for using dedicated arcade machines is just not practical anymore for the size that tournaments have grown. By using consoles we can quickly and effectively switch between games with little to no hassle. If anything, instead of complaining about minor differences in games and demanding unrealistic solutions, why don’t we work to get the actual playing areas set up better? Number the stations? Get more room for casual play? Get music and intros for top 8 players? There are lots of things we CAN effectively do to make the tournaments better.
If you’re not a part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. Stop complaining and start giving ideas on how to realistically better the tournament. If not, if you think you can run your own successful, large-scale, all-arcade tournament, DO IT! By all means, we will all be grateful. But if you’re not going to do it, don’t talk!
And one other thing. If anyone has issue with my placing at EVO, stop hiding it. I will play anyone I beat at EVO at any time on any version of ST. Just say the word. I have always backed up my shit and everyone knows that.
Yeah I agree with Apoc. Just go back to square one. Forget all the extra things like hats and wristbands and focus everything on games/dvd footage/tourny setup.
I didn’t go to evo, but when I started hearing about all the random problems about pools and MLG taking over on the weekend. It sounded really shitty and I was glad I didn’t go.
From what i’ve heard from asking around, alot of people liked Cigarbobs cab and that it was a 100% arcade quality setup(aside from not having a big monitor).
Also I just thought of something, it’s not like the evo staff can just say “Hey move your gamers over” to the MLG staff because well, they were sponsoring it. So it was a matter of being in a bad position at the worst time. But I agree that SRK players being screwed over for the weekend with playing in 1/4 of the room was just wrong.
Best thing to do IMO is to start things off from square one and works thing out as simple as possible.
For example, you guys need X amount of room for X amount of people/setups. Then you organize a small idea of what you’re looking for, etc.
I know it sounds much simpler on paper than it really is, im very aware of that. I’m just throwing ideas into the hat. It’s just that I notice that EVO seems to have these weird changes that seem to make the quality of the experience worse.
The way people talk on here you would have thought that the line for cigarbobs cab was 200 ppl long, with everyone abandoning the consoles and TVs to get a glimpse of ‘real SF’. That is simply not true, it was the highlight for a # of people who really wanted to see arcade ST/A3/XSF, and the majority of players went about their own business elsewhere.
I think we need to look at the situation before just saying that we NEED all these cabs and arcade boards, it is certainly not the solution for everyone, just like console isn’t going to be the solution for the older SF games.
It’s probably true that some games just can’t be reflected properly on console, IMO this group includes HF thru A3. The newer games are primarly popular because of their console releases (even the ones that also have arcade releases), so they should stay console: (AE,3s,CvS2,MvC2,CFJ,etc…). So IMO if we can get a group to just handle the arcade games, and evo can continue focusing on the mainstream console games, will get the best of both.
Logistically there are a lot more things that need to be worked out, I can’t see getting a ton of setups for the arcade events, so they may need to be capped based on the equipment available. I also worry that we will be running many games at the same time, that was a problem at this years evo and it held up everyone’s pool to find people. If we have to run arcade events and console ones at the same time we’re just reintroducing the problem again. So this is far from a done deal, but i think it’s a more reasonable solution than just ignoring the console players or the arcade players.
I’m not sure but if you could get the specs (blueprints) of CB cab, it might be feasable to hire a furniture making company to make a couple more of these cabs. How you’d put up the costs I’m not sure. Perhaps some sort of an advertising deal will decrease the bill. increasing premium membership fees, and those willing to donate.
Get in talks with other major tournament events and see if the holders of the tournaments wouldn’t mind setting aside some prize money or something to help SRK purchase these cabs for the good of all tournaments.
With a group of professionals, it shouldn’t take that as long to build the cabs. Perhaps after its finished, you can get in talks with some of the local arcades and rent out the cabs to them. So you could afford to buy more cabs.
Firstly, let me apologize for my rant. I was a little…uh…yeah. Sorry for being so incoherent.
Back on track, my problem is that folks think it’s ok to cut corners. One thing that would really help is if we all registered online, paid. Tom noted that, this year, it helped out considerably. If there could be a registration organized so that all entrants are guaranteed and accounted for before evo, the tourneys could be organized in such a way that players wouldn’t be held up due to their opponents playing in other events. It’d take some doing but I believe it’s possible.
I don’t think anyone has a problem with cvs2 and mvc2 being on DC. However, I still believe there needs to be a standard set up and, as convenient as it is for organizers, this playing on the floor crap is…well, crap. Designate measurements for an official standard in competition. It’s such a joke seeing folks clearing be caught and getting away with a win because some bs happened due to stick movement. I fail to understand why this issue has been addressed since 2k3 when it was evident that a lot of bs was occuring. 3 years of PLENTY of bs wins and losses and nothing? Wtf? How is THIS not important?
3s would be difficult, especially without cps3 emulation. XBoxes handle A3, HF, and ST just fine, don’t they? So, the only problem is 3s? SHIT! That’s better than the whole tourney being watered down, imo. Not to be a dick but, I can accept one game being less than arcade if the effort was made for the others.
I’m not saying any of this is easy so, before I go through more of this thread(which I suppose was just about ST to begin with…or whatever, heheh) understand, fellas, that I think it’s worth OPENLY discussing with the community every damn day until a solution is found. Of course the answer isn’t a simple one or the problem would be remedied. The problem I can’t stand is that ppl accept wack shit in order to make the event happen. Fuck that! That’s a big problem. Actively seeking a solution to these things instead of constantly hearing reasons as to why it can’t be done would be nice to see. Quite frankly, since other games have been added to Evo, it’s still insulting that good SF games get dissed. Keep it real! SF is the root of all of this tourney madness. Quit fucking with the foundation, feel me? No fucking voting. Just add them into the mix. The voting was bs this year. No game made it? I tend to think that the vote was little more than a way to blame the players for certain tourneys not happening. Listen, the fact that a vote was held implies that A3 COULD HAVE been made to happen. 100 paid entries? Get the fuck off? Evo exclusion killed A3. Plain and simple. I say rectify the wrong doing and announce A3. If it can be done and only 20-30 ppl enter, who cares??? It will be a damn quick tourney without needing too many resources. What’s the excuse now? Ppl won’t play? That can only help it run more smoothly. Ppl stopped playing A3 because excluding it from the spotlight(Evo) pretty much declared it dead. And before anyone trips and thinks that I’m merely biased towards games that I play, think again. I don’t play ANYTHING. I can count the hours I put into actually playing this past year on ONE hand, most likely, if I could remember. I’m not biased toward A3. I am biased toward SF and damn it, SRK should be too! Wtf!?
With Xboxes in effect, there is no reason that the decision to include A3 can’t be made now. That would be a step in the right direction. Heck, HF AND A3 could be done in less time than any other tournament, I would think.
sigh I just want to see a step back into the hardcore SF of old. This watered down console bs is depressing. The SF arena should NOT be the floor.
…back to reading this thread.
um…btw, has anyone realized that Watson’s got a Deejay issue going on? lol
-I really should delete that last post. Sorry for being a dick yall.
I notice alot of people talk specifically about CB’s cab, and then counter arguments based on CB’s cab(too expensive, etc.) Its not like we need to have switchable panels, not like we need to have art painstakingly matched out so that it fits together with either config, dont need all the bazillions of extras that CB put on to make his cab not only functional but beautiful, we dont even really need shelves. Simply put, we need Not-Terrible-Looking cab, arcade controls, and for it to be solid. It’s something that shouldnt be that hard at all, as a similar design to his cabinet could probably fit into a fairly standard design plan, and I’ll bet someone who wants to help SRK knows someone who’s in woodworking or something that could get a deal. I think thats the best idea, looking into getting x amount of fairly basic cabs at CBs cabs height(perfect for sitting) put 360’s and comp buttons in them, and use those for evo. If we cant get enough to satisfy requirements for pool play for all games(which is unlikely) play the console games like this year for the pools, stagger the semis so all games get cabinet love.
Now, another problem also exists, that is the Xbox for emulatable games. Though emulation is legal, programs and files that use the Xbox SDK are not. To use any Xbox progs, you must use a hacked bios, M$ does not like those and could choose to make a fuss. That being said, I believe there are suitable Linux emus that can run the needed games, Linux can be run from an Xbox legally. The reason for using Linux Xboxes instead of PCs is because of cost effectiveness. building a similar comp to an xbox will generally run more. This would have to be confirmed, but its a framework for something that should work.
i work construction for my stepfather if i could get plans of the cigarbob setup i might be able to make 1 or 2
i can do the wiring and shit to i did 3 years of computer\electronics in high school and make my own sticks and what not so
but an overall schematic of the cabinet and wiring would be very much apreciated
Apoc: Let’s just say that I don’t agree with very much of what you said at all, but I can at least understand where you’re coming from. One issue though…
I’ve seen you talk before about how SF wasn’t geeky and now Evo is making it so, etc. Simply put, I don’t think this is a bad thing. Why so?
Just look at the culture. Computers are becoming an increasingly important part of daily life. “Blog” has become a buzzword in the mainstream media. You have a band like Weezer, who absolutely never would have gotten big before the 90s. Napoleon Dynamite literally comes out of nowhere and is a big hit. Anime is pretty much the norm for Saturday morning cartoons, and is increasing in popularity among other age groups.
And look at what’s happened with poker. The successful professionals are mostly college graduates or people who are easily smart enough to graduate from college. The younger generation that’s coming up now almost entirely consists of people who got their start in online play, and most of them still spend much of their time on internet poker. Many good players will tell you that tournament poker is at least 70% math, or somewhere in that range, and there are some who win with a style based entirely on math and rational thought rather than any special reading ability. And this game is now beating MLB and the NBA in the TV ratings.
Simply put, it seems like our culture is becoming increasingly geeky overall, and this trend won’t stop anytime soon. And as this happens, there’ll be more of an audience for video game tournaments.
Sure, you and the OGs you knew may not have fallen into this category, but I am almost positive that you are the exception rather than the rule. Just take one look at this forum…SF is still a video game, and video games have always been a geeky activity. Thus, the geeks will be the core audience for events like Evo. End of story.
run the shit through mame on modded x-boxes… jesus it really isnt that hard, just ask capcom for the rights to do so, or just have cigar bob there with his cps2 version with him.