The reason is the little time we’ve had. In a match it’s herd to change ur thinking from super. I sat next to Vanesco and was calling out "TC, “TC” when he had a chance to punish. It’s still just habit to walk forward and punish with mp, mk hands.
In a short time you’ll see what Ur looking for!
anything new with meter building with mk xx hands?
looks like standing hk is gonna be the shit now.
My only problem with AE is that it supersedes Super. I really have little desire to play an outdated version, especially with so many changes to the new version. You’ll be seeing a lot less of me on Super. I might just pull a Kaiser Sozay!
“You’ve made me a happy man.”
Thanks for the lab work guys!
just wanted to clarify some of the AE test results with current (SSF4) mechanics:
mantis U2 is already able to hit with full cinematic animation upon jump-ins but only when the first hit connects during the landing frames of the attacker. based on Vanesco’s test description its unclear whether its actually any different. I don’t believe it is because of what SecretCharacter mentioned about mantis U2 after mantis super; the fact that it can still only hit once (without full cinematic animation) if you do it too late means that the full damage is still conditional upon opponents state. it does not connect fully vs. airborne and falling state, but does against grounded and “float” (float is the special state after certain moves like mantis super - when mantis U2 does fully connect).
in SSF4 crane jyasen roll of all strengths on block are -3. but they are not always punishable by 3 frame reversal shoryuken due to variations in pushback. there are a number of factors but its largely based on the active frame that the first and subsequent hits connect on (notice how each hit in the roll has multiple active frames) and other things like opponent’s block hitbox (initial block frame, standing vs. crouching, character-specific). if you want to test this yourself just go to training and record variations of roll, cancel into roll, etc and use a shoto to 3 frame reversal punish it. sometimes it hits, sometimes it whiffs. in the case that it whiffs, often a different 3 frame punish with more horizontal range will hit (e.g. ryu cr.lp). like i said there are a number of factors and in my testing i could not find reliable setups to ensure that the pushback would be reversal srk safe, since one part of the equation is the manner and timing in which your opponent blocks it.
that said, based on Vanesco’s description it very well could have changed in AE to be consistently unpunishable by reversal srk, either due to changes to pushback from box changes or blockstun. it sounded like he tested repeatedly with different versions; i just hope this included multiple distances, reversal timing on the srk, and standing block. i think jyasen is already a powerful conditional tool… making it completely safe (say -2 or just unpunishable by shotos) would make it a little too good, but i’ll be happy to use it anyway.
on that note, I’m not sure why some people think it needs to be improved… its one of the best anti-air moves in the game and its on one of the fastest characters (in crane stance). 5 frame startup with hurtbox resizing (as he crouches) and a large unhittable hitbox once its active, 120 damage (150 on counterhit happens all the time), moves Gen forward for wakeup pressure. if it gets stuffed its often because its mistimed too early rather than too late. almost nothing beats it clean when timed right except moves with larger unhittable hitboxes - i can’t think of one except maybe cammy’s ex dive at certain angles or maybe some headstomps / step kicks
thanks to all the contributors who have been reporting AE testing. i’m pleased Gen is looking significantly stronger; i think the TC2 (cr.lk --> cr.mk) and 5 frame mantis cr.mp are going to be insane (TC1 is of course good too but Gen already had good options in situations where mantis st.fp first hit connects, so TC1 is just incremental improvement to damage, meter, etc). i’m worried about balance of AE overall though… hopefully console release can address balance changes if they are needed.
edit: if TC1 connects when whiff punishing limbs with st.fp (as Yeb mentioned) it would be pretty mean. you could buffer the entire TC and gekiro each time you fish for it
How would we hypothetically test if Mantis U2 will get cinematic on AA? Or on AA CH? Have someone neutral jump in the corner (does a move exist with 0 landing frames? Or could they just hold back?) and throw U2 to see if it gets full animation or just the normal knock-back. I wish that dude would upload my match with mantis u2 AA so people could take it apart. Please give me some feedback, as I want to look at this more.
2)Also, thank you so much for testing SSFIV’s jyasen punishes. Could you tell me if there are any reversals that definitely 100% punish on block? I’m pretty sure Ken’s did.
I actually had some controls for the test. The test was done with my friend, so it didn’t occur in casual play. I asked him to stop fighting in a round to test it out. For testing the roll recovery/pushback, I told my friend to just block the first hit and mash the different strength Shoryus with Ryu. I pushed him into the corner with Gen, made sure I was close as possible, and did Crane c.mp->hp Jyasen. He was standing blocking each time. Lp shoryu whiffed x2, Ex Shoryu whiffed x2. You may still be right though about all the different variables, and I’ll try to see if I can test with him crouching, with a Ken, and just get a larger sample. This sounds like it’s gonna cost me some money. I’d appreciate some help, lol.
I’m not sure what you’re asking in your comment in your edit.
this puts a smile on my face…maybe he will be bottom mid-tier.
Wow so soon to already figure out match-up win ratios and tier speculation? Nonetheless, I’m glad to hear it. Sad thing is that the changes wont come to the console anytime soon even though it hasn’t been confirmed that it will.
The arcade scene is dead here in the states unless you live in So/No Cal or the east coast. Plus I can’t possibly justify paying $1 - 1.50 a pop unless you are really good at the game. It’s funny, I’ve seen the original SF4 in Gameworks here in AZ and it cost $1.50 or so to play and I’ve seen some classic arcade games still cost almost $.75. Rubbish!
Ok rant over. Glad to see there are players repping Gen in AE. Hope to see some great vids of Gen in the coming days/weeks/months.
I really want to see high level gen play from hoigek rokotsu or profecery soon or I’m going to explode:mad:
Don’t count on Rokotsu giving us any AE footage, he can’t use turbo function in the arcades!
i just like hearing that you guys think gen is more solid. it sucks that i put more time into gen and i tend to do better with cody or ibuki. cody has his problems but he a lot more solid character then gen in super. plus with cody and even ibuki changes sound great.
i cant wait, i want to try out the changes.
Went to play tonight. I tested a few other things. Man, I was beating lots of very HQ players (Ed Ma’s Akuma, Joe Dubbs, Paper, El Toro, LainySky’s Makoto) and winning more than losing. Think I got a 18 win streak at one point. Beat Clockwork and J.Wong the other day too, but they were using the new characters. I have a video of one of my losses to Joe Dubbs, but it was a damn good match and I used the TC a lot in it.
Anyway, here are some notes:
-Crane j.mk cross-up-> c.lk -> Focus hit -> Crane U1 still is shitty damage. Still get scaled to shit.
-Mantis S.Hk is still very good against the brother’s dive-kicks. It is not a good AA for much else though. It gets stuffed (no trade) by shoto J.HK and similar moves. Use it for empty jumps and weird angle dive kicks/moves.
-The new TC Mantis s.hp->s.mk into HK Gekiro is very character specific. It seems to whiff even on characters that it didn’t whiff on s.hp->HK Gekiro in super. It’s so frustrating. On Guy, you need to cancel the mk-> Gekiro immediately or it will whiff. In light of playing around with it a lot, I’ve just started to use lk Gekiro after TC. Using lk even hits Guile. EX gekiro should work for all though, I’m pretty sure.
-Mantis U1 still has no projectile or hit invincibility after cinematic freeze. I lost out to a low to the ground burn kick, and traded with a close devil’s reverse once (i hit it all 5 other times I threw it, but once it traded and didn’t go into cinematic. Think Mantis HP super trading).
-Mantis U2 cannot AA for full cinematic. I’m 100% positive of this now. I guess I had just hit someone on their landing frames. Sorry to get your hopes up, guys.
I figured I can’t really explain how much these TC do damage and how much meter they build, so here are some PICTURES OF BOTH DAMAGE AND METER FOR A SUCCESSFUL COMBO. Prepare to get hype:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s268/loveandgravity/mms_picture.jpg
TC(S.hp->S.mk)->HK Gekiro
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s268/loveandgravity/mms_picture2.jpg
S.mp ->TC ->HK Gekiro
(B&B)
Take into account I was getting hit too (by the CPU) while getting my camera out. You will get a little over half with the first combo, and 3/4ths of a bar with the B&B. Also take into account that these were done with no focus attack and no jump-in before hand, so expect a lot more damage and meter than this on cross-up or with a focus crumple. When I hit Adon with Mantis J.mk-> S.mp -> TC -> (HK?) Gekiro twice, he dizzied or was close to it.
Merry Christmas,
Van
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A loss, but you can see me in action. You can also see me testing if Mantis U2 will AA with cinematic, lol.
nice damage on the tc making it a good punish when you dont have super and ultra. sucks about mantis ultra 2 but at least crane ultra 2 more useful. still i would rather use ultra 1 against most characters unless they have a fireball.
i was expecting Gekiro to be character specific but it still good damage with the tc.
Good shit guys thanks for all the info. I havent touched SSF4 in about 5 months lol, but if I do start playing again (when/if AE comes to consoles) then I’ll definitely continue with Gen. I didn’t think he was as bad in Super and some people claimed, but whatever.
The meter building buff is awesome. How’s his meter building on mk xx hands now. I know it wont be vanilla SF4 level, but I’m assuming it’s better than SSF4?
The changes to mantis st.hk sound great as well, but I’m concerned with it being focus bait. Although we still have mk xx hands to keep the FAs in check
if not mk into hands we have cr mp into hands which is safer and the same speed of standing mk.
In that video at the start when Vanesco does s.mp mk hands, it looked like it build decent meter, hard to see but I’m pretty sure it’s slightly more meter.
Yeah, I was going to recommend that people try to look at the shitty quality video and eyeball meter build/damage. I’m sorry I don’t have a better quality video for you all to scrutinize. I will try to gt my friend to come out and record more of my matches next time I go.
omfg thank you for the new infos and pics 
we’ll just have to figure out when to use HK gekiro and when LK version
but nice damage and meter building on those combos
and i guess hit confirms from light hits will be even better… is cLK, cLP, HP-MK xx LK gekiro possible?
that could be one of the most damaging meterless hitconfirm-from-light-hits combo in this game, if range allows that
i dont want to get to premature conclusions but damage output finally looks good
upon your next visit to the arcades. would it be possible to try AA one or both shakudan hits… land, then do normal or EX gekiro.