Hmm… kara air throw? Could be possible. This would be easy to find out which is the best normal during a neutral jump, but a bit harder off of an angeled jump. Once I get a chance, I will check this out.
I’m guessing it was probably his throwable box moving forward before the animation caught up so visually it was like a vacuum air-throw. I think the same thing happened to me just last night…
Here’s the frame data for Adon’s Jaguar Kick. For EX, his throw able box does not move forward at all.
[media=youtube]O0VFDtapt2g[/media]
huh you’re right… (i need to look these up myself before i post lol…) sounds like you really maxed the throw range… Kara air throw would be kinda crazy if true though
No, you’re right. It’s not that his throw box moves forward. It’s him. He moves forward. XD
But I’ll say this much. Adon’s super vulnerable during ex jaguar kick. It’s a guaranteed airthrow anywhere that’s a little bit outside sweep range. The max I got airthrow in the training room is almost 2 to 2 1/2 squares (counting the cubes on the floor).
AFAIK you can’t kara airthrows in SF4. It’s possible to OS airthrows in such a way that if you input the throw too early(j.short), you won’t get a j.short, instead you would get a “better” normal. Always input those quick airthrows with lp+lk+hp or lp+lk+hk.
PS. If you neutral jump and wiff airthrows like 200x, you’ll see that Guile ever so slightly translates across the stage. There’s some kind of forward translation built in his wiff animation.
What do you mean by forward translation? That he moves forward when he does the airthrow?
That’s the 3d aminator in gilley talking lol… yea it means move
Hey, I need some advice in regards to Guile Vs. Fei Long. I can punish and get by Chickenwing just fine, but I’m too unfamiliar with the match up and got exposed pretty badly. Any tips?
Hey tom. For some ideas, check our video thread. Some EVO matches were recently posted of Dieminion BODYING Mago and Fuudo.
Down-back is important in this matchup. Namely because any close rekka is flashkick punishable. Block any rekka outside of EX and just let a flashkick rip. When he’s out of range of his rekka, throw smart booms and pokes.
Backhand is actually a good poke against Fei. Fei’s rekka’s have 7/9/10f startup respectively. Backhand having a 6f startup. Start recognizing the range at which Fei’s throw out rekka’s. From that spacing throwing out a Backhand can score you a counterhit easily and will make them think twice before throwing out a rekka again.
True, watch though for Fei Long throwing out cr. hp if you get too backfist-happy
Another good match to check out is UYG NuckleDu’s Guile Vs CJ Truth’s Fei @ CEO2012. When I asked NuckleDu about that match, he said he specifically trained for about two hours in a casuals getting comfortable in the corner.
Ok guys, allow me to open my heart a bit here. I want to talk about the classic Guile vs Ryu matchup. How do you feel about it in the current version? Personally, I feel like this is at least a 4-6 matchup, in favor of Ryu. What’s been bothering is the fact that most people, if not all, I play usually keep assuring me that it’s a clear 5-5. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to whine, the thing is, I never get a real justification for this. I always get the usual, “yeah, but you know, Guile’s got godlike normals”, or even “Guile can pretty much hold his own in a fireball war”. Seeing things like Dieminion being pretty free against Daigo at CEO also made me more skeptical in regards to the 5-5.
The thing of it is, me being the amateur that I am, I am unable to come to a conclusion on whether the quality of my Guile, or lack of it, is distorting the matchup difficulty or Ryu does in fact have the edge. I’m ready to accept that the problem is mine and that I really need to step up my game, but I guess that I “need” to know for sure.
I guess it wouldn’t be right if I didn’t give some reasons has to why I’m uneasy with this matchup :
1- Guile’s comfort zone is small, like really small. Backfist distance being to optimal place to be, he has maybe two steps forward and backward, beyond that he’s in a bad place. Too far, and Ryu wins the fireball war, too close and he can clip you with a tatsu or cr.mk.
2- Ryu’s focus attack means you can’t really harass him with pokes.
3- If he scores a knockdown, you’re in a tough spot, 'cause his okizeme game is pretty good. Which means you have to be on point every single second of the match.
4- He’s not easily AA’ed, as in, you really have to know which button to press (this is one is most likely a problem of mine).
Anyway, I hope this didn’t “sound” too much like a rant. I’d love to hear your input on the subject. Thanks.
You know, I love the Ryu matchup. You are very right in your observation about Guile’s comfort zone being small. Ryu wins this matchup when he has you in the corner, knocked down, closer than backfist range, and beyond backfist range. Guile only wins the match at backfist range. (Yes, EX booms go through fireballs max screen, but that isn’t going to WIN you the match.) So, why is this matchup 5/5? It’s because Guile wins just so friggin HARD at that range. You can react to anything Ryu does there and make him hurt. To answer some questions…
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Granted, the trick is getting in and remaining there. While Ryu “wins” the fireball war max screen, it still isn’t a bad staging ground. If you can’t match a fireball, focus and build yourself a U2. Sonic hurricane is huge in this match still. Not so much for the damage, but because it slightly extends that comfort zone you were talking about. It makes Ryu afraid to throw fireballs within a certain range, allowing you to throw more sonic booms to get in your sweet spot.
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Truth. His focus attack is godlike. However, doing it still involves risk. If the Ryu is dumb and just lets it rip everytime it hits level 2, try to get used to backdashing it on reaction to make it whiff. Walk forward and punish with df.hk > backfist. Otherwise, it’s just something your going to have to adapt to. If you have good reactions and he’s close enough, use sonic hurricane. Otherwise, try to just stay out of range of it though.
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More truth. I have nothing to say about this really. You should know that sweep > jump forward safe jumps flashkick. Otherwise, just play solid. Smart backdashes, smart throw techs, smart blocking.
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Ryu is very easy to AA. Have you been using s.mk? That normal blows up shotos. Beats j.hk and j.mk clean, tags empty jump attempts, turns into CLOSE s.mk if they do a tatsu and tags them anyways, and will 50/50 beat/trade with j.hp.
I guess the main thing will always boil down to getting in that sweet spot and doing what you can there. A lot of Ryu’s will use an EX fireball to beat any pressure you have in this space, and while a good tactic, you can react to it with a neutral jump or a block. Still, at it’s core, this match is 100% pure old school patience, not made from concentrate. It might take you 10 seconds to get in your zone, then 2 seconds to get pushed back out and you just can’t let stuff like that frustrate you.
Also, post a vid if you can.
Damn, this is so obvious now that I read it, I kinda feel dumb for not thinking about this before. I used to nj->throw, but this is so much more “subtle” and effective.
This is why I said it might have been my problem. S.mk is THE normal I have to include in my game. I barely use it at all. This will change.
I will do that.
Very good stuff. Thanks a lot.
Ok, so I did blanka research. First off, here’s some stuff I found in the blanka forums.
Why Hop Mixups Suck Against Standing Opponents:
Rockcrusher xx f.hop
block -9
hit -4
ch -1
Cr.mk xx f.hop
block -9
hit -6
ch -3
Light Attacks xx f.hop
block - 12
hit -9
counterhit -8
Despite the numbers, it still feels a little hard to time a throw after the hop, but it’s still an effective tactic to just mash on throw if he cancels a normal into hop.
One other thing that happened to me in tournament was I got chipped out by his ultra 2, which was kind of infuriating. I remember hearing some stuff about being able to punish blanka’s U2 with Guile’s U2 or something like that, but no matter what I did, I just couldn’t get it to work. So, I tried finding some way to punish it.
Turns out, even if you are at MAX MAX distance when he activates U2. You can empty jump forward and immediately s.hk when you land and it will hit him before he sends out the second shockwave. The timing is pretty tight… you might only have a couple frames to sneak out your s.hk, but it’s the only thing that seems to work if he activates it at max range. If you’re a little closer when he activates, it’s much easier to jump in and then c.mk or c.hk (I think c.mk has a little bit more range) but otherwise, it seems like s.hk is the best option. I tried backfist too, but he’s just too short when going through the animation for his ultra and a backfist will whiff over him.
I’ll have to remember the throw mash for hop mixups though it seems I also get hit by stuff like hop/up-ball alot but I guess it’s a big risk for him. What exactly makes it worse for blanka if the opponent is standing? Is it like 1 less frame needed for Guile to stand-up? I always die to hop mixups because I have terrible reactions to everything Blanka does and get scared to boom if he lands a few slides.
Yea to avoid U2 chip you need to hit him with a ground normal immediately after a jump. I was under the impression that if you were at max max range then you couldn’t even land s.hk so that’s good to know. Hmmm maybe it’s crazy talk but I wonder if it’s possible to use any version of FK or Super to close the distance off the ground and then punish or is that waaaay too slow…
You can empty jump forward into Ultra 1 to punish Blanka’s U2.
Thank you so much for this info. I was actually able to punish Blanka’s Ultra 2 from full screen because of this a number of times.
Just to note, empty jumpin super or ultra 1 works as a punish as well.
[media=youtube]Tes0_THkMxs[/media]