Hi Bguile,
Sorry, was on holiday.
“you are using far st.MP vs ken f.MK. i am not using this, but i’m interested in your results. i dont have the ability to try this out right now, but if you miss your st.MP what do you do? can’t ken counter, with for example, cr.MK x EX hurricane = huge damage? seems like with a big recovery like that that this move is risky as a counter poke. but maybe i am missing something. are other people using this? it’s -4 on block so i am not sure about this one.”
At about 3 charc spacing away, Ken can throw an anticipation f.mk to kick Ryu’s hado start up frame. The way to stop this is to throw an anticipative s.mp. If Ken throw the f.mk, then Ryu would hit his head as Ken moved forward, hitting him just before he kick. And no, Ken cannot reaction punish even if u whiff the s.mp at this spacing. He can only punish by taking risk through doing a anticipation hado or a anticipative tatsu to hit Ryu. That means you punish him if he guess wrong.
At 2-3 spacing, a s.lp then linked to c.mk fb would be appropriate.
“i dont use cl.st.MK very often. i didnt realize it was used so much. it does have a very fast startup, but it leaves you at -2 on hit and -7 on block. for a frame trap against a tech, the opponent would have to be mashing after the cr.LP - then even if you land it, you can’t punish because you are at -2. seems like using this move you would be trapping yourself because you are at negative frames after using it, whether you hit or miss… i dont really know where i can fit this in my game…this concept really makes no sense to me.”
That’s y i almost always cancel it into a fb and fadc through when you have 2 bar. To catch ppl counterattacking w norm and tech. Even if block you are at point blank range with frame advantage. As long as a move have good startup frame, it doesn’t matter. You can delay pressing the button. I frame trap with this by purposely pressing the s.mk 1-2 frame slower. You don’t have to press it fast to combo. It is +5 on hit. So you can press s.mk 2 frame slower and still combo if hit, and use it to frame trap on block as well.
Also, say after a jump in, you can c.lp hit confirmed, then s.mk-dp, since a c.mp would often miss a standing opponent due to knock back. Since you hit confirm with a c.lp, you don’t do a close mk if your c.lp is blocked. You do something else such as c.lp again or c.mp or close standing mp-fb etc. You only do it when it hit.
Each of ryu’s normal. close s.mp, close mk, c.mp, c.lk etc grant some special charasteristic. If you mix them up well enough, even though s.mk have frame disadvantage, opp would not dare to punish as he doesn’t know what’s comming. For example, I could do a s.mp then hado which is not punishable on block instead of a s.mk hado which is. But a s.mp hado pushes opp further back than a s.mk hado. I can follow up w a c.lp frame trap after the hado for s.mk block string but not for s.mp. A c.mp knock back more than s.mp for example.
“ok, i am missing something here. i use cl.st.HK against certain characters as a meaty. you say you wont have to use it as a meaty anymore, but it has a startup of 8. this means that the opponent can pretty much press any button and do anything to hit you during startup. i definitely agree this is a buff, only i am not sure it’s really that game changing and i’m not sure it will improve ryu’s already shit matchups…”
With the change, against charc like Chunli, you can potentially use block string c.lp c.lp and then close s.hk. If chunli attempt to backdash then she’ll be hit. If she poke back she’ll win (But I may frame trap with other block string so she gotta guess). The problem today is that even if my s.hk hit Chun li, suddenly the momentum is lost and situation is reversed. The frame disadvantage at such close range means that once it land, I became an defender from an aggressor immediately and no one wants to be pressured by Chun’s block string at this range. I would be forced to dp reversal, or simply block all Chunli attack as her c.lp would beat every non dp move I throw out after the blocked s.hk. Even a jump back could be hit by her air-air hp combo. That’s y I only use it as meaty. It grant less frame disadvantage. If my s.hk is blocked, then I’ll eat a combo. Thus today we can’t use the s.hk this way. Making s.hk combo-able also means that the risk I take for eating a combo during startup frame worth the risk. I just hope it is dp ultra juggleable (like 1 hit forward j.mp). Chun’s backdash, along with dhalsim and some others is a get out of jail free today due to this. With this buff then they wont be able to get away that easily now.
“imo, this nerf is total bullshit. starting rush down with f.HP is not abusable at all. blocked f.HP leaves you at 0 advantage, so there is no rush down afterwards. this move was ryu’s best counter against players who abuse focus attacks.”
I abuse this move all the time. You could for example, c.mk opponent and knock him back slightly and do a f.hp (he have to be careful I may forward dash and throw instead of f.hp or walk fwd and c.mk again, or cancel the c.mk into fb etc also). If he doesn’t have a move that have a longer reach than my c.mk (not many charc have it) and pressed any button, then he will eat the f.hp. Even if blocked, the small gap of f.hp at this range means that Ryu’s 3 frame fast c.lp grant him an advantage. Not many charc have 3 frame start up. If you have 2 meter bar then he would have to think abt your dp fadc follow up. Ryu reach the distance close enough to caused lots of mix up (c.lp to whatever mix up, cross up tatsu, dp) after the f.hp.
You can also c.mp then walk back then f.hp etc. There are tons of set up. But the idea is that Ryu does gain an advantage if the f.hp is blocked with a slight gap between the 2 charc. This small gap which is bigger than the permissiable throw range, disallow opponent to throw after the block so he can’t escape by tech, or threaten to throw, and is forced to block or backdash (which can be punished by reaction, except chunli’s and other long backdash distance charc which have to be punished by anticipation move like a fb. If you don’t do anything, you don’t take damage. And there are many options that dish out damage to opponent and is completely safe for ryu. But for opponent, they risk damage in whatever option they choose). If you watch videos of rushdown style ryu players, you’ll see them abusing this move a lot.
“they actually fixed his ground EX hurricane kick as that was the one that was acted so randomly. this was a typo on the list.”
Yes I know. The ground ex-tatsu is supposed to be fixed long ago I meant =)
Maybe can still kill Fei… maybe… ? please… ?