That really sounds more like a popularity poll or rather than tier rankings. I hope it’s the latter. Can’t wait for vids to prove me wrong.
@ Balrog: Rog is really lame too, but he’s more free than most chars on wake up. If he doesn’t have meter there’s really nothing he can do to your wake up pressure. Neither of you will be jumping at each other, because you each have clean anti airs for eachother, so this is going to be a ground battle, which doesn’t bode to well for the boxer who is only as tall as the reach on one of rog’s arms. Forward fierce is the MVP in this match. It can knock him out of dash punches, and will beat out the random st. and cr. jabs Rogs like to do. Just don’t get predictable with them, since if they can see a pattern, they’ll just dash straight during your recovery. Counter-hit forward fierce into party starter is one of the strongest things you can do against rog. Rog’s defense is stupid good, though; just remember the usual rog strategy of knowing what you can punish on block, always throwing the rush punches that you can, etc.
@ Rufus: Jump back fierce is the shit. OS throw/cr. fierce the dive kick game. Again, don’t get predictable with it. When Rufus doesn’t have meter, rtsd. When he does, play more conservatively and try to punish more. I use corkscrew in this match because it’s badass against dive kicks. Overall this match is very similar to the rog-rufus match, only you have to be more of a pro while blocking.
@ Adon: J. strong beats all of adon’s normals in the air. Business elbow beats jaguar tooth clean. This match is pretty even, since you can’t really punish much of what adon does on the ground, and he has a legit mixup game. You can rush him down well though. If you’re put in a situation where you have to block jaguar tooth and you can’t just n. jump elbow (for… some reason), be wary of what adon has. He can throw you or hit you in a multitude of ways, and having to guess sucks. Your best bet in this match is to never have to block a jaguar tooth, and besides that, you can really keep the pressure on adon.
@ Juri: Having good punishes is the key to winning this match. As awesome as juri is (have you guys seen the frame data on her shorts and jabs? dear god!), you can punish pretty much all of her special moves. Blocked dive kicks, blocked pinwheels (remember to block crouching), and you can easily duck through her fireballs. If she gets a healthy life lead on you though, you’re absolutely, 100% gray earl certified screwed, so try to stay a little outside of her fireball range and look for your opening. Don’t jump in on her when she has meter though. EX pinwheel knocks you out of anything. Including the business elbow. ;( I use rolling thunder in this match. It can go through her fireballs, which is a big part of her keep away game. Also, any non lk pinwheel is punishable by ultra on block, so learn which one is which.
I was kind of afraid that people would get mad if I did that because I couldn’t give credit to everyone since it would clutter the space.
What does everyone think? Would anyone have a problem? If not there will be a huge update tomorrow.
I had such a virtual hardon for you once upon a time.
I hate dudley mirror matches >.<
^Why is that?
I’m glad to hear my advice was helpful to you! :wgrin: It’s a simple but surprisingly effective strategy, everyone should try it if they have trouble dealing with Chun and Dictator.
Should we be ducking through Sonic Booms or not? It seems like it’s hard for Guile to punish it consistently if you do it fast enough and mix it up with empty ducking and followups. However, he can punish you if he’s on point with say s.lp -> s.hp or maybe a throw or something. On the other hand, if you don’t ducking through the fireballs, you’re screwed. In order to actually punish a boom you have to do the ducking at around the same time he throws the fireball.
Are you talking about up close or from far away? Up close, short ducking straight is 25, short duck upper is 23, and empty short duck is 20, where as Sonic Boom recovery is 29 at best. Given this, as long you are really on point, I say go to town on him. You could even empty short duck and go for a liver blow which people say stuffs Guile’s normals. From far away, just watch for the range on the backfist since I’ve been smacked from surprisingly far away. I haven’t played any really good Guile’s so I don’t know for sure though.
Don’t forget that duck is just one option that Dudley has against booms.
You have duck, forward jump, neutral jump, FA backdash and FA Forward dash.
I think its a successful and conscientious mix of these options that enable you to successfully get close enough to guile.
Personally i don’t ever really go for the Duck followups, i’d rather use any existing frame disadvantage to get an untechable knockdown [throw etc.]
The way i see it, against guile, getting in a throw is very important, because not only does it set up an untechable knockdown, but also if you do it right, moves guile so much closer to the corner, where in you have a plethora of options to keep him there.
If you’re close enough to duck through a sonic boom without it being punishable, I would think you would be close enough to just jump it and punish with a big combo.
Of course reacting to sonic booms in either of these ways is pretty difficult.
EDIT: Oh yeaaaa updated.
So what do people think about what I asked in my last post?
This is assuming you are doing it on reaction in which case you are reacting to the boom itself. You need to factor in the frames it would take for your brain to recognize the sonic boom and then for you to duck. Also lp boom recovery is 20 frames not 29. It takes 9 frames for him to throw the boom then subtract that from the total frames which is 20.
Yeah I guess business elbow is pretty ridiculous vs Guile. But it’s not gonna punish. You’d have to already be in the air when he throws the boom to punish it.
See but doesn’t ducking have recovery even if you do it empty? Won’t you miss some punishes if you do an empty ducking because the followups would be faster than waiting to recover and then doing say s.hk?
Well I was actually talking about both kinds of ducking, reaction and anticipation. Obviously if you do it on reaction you’re not gonna punish. But you might get a chance to hit him with a followup or something. At least if you get him to block a followup you’re pushing him to the corner and potentially getting a hit.
Even if the business elbow doesn’t punish you still get him to block and you can work your mix-up from there though.
Right, and since it’s such a great jump in it would have a better chance of stuffing a flash kick or cr.HP, which would probably beat a duck.
Alrighty gents, Vega:
This one im uncertain of, I know you can focus the wall dive (claw) however, most decent Vegas are all to aware of that fact, and they are going for the throw. However, if you dash/ducking, his “throw” ends up being the “claw” and tags you at dash range (I had some success with rh ducking to get waaaay out).
This creates a really scary situation, akin to Elf on wake up, except from what I have seen (Albiet its not much, I run into Vegas once in a while) with very little success with dashes, some success with basic AA moves, but, as I mentioned, if he goes for the throw (and he will) those dont seem that effective.
Same kinda deal for Air to Air attacks.
Does jumping MP work well with this? I tried jump mk, but it seems too short to get the job done. Does the elbow stuff the dive if done early in the jump? An EX DP hits (wasnt thrown out of that one at all) but others get snagged.
Its pretty much impossible to set this up in training mode (due to the button timing for Vega, hard to replicate a smart loop in record), does anyone have a go to reaction to deep dives?
Im new here at SRK, i use to main Boxer (Balrog) on vanila SF4 but now picking up Dudley, I havent read through the entire thread so i don’t know if anyone has covered this, but i know that Dudley’s cr.hk beats out Balrogs wakeup headbutt which is a good surprise tactic for Boxers that don’t know this by standing outside Boxers cr.lp range will sometimes bait out a headbutt where you can sweep him up into ducking upper or straight xx ultra/jet upper or wateva.
It depends on a lot of factors. The most important one is the angle of the dive. If he is moving diagonally you can jump back hp (usually this is from when he walldives from far away).With Gouken, Ryu, and Seth I can beat it 99% of the time with jump back mp. If he is above you it gets a lot harder. You can’t jump, he’ll just grab you anyways.
AA moves are the most effective option vs the throw. Remember, he has to be really close to you to throw you. Balrog can cr.hp him all day if he goes for the throw. Well, he can get around it and still throw you, but it’s really hard and if you just wiggle on the ground you’ll win anyways. Honestly the biggest point is to just make sure that you move before he gets close to you. If you can throw off his spacing just a few training mode tiny squares and then do your AA normal you’ll do well. Looking at the hitboxes that we just got I think cr.hp is the best candidate because it hits directly above you, which is where Vega is going to be.
Have you tried mp/hp MGB to escape? It could be useful, perhaps even on wakeup. I know that Sagat can use f.hk to escape a lot of walldives.
I would imagine st.MK would be a great tool against Vega’s wall dive.
Back swing blow could work too.
Once again, great posts acclaim.
Also check this out:
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6809399 (skip to about 29 minutes in).
Marn taking out a Chalsim with extensive use of Stand HP and Step Straight!
wow.