To balance this game with minimum efforts:
Yun / Yang 800 hp
Fei long 900 ~ 950 hp
Dan 1050 hp
Juri 1000 hp
HP matters less on characters who tend to blow you out when they win.
tweaking health values by 50 or 100 points is basically just saying you can just take one less hit in footsies. It isn’t like you saw the health nerfs from vanilla make a huge impact on super. Sagat’s and Giefs hurt the most, but thats because their super designs learn to having to work for the bulk of a round to get you down in life and they aren’t mobile.
Overall it’s lazy when the character’s lack of tools is the issue, not their lack of health or the fact that they have too much.
No, HP also affects damage scaling. A 950 character dies much faster than a 1000 character. Making the twins have less HP means they have to be more cautious about reversals and punishes, which indirectly changes their offense game.
It doesn’t fix their fundamental design problems though. It’s lazy and bad game adjusting.
Also just did this because I was bored, blanka’s cr.mp vs. seth, akuma, gen.
Seth dies in 9, akuma dies in 10, and gen dies in 11. Thats a 1 poke difference between characters even when you factor in guts.
LOL that’s why I said it’s a fix with “minimum efforts”.
You know after releasing the PC version capcom probably won’t touch this game ever, and they definitely won’t patch it before EVO. The best they can do is to see if there’s too much bullshit going on in EVO then MAYBE they will decide to add a small patch. Regardless, next patch (if there is a patch) will be a quite half assed one without too much serious efforts. My best bet is a hp / damage tweak patch between EVO and PC release (both are in July).
I really, really, really hope Capcom rebalances AE if it ends up that the twins are just too much. I doubt that they are, but one of the main reasons the SF4 series has been going strong is because of its balance. Why throw that away so carelessly after 3 years of good times?
Again, I really doubt that they’re all that bad. They can’t be more dangerous than Akuma.
hmm, chocolate honda vs yun seems much better than strawberry honda.
I do not remember SF4 being that good with balance. Peopel complained about Vanilla-Sagat and Akuma.
Or SSF4, especially the characters below ‘mid-tiers’. Aside from Yang not even being as good as Yun, the twins just replace some of the top standing characters of the previous games.
And of course health matters. Everyone has won with 1 pixel of health left.
Although I would personally argue that they are definitely on the overbalanced side of things (and yes, better than Akuma), I’d really rather they keep one consistent standard between home and arcade. Whether people realize it or not, the separation between home and arcade has been an impediment to the international SF scene throughout the whole life cycle of SF4. They really need to end that shit, for better or for worse.
This is coming from someone who’s main was nerfed to arguably below tournament viable level. As much as I hate the entire balance philosophy in AE, I hate multiple tournament versions worse. It does suck that they fucked the game up so badly though.
I did actually mean that I hope they’d update both the arcade version and the home versions with a Yun/Yang and possibly Fei Long balance update, because unless I’m mistaken the arcade version is built to recieve online updates, but then again I’m not sure if that applies only to Japanese cabinets or every cabinet.
I’m guessing you’ve played/played against Yun or Yang in AE at least a couple of times to get to that conclusion.
On a scale of Vanilla Sagat to WW Guile, how broken are they? There’s only so much I can tell by watching videos.
i think you guys are getting bent out of shape over nothing.
in console super, the low tier chracters are in pretty bad shape. some barely functional. none of the top characters stood out as really S tier. in fact i could make legit arguments for 7 different characters being the best, and the tier right below them isnt too far off. but the bottom is really bad.
in AE capcom sems to have compressed most of the characters to high, and high mid tier. sure we have a couple really strong characters, but it isnt as tho the balance is completely fucked up. they just traded a shitty low tier for a strong high tier, and you get more useable characters than you had before. i think ono got misquoted when he said unbalanced on purpose. he probrablly meant to say we made some characters strong on purpose.
if your character got nerfed, it was most likely because he shitted on a bunch of the low tier characters. and when you really think about it, the nerfed characters didnt really get a bunch of new losing matchups. the numbers just got shifted so that instead of beating the shit out of the low tiers, they actually stand a chance
sim will lose to dive kick characters with or without the nerfs. they could buff sim and he would still lose to rufus. its a counter character design to sim. guile can still back up and chuck booms. he will still smash bison. and who exactly is cammy losing to now? japanese still seem to think she’s top 10
I agree with what you saying 100%. People are quick to judge what they don’t know. How do you know Fei Long wasn’t beast in Vanilla? Just because the hype was about Ryu, Akuma and Sagat doesn’t mean he wasn’t good, same goes for Vanilla Cammy. And a lot of people just assume a character is bad because they’re ‘lower’ on the tier lists. I bet a lot of you haven’t played a ‘lower’ tier character at high level.
I bet if Vanilla was left for another year or two players would find some amazing things with other characters. I remember at the start of Vanilla everyone thought Sagat was the best but later on realised that Akuma raped him for free and had matchups either in his favour or even.
Also, all this talk about wake up like that’s what makes a character good, if you’ve been knocked down (untechable or not) then you’re at a disadvantage, no matter how good your wake up is. If you have good fundamental defence, you can get out of most situations without having to mash a reversal. Another thing is, if Viper can freely use LP Burn Kick on wakeup, then you’re obviously doing something wrong on her wake up. Cody has an OS that beats ALL of Vipers wake up options and ALL of Fei Longs wake up options (is their wake up still great? Or does them all being beaten by one OS make it bad?).
It’s much scarier to jump on Ryus wake up than it is to jump on Vipers. Ryu’s DP can auto correct and CAN’T be safe jumped, Viper’s can. That alone is enough to end the debate about whos wake up is better.
@ Sharin - the comment you made about Fei Long being a problem is partly true. Fei Long beats a lot of the top tier characters but he goes even or loses to some of the lower tier characters, not to mention turtle characters giving him trouble. Cody/Fei is a 5/5 matchup and so is Guy/Fei in Super. In AE, the matchup is even more even for both characters because of the buffs they received. There’re also universal strategies against Fei, similar to how there’re universal strategies against Rufus.
I think players should actually give the game time before saying “Cammy is absolutely shit now”, “Yun is so broken” blah! If you give the game time, you might find that you’re opinions were completely wrong or strategies against certain characters etc. Cammy isn’t a bad character at all, just because you can’t spam TKCS doesn’t mean she is bad. It just takes meter to do instant cannon strikes that’s all, the meaty cannon strikes on wake up work the same and she has LOADS more combos.
My point is, give it time before you conclude that “X character is broken” or “This game is ass” etc.
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but is there anywhere I can find a complete list of character changes in AE?
People have to stop with calling ssfiv “chocolate”…it’s stupid and makes no sense. Sfiv was nicknamed vanilla because it was plain. It took too long to say ‘street fighter four’, so the community coined ‘vanilla’, but since there’s only ONE version of ssfiv, why try and give it a stupid name when ‘super’ will suffice (console super is redundant)? AE is AE, and barring any drastic changes, i pray to the gods no one tries to coin ‘jubilee delight’ as the official moniker.
Vanilla sagat vs chocolate fei?! Seriously? Shit’s stupid.
Sorry, I just though I’d try and nip the stupidity in the bud before it spread.
“Vanilla” is a common term used to describe the original or default version of software. So in the case of SF4 vs SSF4 it made sense; an easy way to reference the original without any confusion. “Chocolate” is just another attempt for the FGC to have food references in its lingo. :razzy:
i get what you’re saying about the original and default being labeled as vanilla (btw, never heard of that term being used in terms of software), but prior to the release of ssfiv, it wasn’t called vanilla. it only picked up that nickname because in relation to super, vanilla was exactly that, plain and pale in comparison, with less options, features and characters. if it were called vanilla from the start, then your description would make sense, but it would also mean we knew for a fact that as soon as vanilla came out, that there would be a sequel that would be better. we didn’t know super was coming out, and so vanilla wasn’t vanilla until super was announced.
anyway, stop the ‘chocolate’ useage please, because in terms of flavor, chocolate is about as plain as vanilla, and vice versa. chocoloate isn’t an upgrade to vanilla and it doesn’t offer more flavor…it offers a different, singular flavor.
Yeah, this chocolate nickname is fucking stupid. One game is Super, the other is AE. Why is that so hard?
Because Chocolate is OP.
Reminds me of the KFC controversy. I’m surprised that had a controversy to begin with.
Im the only bloke that refers to sf4 as sf4 and not vanilla. So that chocolate thing when “super” is much easier to say pisses me off cartman voice