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Ok guys I think I finally sussed out Ibuki and Feurte match up.
Feurte:
Play full screen. The only thing feurte can touch you with is wall shenanigans but it’s perfectly readable at full screen. If he slides/runs, again fully re-actable at full screen. AA his wall jump (from memory, standing fierce, cr. fierce and air throw seem to be the main 3 you need but I’ll check again later to see if any others are viable or not) and back off. You just have to play like this the entire match.
At Guile’s usual sweet spot (3 training room squares) it’s too risky because of splash etc which can be done on reaction -even to SBs, so you limit most of Fuerte’s options simply by staying full screen. It’s OK for Guile because as long as he’s standing on his feet, that’s all that matters really.
Be super patient and don’t let up; if you have to give up some damage in favour of not getting knocked-down by running away, so be it 'cus Feurte will have to do something really risky to get any damage on Guile at full screen, especially if you have the life lead.
The draw back to this method is damage is going to be dealt in very, very small chunks, so you will need to be very patient and you can’t afford a mistake otherwise Feurte gets in and then gets his mix-up. You also run the risk of getting cornered if you’re not giving it full attention. But at least generally speaking you’re much safer than if you were to brawl with him or stay at usual sweet spot.
Ibuki:
It’s a similar case except it’s possible to get larger chunks of damage with much less risk (if she slides, you can get full punishment for example).
Also, you can take a few more risks in terms of staying in closer spaces for a lot longer because if she does happen to knock you down, it’s not a coin flip on blocking the kunai (you just have to keep your eye on it - tricky but once you do…)
Lastly, you don’t need to SB as much as you need to play safe and like the Feurte MU, it’s much easier to deal with her air shenanigans at full screen.
The draw back? Other than it’s boring to play and you risk getting cornered, nothing. Even if you do get cornered, you’re on the whole safer, you can take a few more risks and you get to deal more damage if she makes any mistakes (which she most likely will). Oh and Ibuki has less health than you to begin with. Happy hunting!
I know it’s not full-proof or particularly exciting but the aim is to win right?
Tbh vs both of these characters it is more like a guessing game.
There is not much you can do once you get knocked down. It is either you can guess the block direction / dash direction right or you will get stunned quite fast.
I have played quite a lot 4500+ PP El Fuerte and Ibuki players recently and most of the things on the paper don’t really work when you face smart Ibuki and El Fuerte players. FA dash is a good option on wake up vs both characters to absorb the first hit of the kunai / the first hit of that El Fuerte move (not sure what is it called) and to dash out, but even then there is a high risk to get hit. I have played vs ErdemTEC’s Ibuki about 60 games and he is considered the best Ibuki in Europe.
You know what I noticed? Try to stay grounded for most of the time and don’t throw SB too often when Ibuki is in her slide range. The best thing really is try to react with FK on anything except a special distance where it kinda looks like you can hit Ibuki and her Kunai with EX FK when she jumps in ( but can’t because your EX FK will get beaten) and don’t waste too many meter on EX SBs because you need the FADC FK once you get knocked down. From close range try to FA her slide / to react with sweep works as well IIRC. I am not very good at giving tips, but after so many games I noticed myself what I was kinda doing wrong and what works and what not.
Both MUs are annoying to play vs because of the guessing game on wake up.
Just got back from a tournament, came 2nd place. Lossed to a Fuerte player by a sliver of health. It went down the wire 3 matches each and final round. We then played a full 40 minutes non-stop Guile vs Fuerte in casuals. Learnt a few new things (some of the info is repeated or refers from previous post)
Full screen is THE way to go.
Jump back Round house is good as space clearing tool (much better than back dashing for example); it beats a lot of his aerial options, really useful on anticipation.
His slide is fully punishable.
Regarding AA’s:
St. Mk beats one of his wall splashes CLEAN; St. Mp beats his wall elbow CLEAN. Cr fierce hits CLEAN if you anticipate a splash after he does a block string; St. fierce trades (in your favour) or beats clean his wall splash; air throw works wonders but you have to read it correctly. Surprisingly, Heavy Flash kick is quite useful in AA’ing his wall splashes too because of it’s range.
For those who are risk averse/don’t use AAs, you can dodge his wall splash and simply cr. round house as a punishment. This is also useful if he anticipates an AA and does a shorter range splash (intentionally missing you and gaining space at the same time) - punish it with a sweep. (Heavy/EX FK also work really well)
Heavy and EX flash kick can ruin HIS spacing game - if you anticipate a run or a back dash, these will catch him out.
If he has no meter, harass him on wake-up with UDK combos.
Speaking of which, UDK will go over his U2 if he does it on wake-up; so more reason to harass him.
I recommend using U2 in this MU: it is a great wall splash punisher. Even if he hits you with wall splash, he will end up hitting the SH after.
To prevent getting cornered, either back throw his wall splash OR bait his tortilla throw with neutral jump air throw
As said in previous post try not to get greedy in the match-up cus that is when you will get knocked down and all your hard work will be ruined (that’s why I lost my matches against him). If you have to go for a trade AA, it’s fine - better that than risking something flashy and getting mixed-up to death.
Summary: I cannot stress this enough: play full screen and play patiently. Your AA’s will either trade in your favour or hit clean. Harass him on wake-up then back up full screen. Only SB from outside 3 training room squares and finally don’t get greedy: one guaranteed punish is better than 2/ 3 maybes.
Speaking of vortex characters… am I the only one who absolutely cannot deal with Abel? I’ve barely seen any Abels even online, let alone any good ones, but it looked rather rough. His tools seem rather decent for mobility and he can punish mistakes rather heavily, and once knocked down, it’s a pretty nasty guessing game. FADC Flashkick to get out of jail is the only thing I can think of, and the Abels I’ve seen don’t usually stand still for long enough for that to be an option.
Does anyone have good tips on how to deal with Abel? I’m not sure if I’m missing anything, but I don’t feel very advantaged in the neutral game (compared to Ibuki or El Fuerte), and he has a lot more health and damage than Seth or Akuma, with a solid wakeup game to back it up. I hope this is partly the fault of online making it harder to react and punish his approaches, though…
Honda butt slam crossup on guile.
Can someone PLEASE give me some viable options here? Against a 4kPP Honda that knows what he’s doing, it seems almost next to impossible to escape, yet i know strong machine would most likely hand his ass over to him.
These are tactics ive used after a correct block:
- cr lp’s
- st lp > cr mp > SB
- FA dash away
- Jump over honda - avoid subsequent crossup
is there any normal that beats a slam if you try to jump back?
Any help here would be appreciated. Im curious as to what else every here does. I know the general strategy is to stay away and zone.
Mike Ross has beaten Nuckledudu and Yoshiwo so i think its bullsh*t when people say this match up is in guile’s favor. I dont agree when its a high level Honda player.
Well, FA is a good way to stop them from spamming it. If you see it cross up after the FA, just dash cancel the FA, otherwise, let the FA rip, then dash. If you hit the Honda with your FA and you crumple him, he will stop doing that shit alltogether.
Jumpback is not a good option, because if Honda tags you on his way down in the corner, it’s a free U1 combo for you to die.
The answer to buttslams is in the initial post of this thread.
If you know a fierce or ex buttslam is coming and it whiffs on it’s way up, you can use close st.hk to knock it clean out of the air.
wouldnt it be easier to block and then throw?
>_>… As far as I remember, Gen travels through you if he’s close enough and doesn’t land for a significant distance… far enough to need Sonic Hurricane to punish if you let him go through
Feel free to leave suggestions.
It is the first and the match @ 15:31.
I have played quite a lot strong Sagat and Akuma players in the past like Jiji Kun, Emblemlord, littlegirl1994 etc, but Hound is probably the only Sagat and Akuma player I have seen & played so far on PSN who basically destroys me everytime I play him. I do usually spar a lot with him (usually 30+ games endless sessions), but it doesn’t really seem I can even get close to beating his Sagat or Akuma everytime I play him.
Also, I am rarely here on the forums these days, so I don’t know new Guile players coming or going, but anyone who is from EU PSN feel free to add Hound, I would really like to see how other Guile players can adapt this play style, so I can learn from. He is a great player with great sportsmanship.
Also I will be hosting endless lobbies once again on PSN every Saturday, so feel free to join.
I am usually recording at the same time for montages and stuff and sometimes I am just asking for tips for the recorded footage.
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I think you’re jumping in too much and too predictable with them. A lot of Ken players often neglect the fact that Ken can kara FA a TS and then FA forward again to punish Sagat from around 3/4 screen. And your jump-ins are easily punishable as well, even on knockdown.
I think Akuma seems to be his better character. Akuma’s ex air fb can be traded with Guile’s nj.hp but you have to time it a little later.
Check out this video. I have a Fuerte strategy that works most of the time for me and its exemplified in round 1 mostly. Just like Pakman said above, full screen is where you need to be. Just try to avoid knock down. If you air throw or have the opportunity to capitalize with a jump in attack, then do so. If you get knocked down, then you have to either FAD, FK, block, or air throw your way out. You’d be on your own there. What do you guys think of this match? I’d appreciate any input.
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I recommend looking at high level matches and learning the burrito crossup setups / sweep set ups after a knock down. Learn to react the best that you can.
This might seem out of place, I’m a Sakura player who obviously has a really, really bad time with Guile. I’m looking to learn an alt, any suggestions on someone who is a bad matchup for him?
adon
Abel El Fuerte Adon Viper
OK looks like my demon has came back to haunt me again…Vega…what beats that claw when he jumps in? maybe its just me but i just cant tech kara throws. This Vega player solely goes for the Kara throw damn near every chance he gets…
Learning these match ups is a pain with guile I’m trying to just stick with him instead of just switching to balrog every time i feel i cant win with guile…
Found some adon stuff. One of our local zangiefs has started to learn adon, so we’ve both been learning bits and pieces here and there about the matchup.
- f.mk seems like a good ground poke. It’s a little less risky than backfist, still has a good hitbox to hit jaguar kick on startup, and hits him out of lows like sweep. It’s good for stopping his forward movement while trying to poke with s.hk.
- close s.hk seems like a great tool against bad crossups. If you can react to something like c.lp > c.lp > j.mk crossup with an “auto-correct” cs.hk. Doing this seemed way more consistent than using c.hp due to s.hk’s quicker startup on its AA hitbox.
- I had good luck using the focus backdash ~ throw tech OS, although this needs more testing. Adon thrives on his pressure after an ambiguous j.mk, so I think this can be a useful tool to keep in your pocket. (s.lp+s.lk+s.mp+s.mk > backdash for those who don’t know.)
- I feel it goes without saying that U2 is definitely the best ultra here. Being able to stay mobile while punishing a jaguar kick, jaguar tooth, or jump on reaction is difficult, but not impossible.
- I air threw him out of rising jaguar. No, not like a super early far away rising jaguar… I air threw him out of an extra deep, perfect AA rising jaguar. I need to research this to find out if it was a fluke or what. This could potentially be a big deal.
- He has no true blockstrings. Keep this in mind while thinking about a flashkick FADC escape.
- Plan for the aerial jaguar kick. This was something I started picking up towards the end of our set. Let’s say you chucked a boom and he made a bad jump, neutral or forward, that will cause him to land on the boom. It should be instinctual that the Adon will jaguar kick. The timing can be so predictable in this situation that you should be able to score a free df.hk > backfist or at LEAST a s.mk. The timing is tricky to learn and feels pretty unnatural though.
- This match is still straight booty butt cheeks.
So that hard kick fake cross up in the corner I found out messes up Rufus really hard. If he figures out that it’s a fake cross up and tries to reversal ex messiah out, the reversal will auto correct the wrong way and hit Guile only two times. From there it’ll pass completely over Guile and Rufus won’t be able to fadc out in any way whatsoever. I’ll post up a video of this happening.
EDIT: Even if the hard kick turns into a true cross up, the same situation above will occur.
In the corner, Back Throw > whiff cr.lp, cr.mp > forward jump HK.