I have a B+ rank viper and play against a real good Gen a lot (portugese one that won some tourney awhile back) so I’ll give my two cents on the match up:
The biggest rule is to always block low due to seismo(strings). If the viper is trying to keep you away with seismos just remember to not let your guard down after 1 blocked seismo because she can follow-up with another (another etc but you CAN jump out of them unless she does seismo> ex seismo). Try to do feint (close kick) Oga to see if she reacts with anything, if she does hp thunderknuckle (the uppercut) you have enough time to sweep.
The general rule imo is to stay within s.mk range. She is worse at dealing with pressure than Gen is, and Gekiro beats out any of her random burnkicks. Most viper players have a pretty obvious pattern and they don’t even know it. For example, everytime they burnkick and you block it they might throw (alot do), next time this situation comes up just Gekiro. Even if the viper decided to get smart and do a lk burnkick (which would beat out your tech throw attempt) the gekiro will beat it. Even better is that she cannot control the air as much as she can against other characters because of Gens crane j.hp and j.hk, usually it beats out all superjump>burnkick attempts, sometimes it trades but whatever. Gaining the momentum is what this is all about. If you knock her down all she really has is hp tk (ex burnkick…meh not reliable) and cross-ups are highly recommended. The best is obviously to bait that hk tk out and it has crap recovery and vipers tend to overuse it. Try to avoid corners at ALL costs though, that is where she really shines since she can combo into ultra from a single burnkick.
I haven’t fought a lot of vipers, so I only know one thing: If you get knocked down, Crane c.MK > burn kick crossups to anyone who try this crap until they smarten up and actually use one of the normals.
i believe part of bisons EX psycho crusher is also a projectile as well as fei’s ex rekka. basically anything that youve seen negate a projectile. part of giefs green hand.
youd have to test the cr.mk against it tho, because some of them may also carry physical hit boxes i addition to the projectile box
Afaik, no move carry projectile and strike hitbox together except for Seth’s Super (strike hitbox for suck-in, projectile hitbox for actual attacks). From what I have experienced, however, Cr.MK doesn’t work against EX Psycho Crusher since Gen’s lower body + waist is still vulnerable to projectiles and EX PC’s hitbox is located pretty low. Same thing applies to Green Hand and Galatic. It works on EX Rekka though, and works wonders on burn kicks like I mentioned.
It’s pretty funny when you do EX Roll and Bison does EX PC, because they’ll just go through each other.
Just tested in training. Ex PC will fly over you if you use c.mk but don’t just flat-out knock him out of PC first. I think Green hand carries both projectile and strike hitboxes because it still will hit ex roll or ex oga. Galactic doesn’t hit c.mk, ex roll, or ex oga.
Crap, it doesn’t? I’m pretty sure I got hit out by EX PC (not normal ones) in a real match. Ty for clarifying though, I guess I’ll need to hit training mode from now on to make sure. How did you test Galactic btw? That move would be mad hard to test against c.MK.
Can you clarify something for me though? I’m sure I had EX Roll which hit Gief out of EX Green Hand, but I have no access to SSF4 right now.
I think if you c.mk the EX PC too early, just like a regular fireball, Gen stands up too soon right into the projectile. If you did it too late it takes Gen a few frames to assume the crouch pose that gives him upper body projectile invuln.
Very unscientifically :lol: I goofed. I just went back and actually got hit out of my c.mk a few times by different parts of tornado. I don’t know if I mis-timed it or what, but regardless that’s probably not a go-to poke to beat tornado with. But ex roll clobbered both regular and ex galactic tornadoes every time.
EDIT: tested ex and regular green fist shitloads. I think that move is strike invuln (not throw invuln though; you can throw him out of ex green fist) all the way until the active frames come out. I couldn’t beat it once with ex roll, although it looks like you can because his fist is still green even when his hitboxes are gone, making it look like you’re hitting him in the middle of his move when it’s actually just his recovery. But I think that every version of his green fist has a projectile and striking hitbox combined. It’s the only thing that would explain why our projectile-invuln moves get beat out by it every time.
well against sim, you are just going to have to be patient about getting in. focus dahing is good, along with timing your jumps to go over libms or fireballs.
-sims fireball has bad recovery. if you jump when he throws it, so long as you are in range you should be able to punnish
-look for his jump back fierce as an opportunity to focus and dash twice to get closer
-mantis standing fierce will stuff a lot of sims mid range pokes, and is a good response to a random teleport behind you
-obviously combos that knockdown are at a premium
-if you get sim cornered, avoid crossing him up as you will lose your position
-if you get close many sims will attempt to slide and then throw you away. be ready to tech or giekro
-ex oga or ex roll will get you out of yoga castastrophe, but will not punnish
-sim instant jump back fierce is punnishable by mantis ultra 1 at 3/4 screen
-sim back teleport on wake up is punnishable by walk foward sweep, or mantis ultra 1
in addiction to focus>dash in, i’ve been trying to jump at dhalsim between his long range pokes with crane jMP (very good hitbox) while descending just in case he throws out something, not to hit him, just to get close, if you are able to space your jump so that his b+HK would whiff if he tries it… whatch out for his super and ultra (i.e. dont abuse it) :L
if he starts rejecting doing his jMP job, crane jLK works awesome against it
if i happen to focus his yoga sniper (jHP) i’d release the focus as soon as possible, even if lvl1, rather than dash-canceling… free knockdown
oga wont do much, unless its an EX oga as soon as you see a yoga fire
still a tough matchup though, very annoying
against honda, you should really try the safe jump setup…
front throw > dash x2 > KKK nj HP (and optionselect crane U1 if you have it) > epic win (well almost)
but even if you dont have U1, thats always a safe jump, with all its advantages
i dont know what honda(s) you are dealing with, but if he likes to headbutt from midrange, try KKK njMP
i found out that if they cancel into a burn kick, you can mantis ultra 1. even if the kick is whiffing from near full screen. just treat it like a whiffed vega wall dive or bison devil reverse. it dosent have a ton of recovery, but theres enough to land an ultra on whiff.
-dont try to punnish with mp,hpxxxlkgiekro. giekro whiffs so use mk instead of hp
You wont have problems against the twins that the rest of the cast doesn’t have. In fact I think Gen is prob one of the better match-ups against them. S.mp owns dive kick. I think the bad match-ups are Gief and makoto. Geif is just a brainless effort by the player. It is one of those match-ups that you are losing to the character, not the player. Start thinking about ur counter pick!
Ok, seriously, how the fuck do i deal with Guile? Like a tourney level Guile? I’ve always hated Guile because i think he has the most boring design in any game ever. But with Vega it feels like i do have a shot since Vegas jump Hp can stuff his flashkicks and i have means to atleast sometimes negate his booms. I just can’t think of a single way that gen can get in without randoming his way in. He has no fast move with fireball inv to stop Guile from walking behind his booms and pressuring in that way. It also seems that pretty much all Gens jumping moves get beat by Guiles AAs. I’m a seasoned player, one of the best in Sweden but i just can’t figure out how to deal with this. It has to be a bad matchup for Gen i reckon?
Start practicing FASC. and dashing forward on Sonic booms. Be patient, and push Guile back. Once you get Guile close to the corner your spacing should start opening up in your favor. Dont just jump sonic booms because Guile will be ready to AA. once you close the gap you can start poking him and trying sweeps. Once you get the knockdown, Be on him like a Praying Mantis!
This is really what Gen is all about, A praying Mantis does not HUNT for its prey, It PREYS on it. It does this by waiting patiently, putting itself in position to get the most optimal strike and wait for its opportunity. Once it strikes it grabs the insect with its front claws and with dozens of teeth it tears the insect apart.
This is how you should be thinking when you are Gen. Think position and opportunity in the beginning of a match. Find those opportunities using footsies and controlling the space. Once you get a knock down, get in and stay in until they are DEAD!