so you don’t see the fb come out yet right?
mtrann: if you do a reversal U1 vs Dict EX PC, the first hit will whiff since Dict is still airborne, and then recover, and have time to block the second hit, and the rest gets blocked. As a non-revseral move the first hit connects on Dict and the rest just auto combos for full hits (the second and forth hit doesn’t whiff)
The fireball can come out, but it has to be literally next to his mouth. Of course, the faster your reactions, the better the result. The way i was doing it, I was literally looking for him to start rokcing hsi head back for the fireball and inputting the command then.
Nice find, Golden_Gunman. I have beaten the last 6 Dhalsim’s I’ve faced and used EX Thunderbolt to its full advantage against 'Sim. And the thing is, they still wanted to zone with Yoge Fire and were punished 90% of the time I used EX Thunderbolt. This is great, another match-up I can deal with now little by little the more I learn with Dudley. Now onto M.Bison (Dictator,) and the others…
East’s In-Depth Character Study: Guy
So I’m starting a project where for a little bit of time I’ll use different characters just to learn match-up. I friend told me that if the best way to figure out how to beat a character is to use them yourself and learn what they’re good at and their limitations. That being said I figured I’d post my conclusions here to help with filling out the match-up dex.
This week’s first character is Guy
Guy is a character that I think a lot of people sleep on, although if you don’t know the match-up I can understand why one could eat you apart. Guy’s strengths come from his [and his opponent’s] position on the level and has a legitimate mix-up game and all the tools to put his opponent where he wants them.
Guy’s Gameplan
Gameplan
[details=Spoiler]In the center of the stage Guy doesn’t have great damage potential. Most of his BnB’s are short and unless it’s a punish [even then, save for super], you’re not going to watch your lifebar drop a whole lot when getting hit; however his combo’s are effective at doing something else: Sticking you in the corner. Most of Guy’s throws and attacks are made to send the opponent far, in hopes they get stuck in the corner, where pretty much every combo deals notable damage and he has several mix-ups to keep you there.
Speaking of, his mix-up game is something that should not be taken lightly. A tricky guy will keep you on your toes with his myriad of high and low attacks and throws once you’re in the corner. In the corner is also where his ultra’s actually gain use. Ultra 1 is a combo-into ultra that on average if combo’ed into will deal roughly 450 damage [with leeway both ways]. Ultra 2 is a grab ultra [the raging demon with the lights on, lol] that does 500 even.[/details]
Guy’s Ultra’s
Ultra 1
[details=Spoiler]Ultra 1
The ultra Guy is able to combo into. It isn’t that good… In fact it’s down right terrible. Unless they are in the corner or close to it, you can’t combo into it. It’s got really long start up [12 frames [1 +11]] and only works if Guy’s gameplan is working [which is counter-productive to how you gain ultra meter, but whatever]. If you’re not in the corner, chances are you don’t even have to worry about this. It is visually awesome though; however, that matter’s little.
Ultra 2
This is Guy’s grab ultra. It’s sadly, probably the better of the two ultra’s. It’s got great start-up [2 Frames [1 +1]] and deals more damage than the first ultra. Guy can use it pretty well in his mix-up game and should be considered much more of a threat than the first ultra in any scenario. The range on it also isn’t bad [Visual: http://i46.tinypic.com/i1yber.jpg]. A trick I’ve seen some Guy’s [Ryan Hart for example] do is start a combo and then finish it with run > stop, Ultra 2. This doesn’t combo, but will catch you if you’re sleeping. [/details]
Guy’s Specials
Specials
[details=Spoiler]Hozanto
light Hozanto is a basic combo finisher. In the corner EX Hozanto can be followed up after a light one. This attack breaks armor and every version knocks down. Only the light version is safe on block [-2], everything is -2 more for each higher version [mp: -4, hp: -6, ex: -6 also]. Only the light version combo’s so if they try a different one, just sweep them out of it.
Bunshin Senpuukyaku [the hurricane kick]
Another combo finisher, and extender for combo’s in the corner. Not much to say about this one except that the EX version is Guy’s only reversal. If you can bait it or predict it, it is highly punishable.
*Run > [stop, slide [low], overhead kick [high]][i/]
This is part of guy’s mix-up game. Run > slide can combo normally from some of his stuff. Run > overhead does not combo, but if he catches you with it while you’re in the air, he can follow up for ultra 1 in the corner [it combo’s]. I tested it multiple times, and I found it very difficult to counter the overhead kick. Rarely I could sneak in an ex dp, but everything else of Dudley’s seems to get beat or doesn’t come out fast enough.
Jump > [elbow or throw]
Guy’s command flip to elbow does not combo, but as far as I tested it cannot be punished if blocked. It says it has recovery of 8 frames but I’m not sure. Perhaps someone could do more testing? The throw on the other hand is dangerous [200 damage a pop] [Visual: http://i47.tinypic.com/2v1x2ep.png]If the flip get’s close to you, c.hp will either beat it or if they elbow, trade with the elbow in your favor. This is not as hard to react to as the overhead kick. Generally, crouching renders the throw useless, or makes it incredibly hard to land.
Air Throw
Just know Guy has an air throw. Does 180 damage. Don’t get caught.[/details]
Guy’s Normals
Normals
[details=Spoiler]Guy has a 4 frame jab! Abuse the hell out of your 3 frame jab.
Guy’s only notable poke is his s.mk and probably his c.mk.
Guy’s c.mk is 2-hits, it is safe on block and only the 2nd hit knocks down.
Guy’s only decent, meterless, anti-air is his s.hk, which beats the elbow clean.
The EX Hurricane kick is guy’s only reversal and also an anti-air.
Guy’s slide [c.hk] knocks down and if not spaced properly is incredibly unsafe on block.[/details]
Match-Up Evaluation
Match-Up
[details=Spoiler]I think this fight is 5-5.
Dudley hits harder than guy, has a faster jab, and Guy is weak against a crouching opponent. His high attack can be reacted to, and blocked high. If guy get’s pressured all he can do is ex hurricane kick. Guy can space out Dudley to the tip of his c.mk and keep Dudley at bay. Also, If Guy is smart, they will use Ultra 2 for this fight because once he get’s ultra, it severely limits what Dudley can do [Anything -2 is punishable]. Both character’s will be fighting for momentum in this match-up and whoever can get it generally wins.[/details]
If you’re interested, I haven’t chosen another character to do yet, so if you’d like to make a suggestion, or follow along and ask info, pm me and I’ll provide you the info.
Hope all of this wasn’t for nothing, and helps
-East
I’m surprised you didn’t mention Guy’s c. MP, that was seriously my favorite move when I played Guy the first 2 weeks. Combos into itself and cr. jab, special cancelable iirc. It’s awesome to just throw out and watch it eat other pokes.
lol, I had a combo section that had some of his most notable combo’s that had that information, but I figured Dudley player’s wouldn’t care about Guy combo’s so I erased it.
c. MP is like a swiss army knife though. It anti airs, it pokes, it counter pokes, it combos, it slices, it dices, it gets the kids to bed on time, etc.
Any time Guy even thinks about doing his flip shit air grab shit whatever it’s called, just stuff it with s.mk
Here’s a chart of the JP tier list, US names.
Super characters match ups vs other super characters not discussed so they remained 5-5
Surprised they say Cammy and Fei have advantage over Dudley.
They’re sleeping on a few characters over there.
there’s no link…
I can understand Fei, he can out footsie/zone you all day. There’s almost nothing safe you can do vs wake up chicken wing after you knock them down, so it’s hard to pressure even after knockdown.
Yeah… seems like Fei would cause trouble.
Cammy too. What the hell does Dudley do when he gets knocked down once, other than just lose?
Whatever Rog does when Cammy knocks him down I guess.
Boy I’m so close to dropping Dudley and not bother playing on Rank Matches anymore because it seems like “scrubs” are beating e with there stupid little shit online. “Hey, let me stand here, way back and throw Hadokens. Oh and when he gets near me, I’ll just spam shoryuken’s and sweep them. YEAH! I’ll do just that, it’s the perfect way to win!!” It seems like Ryu, Ken, Cammy, T.Hawk, Zangief, Cody, Guy, Akuma (If it demon flips me all the fucking time,) Abel, Adon, El Fuerte, M.Bison (Dictator,) Balrog (Boxer,) not so much Balrog though. Sometimes Vega (Claw) if it catches its period and wall grabs me all day, E.Honda. Chun-Li, and oh my God Rose… I can’t express how much I hate facing her because of her footsies and her stupid godlike U2. I think this is the 3rd time I posted something like this because I was frustrated at losing to stupid shit online and the cast that just shits on Dudley most of the time and I can’t get a good winning percentage against them. My lowest is 18.88% against Rose…I’ve read the match-ups, I’ve studied them and come back to them a lot whenever I need help, if there isn’t any match up help I couldn’t find I ask for advice and sometimes they just don’t fucking help me because I think I am doing something wrong. I know Dudley is one of the most diffcult characters to really use but come on? Seriously, I’ve been struggling for way too long and I’ve been using Dudley since day one of SSF4.
I don’t know if I should drop Dudley and continue using my old main, but dudley is so beast, and unique as well. I always wanted to main him. I just don’t know if I can keep going because I really do get frustrated when I lose to stupid shit online, even when I play patient and smart, but I love going in their faces and busting the shit out of them for big damage. I’m not a noob or a scrub, but I do know that Dudley has a lot of trouble against the roster in SSF4, and it’s very hard for me to beat even the bad matchups that some good players can handle and maintain during battle. I know when I lose to characters I do have trouble with, I try to ask for advice and learn from those match-ups, but it seems it gets harder and harder fighting those same characters every time I meet one, even though it’s a totally different person with a different play style.
Help please? Any tips to help me stay with Dudley? I really don’t want to drop him, but it’s coming to a point where I’m almost done with Dudley…
I found a pretty good Nj safe jump on honda in the corner. If you get to forward throw in the corner lk duck nj rh. you have to time the rh so that it hits if he just blocks it works on ex head butt and ex buttslam. but with buttslam you should be ready to crosscounter on reaction because you cant of because honda will get the block and you lose your advantage.
Forward throw= safe jump on every character in the game cept ryu,ken,akuma. After forward throw pause for a split second then dash forward and either neutral jump or forward jump depending on if they’re in the corner or not. The timing isn’t hard once you get the hang of it.
In the corner I didn’t know its the same thing. I was looking for Honda mainly because this nigga is soo annoying to get on?
Block and tech throws.
not necessarily true. balrog can armor out of ambiguous jump ins, which drastically helps the wakeup game, while dudley just has to sit and hope to block properly, which is no easy task imo.
the cammy matchup is pretty tough, its like the rufus matchup but even harder because not only can she rush you all day, but you cant space her as effectively, if you try to keep her away with fierce, she can go under you w/ c.mk cannon drills, and shes harder to anti-air being smaller. her throw baits are also better imo because of the huge counter hit + advantage she’ll get when baiting a throw, and i see no way to option select that like a dive kick.
you can make his elbow drop whiff entirely with cr.rh and get the sweep.
guys I need rog tips. vs a good rog, it seems inevitable that you’ll get outzoned.
I’ll start off with some points
that’s all I have. There are more negative points than positive points in there. Against bad rogs, you can punish their rush punches all day. vs good rogs, you’ll get trapped in the corner and forced to fight his poke/throw mixup.
Yeah, I really have a huge tme fighting tough Rog players. I’ve been training for the past two days, and I’ve found out a lot of things. The really good rogs also don’t jump, so it’s hard for you to get free hits with s.mk or cr.hp. Stay close, it may seem risky because Rogs will grab a lot, but duck and grab, mix up. Most Rog’s get overheaded a lot. I don’t know Rog’s headbutt startup, but it seems they will mostly get Dart Shotted if they’re not standing to block. Don’t give Balrog space because his charge kic breaks your barrier of Focus Attack. They will always poke you with cr.hk, and Balrogs love using it for sweep and spacing. This is what I do against good Rogs; stay in, attempt grab, Dart Shot, dash back, and f.hp, because it’s safe on block. I don’t know what else would be good against good Balrogs, but these are what do and use and t’s a 50/50 for me.
Also, when I started using Dudley, I used to use EX Counter on Balrogs charge punches. And it inflicts a lot of damage, and gives you free U2 damage. Use this, Balrogs will stop being a charge whore as well…
