not sure what you’re seeing in FB. I still find that FB comes with a lot of commitment and it’s relatively risky. I mainly use it for footsies now (throwing it just out of c.hk range) instead of zoning as it should be. Also HP srk seems to trade alot, example: Dudley’s j.hk. Tatsu is just tatsu.
Maybe I’m whining but am I missing something? Daigo please show me your new top tier ryu technology.
you shouldn’t get cornered by guiles or balrogs (unless you just got hit by a super/ultra). if you do, you aren’t playing the matchup right.
I don’t think many of you guys actually understand Ryu’s matchups. No, this isn’t to offend you. It’s just that what most of you guys are saying is wrong.
I’m fairly sure that Ryu’s only A tier, or high tier for the latter.
Ultra is used more than Super is used. It only costs 2 bars and does more damage. Super is when you are desperate for damage and want a life lead after being basically unable to land your Ultra for some apparent reason.
Ryu vs Yun was 4.5 - 5.5 in Yun’s favor in AE or an even matchup. I’m almost certain that it’s in ryu’s favor, whether it be 5.5 - 4.5 or 6 - 4. Yun can’t get in with his shoulders (this includes the ex one) as easily. No more ex lunge unless he’s desperate to get in at -1 on block (this of course, can be stuffed by fireballs alone). His divekick’s been nerfed. He’s still free somewhat free on wakeup. And plus, Ryu’s fireballs do more damage now.
Ryu vs Barlog has always been 5 - 5. It’s not going to really change. Barlog’s got a headbutt damage buff and some other minor alternations. But this will remain even. Maybe 4.75 - 5.25 when he gets Ultra.
Ryu vs Bison has also, always been a 5 - 5 matchup. It’s the same thing when he gets Ultra. Though, it’s just that Bison isn’t free on wakeup. He did get buffed, so I’m just going to assume it’s 4.5 - 5.5 in Bison’s favor.
Ryu vs Guile has been a messed up matchup in super. It was probably 3.5 - 6.5 in Guile’s favor when he got ultra 2. Right now, ever since ae, he’s been buffed and got his air throw + some damage back. Though, he hasn’t gotten his sonic boom meter back, so it won’t be as bad. Probably 4 - 6 in AE 2012.
Ryu vs Rose is probably 4 - 6 in Rose’s favor at the moment. She still has soul reflect and a bunch of other gay tools to beat out Ryu’s zoning. It just means you need to zone safely.
Ryu vs Dhalsim will still be 3 - 7 or possibly 3.5 - 6.5. It may be better though, because trading fireballs with limbs are in better favor with ryu now. Still, it’s one of those hopeless matchups.
Daigo says Ryu is now one of the three best characters in the game. Whether people agree or not, I love that to disagree someone’s got to claim better Ryu metagame knowledge than Daigo, now. He’s putting his money where his mouth is, and maining him too, so no one can claim he’s just saying it to be controversial.
If Daigo says Ryu is top three, I won’t argue against him. Ryu certainly is strong in AE2012. However, I also think that being “top three” doesn’t really mean “omg s tier”; It seems AE2012 has very little difference between tiers. Even the weaker characters have strong points.
I can agree with this, but still think the Balrog match up is bad, you can’t zone him, you can’t safe jump and his normals are faster than yours. The last tier list for super did show Bison and Balrog as being 4-6 match ups
I need help with gettin Ryu’s bnb down…need to upgrade to stick I guess…But I can see all his matches being winnable, in fact, I usually see exactly where I messed up when I lose with Ryu, not really being overwhelmed with hardly any character in the game, but you have to be on your A game. I still suck whenever someone rushes me down though, have to work on my auto-correct timing, and always getting a combo when I get a c.lk or c.lp, execution is off with Ryu after playing Ken so long.
I dunno if Ryu is top 3 though. Viper/Seth/Akuma can dominate so much more with the same skill level.
How can you not zone or safe-jump barlog?
Last time I checked, safe jumps work and crossups after a grab leaves him hopeless. Remember, he is a charge character and once you hit him with a crossup, he’ll lose his charge and lose his ability to ex dash punch or headbutt. Simliarily, you can zone him. Although it is difficult to do so once he gets super and ultra, it can still be done. All you need to do is keep within reasonable ranges and throw jabs and shorts to mixup your fireballs. Don’t forget to also mixup fireball speed. This match is very close, if not 5-5 right now. It mainly depends on two thing. Your ability to throw fireballs and your ability to out footsie barlog.
The thing about Bison is that it’s a different matchup. Bison wants to push you into the corner and/or come close to you to mash his clk. You can’t really do anything to it considering it’s a 3 frame short that has insane range. From there, he wants to chip you with scissor kicks in the corner, as always. Then, he has an ultra that punishes fireballs. It’s a different style of footsies. You would need to push bison into the corner and knock him down for some chances at doing damage while hoping that the OS you chose was the correct one to deal with one of his few million reversal options. Bison however, other than the clk, doesn’t have as great pokes as barlog does. Sure, he has a fast roundhouse with some great range, but he isn’t as terrifying as barlog in mid range. It’s not too difficult and will be as said before, heavily based on footsies and some mixups.
You can’t use super or AE tier list. They are totally different game. That’s y the rebalancing. Some tweaks seems really minor, but could change the matchup altogether.
Your match up seems to be on super.
I was making a comparison. Do you want me to specifically elaborate as to why certain matchups are set that way?
How will rose vs ryu be in Ryu’s favor? Rose’s soul reflect already shuts down most of ryu’s fireball game. If he uses ex fireball to get through, he’ll be burning meter that can be used to FADC. Plus, Rose has a get off me Ultra 2 and a projectile of her own. She can also absorb fireballs, allowing her to effectively build more meter than ryu. It’s been one of ryu’s worst matchups since super. There is no way in hell that this will shift to ryu’s favor. At best, you could imply that it’s an even matchup. However, even this is something that I disappear with. She basically has all the tools necessary to out zone ryu. The best you could do is try to get in to go for some mixups for some real damage. That’s it.
I’ve already specifically talked about why guile and barlog will be even or bad matchups for ryu.
Also, super, ae, and ae 2012 are not completely different games. They still use the same engines. It’s just that there are some character mods. Even in super, when ryu had cmk, the matchups were bad. What makes you say that it will be in ryu’s favor in 2012 when most of them have been actually buffed? Other than the dragon punch, the forward fierce, fireballs, and cmk hitbox, ryu didn’t really get any buffs. So essentially, we are playing with super ryu that’s been given a bit more damage. It simply isn’t enough to turn it into ryu’s favor.
Super Rose was nerfed badly in AE. In 2012 they buff her up bit in other area. That’s y I said you can’t use super or AE tier.
If you are trying to zone rose, you probably played wrong. Rose should be footsie and fb (as footsie tool) just outside cr.mk range. Make her drill you or slide to bait. High risk low reward game for her.
Rog have nothing but jab if the matchup is understood. Guile was too strong due to sb body hitbox and quick charge, but that disappear now. He can’t match your fb game and can be jumped on when sb. He may block which allows you to close in, but he cannot reversal, as he cannot srk. Cr.hp start up is too slow if you jump from close range, immediately when you see the boom. The air throw won’t help him from being out zoned and rushed down.
ryu is not super version. Far from it. In super, you only get 80 damage from opp far jump in due to 2 hit cr.mp srk and hp srk not anti-air.
Now, every combo ryu dish out is in the approximate range of min 200 damage.
You can’t jump in on ryu anymore. The air cross up tatsu range have increased compared to vanilla. Fb is good. You just need to know when to throw red fb and when not to throw any at all.
He also have some new tricks, such as red fb fadc hp srk or ultra if charc like fei/Cammy is trying to fa attack from far range.
Close st.hk is a major buff. No more easy back dash escape by charc such as chunli. It can also be used as frame trap, hit confirmable to combo, give good footsie push back range when blocked and is safe on block.
You understand that you have to first get in on rose by means of zoning right? You aren’t going to get in unless you start pressuring her with fireballs. That’s how it goes with all characters for ryu. Rose had a bullshit ultra 2 in super, so they basically took it out. It’s still going to be useful. Rog has a godlike sweep and a bunch of other far reaching normals, and he still has them today. SB hitbox? What are you smoking? It’s his meter gain that caused him to be godlike. That, and the damage he had on his normals. He doesn’t have his meter gain anymore, but ryu loses close range if he ever decides to throw a fireball. The gameplan remains the same thing: Push guile into the corner and try to get a knockdown. He still has ultra 2 and high damaging normals though. It isn’t going to be pushed into ryu’s favor. At best, it’s 5 - 5.
HP SRK isn’t even that good. It’s hitbox isn’t as good as Air says, and it’s only 4 frames invincible. It’s still more liable to use MP SRK to anti-air with. Ryu can still get jumped in on. Whenever you throw a bad fireball, you will get jumped in. Whenever you are knocked down, you can get safejumped. Even if he has a 3 frame reversal, he can get safejumped because there are setups that make his dp whiff.
I like the fireball counterhit followups, but that’s going to be corner only. It’s a buff, but a minor one nonetheless. Close St. HK. I don’t know about that. If it’s close standing, then how are you going to catch Chun’s backdash for good damage? You’d only get Far Standing Roundhouse…which can be replaced with sweep for another knockdown. I think it’ll be good for counterhit setups though, and nothing more than that, really. Ryu’s definitely strong, but not top tier material. Characters like Sagat and Viper are just too devastating; whether it be sagat’s health, fireballs, ultra 1 comeback potential, and godlike zoning or viper’s comeback potential, damage, mixups, and her ability to not have to tech many throws due to wakeup BK.
HP srk hitbox is nerfed vertically,but not horizontally. What this means is that you are to be more selective of using mp dp when opp are almost right above you, and hp version when the opponent are more diagonally above you. 4 frame invincibility is more than good enough. 3 frame startup = no safe jump.
Akuma got his hp dp nerfed horizontally, though like Ryu’s dp, it was not logged by capcom.
Almost all cross up can be dp on wake up (almost because I didn’t test all). Due to srk nerf, it is now harder. For example, to dp cammy’s cannon strike, you need to quick wake up 5 frame later to srk, rather than to mash auto correct like before. It’s a different game now.
Try jump in attack or cr.lp, then close st.hk and have chunli, vega or whoever backdash after the 1st attack and you will know what I meant.
I said red fb then fadc. It can be used anywhere in the screen.
Hitbox for sonic boom and quick charge, you need to read up more abt it. Guile far hp range was nerfed(v obvious). Again the range nerf was not logged.
Why do u need to zone rose to get to footsie range? Lol
I guess you could use your dp like that. It’s really selective though and you’d need good reactions to be able to pull off dp to dp. But yeah, I guess that could work. A 3 frame dp does mean that there are no safe jumps. However, have you forgotten that setups exist in this game? I’ll take akuma’s setup for example. Forward grab, dash once, clk, and then a Jumping attack is an unblockable on ryu. His DP will either whiff or get stuffed. There will always be setups whenever Ryu gets knocked down. Then there was akuma’s crossup tatsu, which could be slightly delayed to beat ryu’s DP. He can still get jumped on regardless of his 3 frame dp. It just gets him to escape most safe jumps.
Link me to an article on guile’s super to ae changes that mentions what you’ve said. All I recall is the sonic boom meter nerf.
You have to throw fireballs to nullify rose’s while slowly pushing her to the corner. Otherwise, you’ll be eating a bunch of chip while walking close to her.
didnt realize u posted lol. I should’ve known
lol how is guile going to back ryu in the corner? If you are letting guile back you in the corner you are doing something wrong.
Guile was 5-5. His foostie game isn’t much better than ryu’s and if he got cornered/tripped its a guess game for him.
Any character can get cornered, I corner people all the time. That is what throwing/air throwing does sometimes for example: EX Tatsu flies your opponent to the corner, you jump in or throw out a poke and get punished the corner switches to you. People don’t stand in the middle of the playing field, characters have movement. This is not a 5-5 match up. If you’re knocking down Guile with no effort and he’s not keeping you out then you’re not playing a very good one.
Don’t think you got my post. Guile CANNOT corner Ryu. Yes we got character movement. So what? We aren’t talking about movement. When you corner someone is when you force someone into the corner which Guile CAN’T do to Ryu.
It’s a 5/5 matchup. My opinion and experience of course.
Hm. I don’t think what you are saying makes sense. It’s more liable to say that a decent guile player can corner a scrubby ryu player. Guile CAN corner ryu. He has the physical ability to do so. All characters can corner all characters, even if it’s unlikely or nearly impossible to do so. It’s a 6 - 4 matchup. Ryu loses the the fireball war in mid range considering that he can randomly backfist you whenever he neutralizes your fireball. He can beat out your vertical jump and regular jumping attacks against him. The moment guile gets a life lead is the moment he can just stay in mid range or far range to continue turtling for the rest of the match. The only advantage is when ryu pushes him into the corner where he can seemingly get close enough to perform throw and frame trap mixups. Ryu may or may not win the fireball war from afar since guile’s meter gain has been nerfed in AE. It’s at least 4.5 - 5.5 in guile’s favor. Not to mention that ryu can’t even pressure well once he gets Ultra 2.
^ this is basically what I’m saying. Any character is capable of cornering you. If Ryu gets cornered his options are limited, you have to wait for your opponent to make a mistake.