1)he walked up and you used cst.mp to get some space between you and him. Meaning not enough charge was built so it doesn’t matter.
2)you did meaty cst.mp, in which case you could have done cst.hp and then done cr.mp xx EX FBA as your follow up.
However mp.RCF is god, was don’t know how good this is with the loss of CH, when
you mixed up your block strings and caneled a cr.mk into mp.RCF (cr.mk being 8 frames gave you plenty of time to charge a RCF) to chip or frame trap an opponent. this pressure could make an opponent stop using normals in between your gaps allowing for the Cosmic Heel and normal throw + kara throw to be much more efficient.
This is my point. If you can do cl.MP, you can cl.HP, so why bother with cl.MP when you have better chance of doing cl.HP and getting MUCH more out of it.
Yes, however, cst.hp sometimes is to slow so he does have a point no matter how situational it may be. But trust me its better off if you just let this one die, you won’t get far against somebody who thinks being -1 is a ideal situation (being that spacing Cosmic Heel at 0 means you will whiff on half the crouching cast eating shit).
and it does fall under the risk vs reward thing (at least that’s what im getting out of his argument). cst.mp xx mp.RCF is safer and the reward is almost as good. But i can be wrong, he either is a really really good troll, or typical down back Vega Cosmic Heel was never really good to begin with type.
@Kouyruu
that sounds interesting, perhaps
1)cr.mp pushes people back less? (iffy on this)
2)cr.mp cancels faster
3)hit box buff on mp.RCF
4)the over all hit boxes in this game (most probable)
First, you are putting words in my mouth. When did I say -1 was an Ideal situation? please go retrieve the post where I said that. I said that being at 0 (AE) is better than being at -1(Super), which is what it ends on if CH is done up close. I said that because I forgot when spaced properly in super Vega’s cosmic heel ends on +3 instead of -1 like normally. That was my only mistake in that conversation and I will own up to it.
Second, Cosmic heel IN SUPER is -1 on block in super. Not in AE fuck I wish it was -1 in AE at least it would still be safe.
Third, cosmic heel is not a tool I use very often during matches. lol I like using it ocassionally but The main time I use it is after a focus crumple. I like Cosmic heel> Ex launcher> izuna it looks cool.
Also if you want to talk about my playstyle Ask Vegaman, Cheep, and Maskednobleman. I’m not bad by any means just because you don’t play the way I do or don’t understand what I’m saying doesn’t make me bad. Why does everyone keep bringing my style of play into these arguements any damn way I haven’t tried to discredit the quality of anyone’s Vega so what’s is goin on here? lol
First, I never said you can’t play, in fact I was saying I didn’t and wouldn’t say that. I said you all keep trying to play me to the left like Idk what the hell I’m doing. You all are the ones questioning my playing style and stuff and acting like you know way more than I do.lol I find it funny How you have selective reading, and you miss the things you want to miss. I’ll show you what I said
Second, Why are you arguing with me and yet you are repeating what I just said WORD FOR WORD pretty much.lol
My post said It is -1 in super when close, but when Spaced properly it ends on +3. since you missed it the first time I’ll quote myself again
Next, If I get a crumple and my opponent is low on life why can’t I use Cosmic heel>izuna to finish the match off? Hell My normal crumple punish is cl hp> cr mp> izuna. it is a nice punish it sets up cosmic heel tricks or gets me a free untechable knockdown and a chance to get some chip or apply pressure (yum more free chips)
You really need to read my post before you respond to them, because you are arguing over something I said and you just repeated. Which i think is makes no sense and is a waste of time. I came to this team to join a community of good vega players and have fun not sit back not argue over dumb stuff. I have my wife to do that with.lol
Uh…When did I say you said that I don’t know how to play? You’re REALLY not reading my posts are you?
“I said that being at 0 (AE) is better than being at -1(Super),”
THIS is what I was grilling you for. That +0 is at Max range. I don’t see how you can compare frame data between max and point blank and go “I’d rather have this over this.” because close and max are two different things.
Eitherway, I give up trying to argue with you. There really is no getting through to that skull of yours no matter how many ways any of us here word it.
**First, you are putting words in my mouth. When did I say -1 was an Ideal situation? **
You answered this part, in the other thread you said 0 was an ideal institution. now like I told francy’s because of hit box issues a Cosmic Heel that nets you +0 is not ideal really possible because its asking to whiff. You are mostly going to space it so that you are at -1 or -2 because the punishment for whiffing Cosmic Heel is big.
**please go retrieve the post where I said that. I said that being at 0 (AE) is better than being at -1(Super), which is what it ends on if CH is done up close. **
I did, its in the “Its time thread”, any Cosmic Heel done in Super regardless of range is tons safer and better than this Shitty Heel in AE because the reward is high just like the risk.
I said that because I forgot when spaced properly in super Vega’s cosmic heel ends on +3 instead of -1 like normally. That was my only mistake in that conversation and I will own up to it.
Good, we got our foot in the door now.
Second, Cosmic heel IN SUPER is -1 on block in super. Not in AE fuck I wish it was -1 in AE at least it would still be safe.
What does this mean? Cosmic Heel in Super is never -1, its always +2 or +3. If Cosmic Heel is done in Super and you are getting -1 to +1 frames you are doing it to close and frankly you are doing it wrong. So
1)you are playing a moron who respects you to much at that range and doesn’t know the match up
2)you are doing it wrong. As a result you eat a ton of shit for it, and then proceed to use it every once in a while because you can’t comprehend how to use this tool. thinking that you can get “by” with out it.
Third, cosmic heel is not a tool I use very often during matches. lol I like using it ocassionally but The main time I use it is after a focus crumple. I like Cosmic heel> Ex launcher> izuna it looks cool.
Then you are not maximizing tool usage, therefore maximizing your predictability, and minimizing efficiency and mix up potential. Cosmic Heel is something you shouldn’t use every once in a while, its something you should be using as much as you cr.mp/mk/, cr.lp/lk, kara-throw, etc. (At least in Super, AE IDK WTF you can use to mount an offense, it certainly isn’t that shitty excuse for a replacement EX RCF)
EX FBA is a waste, if its style points you’re looking for it should be Cosmic Heel - EX ST. Especially since it maximizes stun and damage, and you where raving about stun with Vega.
But you know what looks cooler? The comment question of the day which is
Did you know FA Lv.2 xx Dash - cst.hp xx EX FBA not only does a lot of damage but is pretty bad ass. You want style points there’s your style combo which maximizes damage at the cost of about 100 less stun.
**Also if you want to talk about my playstyle Ask Vegaman, Cheep, and Maskednobleman.
**Like everybody (this includes me) in this thread you are average.
**I’m not bad by any means just because you don’t play the way I do or don’t understand what I’m saying doesn’t make me bad. **
What makes you bad, is that you are saying 0 frames at max distance is still good. When its not. Its not the grammer, and its not your playstyle, its you saying 0 is not bad when Vega because there is supposedly some mix up involved there when there isn’t. Buts its OK we all learn.
**Why does everyone keep bringing my style of play into these arguments any damn way I haven’t tried to discredit the quality of anyone’s Vega so what’s is going on here? **
Because if you aren’t doing Cosmic Heel as much as you are pressing all of your other buttons,
1)you are playing a high risk, low reward game of chicken (footsies) and thus being to safe. Yes footsies are needed but you need to have some sort of attack options and Cosmic Heel and ST are key to setting these up.
2)you are holding down back and mashing cr.mp (flowchart)
3)Im somewhat of an a-hole against those that mash cr.mp and call it a day. Thus im constatnly trying to tell other newer Vega players that cr.mp isn’t the only tool, and should be using all of your tools as much as any other.
BTW, its not you , its me.
P.S, its how you are phrasing your posts that confuses people, not grammar, not comma placement, not spelling, but phrase placement.
If you remember on the UYG Stream when you tried to fight Mosh… I was trying to tell you to use CH more effectively. Mosh is a pretty good sagat. but YOU coulda beat him if you were:
a. thinking during the match (i.e. analyzing what mosh was doing and working to figure out a strategy to counter him)
b. had more solid defense instead of pushing buttons
c. or given him a reason to not rush down at all… Mosh made a lot of mistakes that he kept getting away with over and over, and you let him.
In super you can mount some kinda offensive using CH. It’s not a rush down. but it’s an advantageous position you can put yourself into if your opponent has the life lead and is sitting there blocking daring you to attack and make a mistake. In AE you lose the ability to do that. Your only real option literally is to just “Poke and Run.” You cant safely mount any kind of offense, you cant sit there and play ultra defense because every other character can put you in a low risk high reward mixup situiation against you. So literally your entire gameplan revolves around serious footsies, being able to counterpoke, maintaining a life lead at all times, and not letting a single mistake go unpunished. to put it into perspective… In AE it takes a good vega player to beat an average scrub ryu/rog/cammy etc. It takes a phenominal vega player to beat a good shoto/rog/cammy etc. there’s maybe 3 or 4 vegas on the planet with the capability to beat choi/daigo/valle/wong/air/pr rog/ricky/fchamp etc. and that’s only potential. look at how makoto, tatsu, and Jozhear play. you might see something like what we’re talking about.
I’m not trying to call you out, I’m trying to point out that what I was telling you to do on stream is the same thing me and pedo are trying to tell you now. The mix up options that you have in super are gone in AE. You have a pretty decent Vega but the mirrors we did and you vs Moshtaba is about the extent of what I’ve seen of you. Which… you had the potential to win if you had used CH effectively and played a more solid Vega.
Francis… you cause me to rant too much
i Blame you
/end troll
**What does this mean? Cosmic Heel in Super is never -1, its always +2 or +3. If Cosmic Heel is done in Super and you are getting -1 to +1 frames you are doing it to close and frankly you are doing it wrong
**
No I’m going off frame data.lol if you do it at close range it is -1. I don’t use it up close that is a no no.
Did you know FA Lv.2 xx Dash - cst.hp xx EX FBA not only does a lot of damage but is pretty bad ass. You want style points there’s your style combo which maximizes damage at the cost of about 100 less stun
yeah I did and I love this combo.lol I was doing it yesterday against Cheep and Maskednobleman. When I could get a crumple that is.lol Damn those guys are tough to catch slippin.
I prefer to style with jhp> sthp> hp rcf. fadc>clp> clp/cmp> izuna most ballest shit ever I dare anyone to disagree.lol
**
like everybody (this includes me) in this thread you are average.**
Like I said above I’m not putting anyone’s Vega down, and I’m not put myself above anyone. I just feel as if everyone is trying to disrespect my Vega because I’m the new kid on the block. Trust me I respect you all and all I want is that in return.
**
Then you are not maximizing tool usage, therefore maximizing your predictability, and minimizing efficiency and mix up potential. Cosmic Heel is something you shouldn’t use every once in a while, its something you should be using as much as you cr.mp/mk/, cr.lp/lk, kara-throw, etc. (At least in Super, AE IDK WTF you can use to mount an offense, it certainly isn’t that shitty excuse for a replacement EX RCF)
**
EX FBA is a waste, if its style points you’re looking for it should be Cosmic Heel - EX ST. Especially since it maximizes stun and damage, and you where raving about stun with Vega.
**
I use Cosmic heel a decent amount but I could use it more. I just get afraid of getting predictable so I like to tie it in at different parts of my game. I especially like it toward the the end of games where my opponents won’t have much time to adjust to it, but I use it earlier in the game as well.
I like cosmic heel as a punish/pressure applicant/mind fuck.
Like I said above man I use izuna to start my mind games on wake up but trust me I EX ST after Cosmic heel a also. It just depends on if I feel I need to apply more pressure if so I use izuna. This way I can start wake up games or if I have the lead, just want damage, or need a bitch please move I use Ex ST after ch.
I am a very tactical player, I analyze everything.
Im somewhat of an a-hole against those that mash cr.mp and call it a day. Thus I’m constantly trying to tell other newer Vega players that cr.mp isn’t the only tool, and should be using all of your tools as much as any other. **
Well, need to be an A-hole to me then because that is not my gameplan because I learned on own that people can jump over that and punish.
Don’t just assume I’m a scrub.lol Like I said man I’m new here but not new to vega by any means.
Trust me man I enforce everything into my gameplan especially that sexy far mk:) love that thing. Vega’s ultimate fuck your fireballs.
**
2)you are holding down back and mashing cr.mp (flowchart)**
I pray to God you weren’t talking about me because that is veryyyyyy verryyyy far from the truth.
1)you are playing a high risk, low reward game of chicken (footsies) and thus being to safe. Yes footsies are needed but you need to have some sort of attack options and Cosmic Heel and ST are key to setting these up.
I was the person in the other thread saying that Vega uses Cosmic heel for pressure. Then Pai said NOPE VEGA IS NOT MADE FOR PRESSURE and I was like wtf then why do we use cosmic heel.
This is pai
THIS is what I was grilling you for. That +0 is at Max range. I don’t see how you can compare frame data between max and point blank and go “I’d rather have this over this.” because close and max are two different things.
Pai I’ll try to organize this so you can understand me because I guess I have been being unclear. I just said the exact same thing you just just just said.
this is mine I said that being at 0 (AE) is better than being at -1(Super), which is what it ends on if CH is done up close. I said that because I forgot when spaced properly in super Vega’s cosmic heel ends on +3 instead of -1 like normally. That was my only mistake in that conversation and I will own up to it.
I said being spaced properly it end on a 0 frame in AE
then I turned around and said I realize now that when properly spaced in Super it ends on +3
I also stated that I know I messed up yesterday because I compared close and far instead of far and far, and that was my mistake.
You still haven’t read my post properly. You are getting frustrated when we are both saying the exact same thing. You can’t grill me when you are doing nothing more than repeating what I am saying.lol
Pai I already admitted was wrong yesterday, and even earlier today.lol
when will you let it die.lol I get it now I had a dumb blond moment. (Vega color 10 right here)
