Like I said, it’s range dependent. You can straight up stuff a stepkick with S.Mp.
Moves that are +frames on block are (M)S.Lp, C.Lp, S.Mp, and C.Lk. There are none in Crane
Few combos videos I threw together. First one is for people who aren’t very good at doing combos, though limited if this situation comes, and they have no meter, they can be useful.
[media=youtube]Bt8D8KZN_x4[/media]
This one is for style. Impractical really, but if you stun them with a single hit, or two, it could be fun to finish them off with.
266 Damage // 366 Stun
[media=youtube]v-6d85K9tUk[/media]
I realize there are better combos, but like it says; it’s just for style.
I try and throw s.mp to counter it but I just keep getting beat, is there a big timing/range issue? I was beating the step kick with s.mk to hands a lot until I started getting (relatively safe) shoryukened a lot so the chip damage i did wasn’t worth the hits I was taking.
Feel free to answer or respond in a way that makes me look like an idiot, but i CANNOT use posative frames properly, I’m sure of it. I play in the same room as this Ken player and I can hear him tapping throw and no matter what I do my hits don’t come out. Can I please have a dummies guide to how posative frames can help? I keep hearing how important they are but whenever I get a knockdown and I safe jump in, I try and use good stuff but it seems so easy to block it out and tap throw while I’m doing my combo.
Nah man. You’re not an idiot at all. Relax.
When it comes to the stepkick, it is hugely range dependent. You say you’re getting DPd. Well you know that’s what he’s gonna do, so you have to bait and punish it. If he’s DPing when he’s in your Mk range, just sweep him on the way down.
The main use of positive frames on block is to set up frame traps and give you an opportunity to press buttons. Let’s look at (M)S.Mp because it’s so amazing and definitely my most used poke up close.
If I throw out (M)S.Mp and they block, I’m now at +5 frames. They can not do anything while in block stun and I have free reign to do anything I’d like. This leaves you with a few choices.
After a blocked (M)S.Mp, you can:
- Do another (M)S.Mp and they have to block it, leaving you with frame advantage again (Really they have to block any normal with 5 frames of startup or less)
- Wait for a short while and throw. They can not beat this with a normal, but they can with backdash/jump/DP
- Do nothing, bait moves, and whiff punish
- Set up a counter hit setup. Basically do a move that hits them right after block stun, but during the startup of their move. If you (M)S.Mp and then wait 2 frames and do it again, this will counter hit EVERY normal in the game. This will lose to DP though.
By DP, I really mean any move with I-frames. There are exceptions and dependent on your opponent, it can change your options, but that’s getting into the more specifics. Something I’ve been using a decent amount is, (M)C.Lk ~ C.Lp ~ S.Mp, walk a step forward, kara throw. If you’ve conditioned them to block after S.Mp, it can lead to a free throw. Later, if they’re trying to crouch tech, you counter hit them.
Let me know if you have any questions
Helpful shiz man!!! Thanks! I have decided the one option I can realisticly take is eat you to gain your power… it’s the only way o.O
On a semi serious note, I’ve looked at Gen’s kara throws but they all seem to be the same distance which is 2 little squares in the training room. Is there a better kara throw than any of the others?
They all basically suck, but I use (M)S.Mk just because I’m used to it from playing Ken. It eeks out a little bit of extra range, enough to take a small step and kara throw after a (M)S.Mp.
ya Mantis s.MP kara throw has a slight shorter distance than s.MK kara throw.
I used to always use LK kara but MK kara is great! 
What do you guys use for AA? I built up LOADS of BP just by demolishing people with Cr.HK in crane. Now that I try and get a little closer it’s not so much of an option (but i still use it when i read a jump) I use s.hp and cr.hp in mantis but neither of them seem to work THAT well, i seem to trade a lot. Does anyone rate light, medium or heavy gekiro? I looked at the frame data and it’s a 7 frame startup for medium/heavy/EX and a 5 frame for light.
I usually only use gekiro as a AA vs floaty characters like chun, or vs Ken’s EX tatsu. c.HP you have to time when they are falling from the peak of their jump (usually), you just need to practice. Or if they neutral jump after a block string. However, most times I like to jump just under them and use something like j.HP catching them before they come back down to strike me.
PPP s.MP can be a good AA, same with PPP s.HK if they are very far away, I like using it vs giefs. I find then tend to jump in from far away as their air normals have amazing reach. KKK s.MK is another I’ve used vs Gief. Just need to practice.
I never thought about using it just to beat floaty stuff, what strength Gekiro do you use? There’s a TINY looking difference between medium and strong, is there something I’m missing in their uses?
I never knew about the C.HP thing either, I thought it was just catching people at long distance, and s.hp was for closer AA’s. I’ll have to practice nods I agree 
Thanks to both of you crusty old men users, I’ll try and use frame advantage and my AA’s a little better now! Might be a small lag issue but I’d love to spar with either of you some time if you wouldn’t mind?
it all depends on the situation. MK and HK are super slow so they can be stuffed very easily. I mainly use HK if they neutral jump me. If they cross me up and I attempt a auto-correct, I’ll use EX or LK.
s.HP can be used for long and mid range jump-ins. Some characters even closer, but depends on their jump arc or hit boxes if they are doing a certain move. I tend to use c.HP for far away jump-ins, and c.HK for closer ones. But sometimes I like to neutral jump or jump back and use a air normal to stuff them as they jump-in.
AA’s have to change from matchup to matchup. gen has different tools to beat different jump ins
off the top of my head, i use mantis crouch fierce vs abel, shotos, deejay, dudley, honda, fei, guile, hakan, juri, makoto, sagat, and gief. there are other exceptions, but you have to be spaced so that they are going to land on your hand after you extend it
stand fierce works vs balrog and sagat
mantis crouching mk will duck you under shoto and sakura cross up tatsus, bisons devil reverse/skull driver, and c.viper burn kicks
ive been testing lk giekros. i find them really useful vs rose and gief. but you have to space it almost in the same way you would with mantis cr.fierce. you want them to jump into the horizontal hitbox
crane cr. roundhouse beats just about everything provided you are in crane, they arent going to land in front of you, and you time it so you get to use the active frames in a non trade fashion
Look at the hitbox page, it’ll may help you get a visual on when to use what anti-air, especially Gekirou.
Me again… I’ve been REALLY trying to stay in mantis and punish jumping with HP and c.HP but good god it just doesn’t work for me! C.HP has been working for me at range, but when i’m up close and personal with some footsies fun, I find that I can’t stuff deep jump-ins. I was ready to throw my TV out the window when I fought like 8 Rogs in a row who all just kept jumping all over me -.- I accept that I need to practice, but a little knowledge might help light my way. Is there anything obvious that anybody can see I’m doing wrong? Or should I just live in the training room for a few days?
i still dont see how mantis standing fierce could work good as an AA 
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3480/3shp.jpg
ok tons of active frames but its hitbox sucks against attacks from above
…and pretty much same thing goes for crane sHK
for DEEP jump-ins youre better off switching to crane and then cHK (even if thats hard and requires practice and good reaction), or just dash under thanks to gen’s really nice toward dash range
if they jumped from FAR away, aside from mantis cHP which should be the 1st choice… LK gekiro might work well too, just be sure you meet them in the air with your (tons of) active frames… if you rely on LK gekiro’s invincibility frames on startup you’re pretty much screwed
while for EX gekiro youre obviously better off using his completely invincible 7 frames startup just to be more sure… or even use active frames if you need to reach them pretty far… its hitbox is awesome
AGREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!! I was REALLY trying to use it and throwing away a lot of games as it was always trading, I used Crane’s C.HK and battered so many people with it but I’m trying to walk forward behind a lot of s.mk xx hyakurenko and good zoning pressure, but then somebody jumps and I have no choice but to let them get a free blockstun and get their own mind games going on.
Edit : And of course in Mantis I can’t AA as well without my Crane C.HK… obvious but I felt I needed to say it lol
I’ve been trying this one combo and I can’t seem to get it reliably. I combo into hands some how (Jump in, walking, whatever) and then FADC into Light Gekiro. I’ve noticed that it doesn’t work as well (if at all) if I FADC too early. Is this true? Do I have to FADC out of hands on one of the later hits? What is the latest I should FADC out? Should I even be trying to do this?
2 hits of hands have extra frame advantage, I can’t remember if it’s the 1st and 4th or the 2nd and 4th, but I know it’s the 4th for sure.
You FADC on that hit and you have enough advantage to continue your combo
1-4th 2-3rd hits are the same
I was just tinkering around in the training room and sort of noticed something about EX Hyakurenko, it seems to put Ryu (only tried on Ryu) at PERFECT distance for a cross up oga
After a knockdown… j.mk c.lk c.lp xx EX Hyakurenko m.Oga
on hit or block it seems to work perfectly. Not sure if this has already been discovered on the Oga setups yet but if it hasn’t then wow what potential!!! off crouching normal into EX Hyakurenko you might have time to charge an Oga or using my example woo!