SSF4 Gen Match-ups & Strategies (Old)

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
541

At S.mk range, she has thunderknucks though. Good damage, safe, armor breaking. Maybe I’m just not in the correct range, but that shit messes me up bigtime. She does so much stun and damage against the old man.

Thanks for the info on EX Oga and burn kicks, I didn’t even know that. I wish seismos were concidered projectiles as well for ©c.mk and EX Oga escapes.

Aside from spending meter (which I find hard to gain in this match, really), anyone have non-EX gimmick/non-meter strategies? Notable normals or counters to stuff? I find it hard to AA her without meter, honestly.

I should just go recruit a Viper player in the area for casuals one day. Still my worst matchup in Super.

542

i actually play some of the best vipers. wolfkrone is from here, and we also have another up and coming viper who clones his style pretty well. its one of my worst matches too, but i have a few tips.

-you can low foward under burn kicks just like a shoto

-whiffed burn kicks can be punnished with ultra or a normal if you are close enough. when vipers use siesmos to zone, a common follow up is whiff burn kick to make it more safe. you can mantis U1 if you are looking for it

-you are better off going air to air than using anything on the ground as a jump deterent. she can change her trajectory mid flight in addition to having a tough to deal with arc and good priority on her jump RH. using normals is asking for trouble

-you can get a counterhit lvl 1 focus crumple between cr.mkxxxTK or cr.mpxxxTK, but you have to release the focus as soon as the normal touches you. dont wait to get to lvl 2. TKs do 200 stun each

-safe jump OS with normal giekro is actually useful. it beats everything except her backdash

-OS with mantis U1 beats everything she has except ex-BK(both whiff) and ex-siesmo feint block

-neutral jumping is probrablly the best solution to siesmo zoning. whiffed siesmos are extremely punnishable. focus dashing is ok too.

-air burn kicks give massive frame advantage to viper. so pick you spots carefully after you block one. counterhit followups like close mp, cr.mp TK do close to 400 stun if the first hit is a CH

i dont win very much against the vipers around here, but i have the most success when i play randomly or just go balls out. i have major problems when i try to fight her like a conventional character. i feel like if i can make her worry about what im doing, then she has less of a chance of catching me with her BS

543

Lp.Tk has 14 frames of startup and Mp.Tk has 16

Counter hit that bitch :smiley:

Gen outpokes and outfootsies Viper for free until she has meter

She has to take risks until she has meter. You can’t really punish her stuff, you have to prevent her from doing stuff

544

Honda stategy… played a turtle honda and he just headbutts me out of every combo… counters every move I make and 3 headbutts equals a dead gen. He blocks ALL crossups can’t jump in because he headbutts everything and beats it clean. then runs away and just counters everything with jumping fierce punch.

The honda I played is the king of turtles there was literally nothing I could do headbutt Beats fucking everything or trades. Once it hits you;re in the same situation trying to get in… again which will either have you EAT another headbutt or block one which puts you into THE SAME situation. Trying to get in. FUKKK turtles e. hondas

545

whenever you play against a turtle… do the same. Wait, let him attack and counter him… once you gain the lead, it’s done… if he blocks all crossups, once you’re behind him, try to grab or use an overhead. As I said usually this kind of players don’t know how to attack… get the lead and then let him come… play defensively. I know it’s not so fun but that’s the easy way.

546

Ya but he said he attacks with Headbutts. I know just the kind. Basically what he needs to do is true block strings that will bring him out of Command grab range. And keep applying that pressure until he actually lands hits. I would also use oga feints and neutral oga dives from a ticked crouching normal. Mix it up. If he is going to turtle and only use Headbutts, use Crane s.MK if he’s a scrub and does it mid to full screen, even neutral jump Crane HK. Practice jabbing them out of headbutts. Unfortunately turtle headbutt abusers make it hard to over head, but sometimes using Crane s.HP can stuff a lot of attacks.

547

VS Ryu:
Forward Grab -> LP Roll (frame exact, which means don’t walk forward for even 1 frame) -> crane forward jump 50/50

  1. If you do meaty j.HK, it crosses up and Ryu cannot crouch. All reversals whiff. If he walks forward you will whiff.
  2. If you do meaty j.MK, it doesn’t cross up and Ryu cannot crouch. All reversals whiff (non-reversal super&SRK will hit you, but the Ryu player has to walk forward for minimal frames and then hope for the auto-correct). If he walks backward you will land in front. If he walks forward he will get hit.

I’m testing this against all characters atm.

VS Gen, Dictator:
Works, will block j.HK if he walks forward.

VS Sakura, Hakan:
j.HK UNBLOCKABLE!!!
50/50 works perfectly btw.

VS Ken, Akuma:
Doesn’t work, j.MK can be blocked both ways. j.HK crosses up.

VS Guile:
Doesn’t work, j.MK&j.HK can be blocked both ways.

VS Honda:
f*** you

VS Ibuki, Makoto, Dan, Cody, Guy:
Doesn’t work, Both j.HK and j.MK crosses up.

VS Adon:
His fast wake-up screws up everything

VS Chun-Li, Blanka:
Doesn’t work, j.HK whiffs. j.MK crosses up

VS Dhalsim:
Doesn’t work, j.HK whiffs. j.MK doesn’t cross up

VS the rest:
Doesn’t work, neither j.HK nor j.MK crosses up. Gen will always land in front.

I guess for the ones with j.HK not crossing up, you can walk slightly forward before doing roll.

548

i’ll test this out too. i can get it jrh to cross up, but im not getting the unblockable effect on sakura.

EDIT-nvm, i was hitting HK too late. unbockable, or tough to blockable

its still worth using with j.mk either way tho because it dodges dps, and if they block j.mk correctly, gen still lands on the opposite side of the block. so you could put a slight delay on your next attack to break the auto block, and create a situation where on block or hit you get damage

549

I remember in vanilla that forward grab -> LP roll -> j.HK was able to stuff reversal LP SRK on wake-up so I was thinking why not try this, then I suddenly got a hold of this setup.

Only on 5 characters will this work perfectly, but of course the opponent wouldn’t still know which way to block unless you use it 5 times per match. Like you said, it’s worth using it since it’ll dodge or even stuff all reversals (except those focus counterattacks like Gouken’s Kongo, and Hakan’s U2), and you can always walk forward before jumping in order to make sure j.MK crosses up.

I think the unblockable works like most setups: It’s blockable only if you try to block it right on impact. The only difficulty with Gen’s setup is that his kick has only 3 active frames.

550

anyone mind doing a video? :wink:

551

I only got an iPhone (not 4!) for recording, but I’ll try to do it after school.

552

cool thanks man.

553

It’s not finished, but it’s up for now since I’ll be vacant for about an hour or so.

[media=youtube]OMANE1HApA8[/media]

Video came out choppy with no sound from recording for some reason, so if you’re the assassin type, you might like this. I wanted to add in Gen’s Theme for the video, but the result was really ugly with the music literally stopping after a minute. Choppy video + non-existant video editing skill ftw.

It’s rly choppy btw, actually it even skips some frames occasionally. I’m going to add some captions or bubbles for some explainations of the setup after I come back. It only works on the five characters I put on the video (Sakura and Hakan are a bit different, but w/e)

554

how does this work vs EX SRKs?

555

I should make an effort and upload some technology here aswell. Not sure how many of them are already know though.

Like, similar to your setup, “throw, whiff crane mp, crane j.mk”. Depending from the timing you pressed mk, it’ll either hit cross up or normal. Works against almost everyone, very ambiguous, safe versus several reversals too.

556

ex srks whiff. its a solid way to pressure shotos on wake up.

that gives me an idea. we should be able to OS crane ultra 1.

557

EX SRK whiffs on both j.HK and j.MK, but here’s the catch with j.HK that I didn’t mention in the video.

Walking forward with Ryu (and Ryu ONLY) makes j.HK whiff, so he can walk forward for a frame and get out an auto-corrected SRK to punch you in the ass. Of course, if you did j.MK, then he gets hit. Depending on how early you were able to roll and when you put j.MK out, you will either land in the front or the back when Ryu walks forward.

558

so basically you’ll have to see figure out what kind of Ryu play you are playing and probably have to go for MK to be safer.

Cool.

559

j.MK is the safest bet, it’s safe on Ken, Akuma, Guile, Chun (lol), and Dhalsim (lol) as well. Ibuki, Makoto, Dan, Cody and Guy I didn’t test yet. it’s unsafe on all other casts.

I did a similar setup too, except I wasn’t thinking about the timing of j.MK. I tried whiff crane s.HK as well, but that didn’t result in a pretty way. I’m going to test throw -> whiff overhead -> j.HK to see if it crosses up on Chun-Li and Dhalsim.

Annotations added to the video for more details.

560

ugh. I really don’t care what some people say. Seth isn’t a good match-up vs Gen, nor is it 5-5. Unless you are a mashing whore, maybe. But he has way too many options and just standing there trying to only block doesn’t work. You can’t back dash, he will suck you back in. You can’t just block because you will eat a command grab, his normals hit really fast so it’s hard to figure out his tick throws. he has his boom to apply pressure, keep pressure and keep you away. I find his dive kick stuffs a lot of gen’s AA’s. And even if you just block, you are in his mix-up range.

Any high level Seth vs Gen play, Seth always wins. I’ve yet to see a Jap Gen beat a Jap Seth, and in convincing fashion.