you could also just end after s.mp and try some mix up with tick throw, another s.mp, overhead, c.mk/mp crane s.hp etc
you could but my point is, that most characters have a safe move. And usually their safe move allows them to get in close or stay in close. Roll was IMO his best stay on them move until I was punished by ryu and ken’s SRK.
mhh i dont think that hands push you in gen’s dissfavor. against certain characters it CAN but you’re in an okayish range to pull some footsies down. most special enders doesnt really get them closer in, at least i cant really think of many hit confirmable, comboable safe moves in the term on closing in. (dunno if rose’s spiral arrow is safe). t.hawks istn comboable afair. hadoken doesnt add range and can be punished. etc
ahh, vipers TK is safe, bisons lk scissor and sakuras lk tatsu aswell. vegas roll is -2 but this can only be punished by grabs. if you come up with another move, let me know.^^
i would say gen’s hand ender is pretty solid, except the low damage part ofc ._.
against really really good footsies characters, or even really good zoning characters hands can push you back to where you don’t want to be. Like vs Ken, Vega, Bison and Guile. I want to be in their face as much as I can. I try not to use hands a much vs them.
Hands vs. Vega(claw) is bad news. He can cr. strong-> EX Barcelona. I tend to to stick to various block strings with Vega and try to get the throws or combo into short. Gekiro. If he flips on wake up you can catch him with most pokes or even walk up forrward-> hands-> super, or whatever combo or simply cr. roundhouse(mantis).
Also, it seems like j. short(crane) owns vega’s barcelona for free. I rarely get beat by it.
I like using Crane c.HK to beat his BA. Also what do you guys use to beat out his Backflip? Is there anything Gen can use that will hit him as he comes out of it, with out Vega going from Backflip to attacking Gen?
you cant stop his backflip, but you can punish it. timed c.hp / c.hk should be abel to reach it. dunno about his double flip tho
ya sorry that’s what I meant. I meant when he comes out of the flip can you hit him before he can hit you. Meaning can he go straight to something right after the flip without getting hit.
Yes, he’s got recovery, the PPP flip has 8 frames of recovery, and the KKK flip has 10 frames of recovery, as per frame data. Invincibility frames don’t last the entire animation. When he hits the ground you can hit him. Probably easiest to walk up and throw the double flip, and just mantis cr.hk/cr.hp the KKK flip.
And you may be able to punish with the rolling attack, but it’s doubtful that you’d ever find a situation where you’d be that close and actually have a backcharge unless he flips in the middle of a combo, more likely to EX Scarlett terror between combos.
Every time I tried to throw him once he lands I would get hit with the EX Flip Kick.
hmm, I could be wrong. I’ll put some time in training mode. Flip kick is throw invinc for sure since he’s airborne, but the point of recovery might be earlier than him touching the ground. I do it all the time (grab on flip recovery), but it may just be circumstantial and not a true punish.
ya I’m going to go back into the Lab. I’m going to work on some What to do videos vs certain characters like Guile.
yeh, you can punish flip hard, if you want to get an idea of how to, just go into training mode, pick gen and vega, then record vega doing a flip and holding up afterwards, it’ll give you an idea of how much recovery time he has, just look at when he hits the ground, versus when he jumps, plenty of time do anything sub 8 frames. Probably really nice opportunity for super although you’ll have to time it right so you hit him as the invincibility finishes.
It’s all good I was in some casuals with a guy who played nothing but Vega. Got it down pretty good. And i know how to use the lab 
Yeah, the flip is really bad against Gen because you can cr. HP the shit out of both versions. You can also walk up cr.mp->super to really punish the hell out of it. Also, technically, one could use the walk up meaty st.mp -> Ultra 1(mantis). against the single flip. st.mp is +6 and 5 frames active, if you get the mp as meaty you can theoretically hit ultra 1 which starts up in 10 frames if I remember correctly… This is all total theory fighter at this point but I think the frame data supports it.
Also, I am sure this has been covered, but I will post it anyway, st.mp->st.hp->hk.gekiro combos on Ryu, is that the case with everyone else? Because I will use that as a meterless punish from now on if it works on most the cast. It’s a good chunk of damage for no meter. Also I was landing the whole combo from cross up j.mk(mantis)/j.hkx2(crane)/j.hp(mantis)/ Etc. It was combo’ing really nice. Thoughts?
Also,
Messiah: Again, thanks so much. I was hitting that FADC->whatever last night with the technique you mentioned. Bad freaking news. I was doing the st.mp->hands->fadc->st.mp->st.hp->hk.gekiro…it is the niceness… Thanks again.
the hk giekro is character specific. lk giekro hits everyone tho
If you look at my videos you will see that my s.MP, s.HP, HK Gekiro hits Ryu. I’m going to post a video with who can be hit with what. or just make a list. But there are a few variables. Like if you are too far away when you use a jump in etc. Even just s.HP, HK Gekiro whiffs on characters like Sagat.
Beat me to the punch, There’s another chart floating around with cross up oga setups that are character specific and EX hands to cr.hk. no idea where its at though. I’m pretty sure it hasn’t been updated for super though.
Edit…first post in the match-up thread. repost fyi
Some of the data might have changed, but at the least the new characters are not present.
Yeah, it might be in our best interests to start updating stuff like that. I know I would use ex.hands,cr.hk to stop pressure if I knew who I could land it on. When I do it now, I toss an oga in afterward to start the Genanigans.
It’s too bad that s.mp,s.hp,hk.gekiro is so finicky, as I think it is a pretty mean ass punishing combo. I assume that if it works on Ryu it has a good chance on working on Akuma/Ken/Dan? I would also assume Gief/Thawk would be givens as well… I hope it works on Guile because that matchup is trash.
like it