SSF4 AE Ryu

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
181

i think the most usual situations are when you are hit confirming, then you have c.lk xx clp then something else to cancel into ex tatsu, or c.mp, something else then tatsu.

Id prefer to still have the random ex tatsu and to use c.mk xx ex fireball when the enemy gets too far at the end of a string than to have an ex tatsu that I know will hit the 5 hits everytime.

Remembering that they probably wont change the first hit of it, they will get asured that once one of the hits get in, all the subsequent ones will get in aswell. So all those strings when the ex tatsu dont connects at the first hit but does at the second or third, will probably still not work, the first hit will not to connect due the distance.

Considering everything, I definitively prefer the old one. Even if they do something about the missing first hit of the ex when the opp. is too far or in certains hit stun animations.

182

The thing I think people overlook about close standing medium kick is that it starts up in 3 frames. You can 2 frame link into it from Solar Plexus Strike. Compare to linking into crouching fierce, which is a 1 frame link lol.

I consider 2 frame links pretty easy to hit as long as you practice them. Even Daigo has occasionally missed Solar Plexus -> crouch fierce, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he took advantage of this particular buff.

183

^ thats a pretty fair point in relation to that one specific combo, yah, it might have uses in other combos too. Depends how much damage it does in the end, I guess. i kinda like hitting the 1-frame link though, its a challenge to be consistant with it (especially with my internet connecton ATM LMFAO).

184

Just my $0.02:

Normal buffs: Interesting. I get this impression there is a lot of potential with these changes but it’ll take some lab work to fully understand. I’m optimistic about these.

Removal of coward copter: I think this is kind of a bad habit which we Ryu players have gotten into, tbh. Its removal does not sadden me (although I promise I’m gonna try to do it myself a couple times and it’s not gonna work…lol)

Cr. MK change: This is definitely the one which most concerns me. At the very least, I’m apprehensive about this. I want some hands-on time with it to see what all it affects.

185

for average skilled players it may be interesting in certain situations, but for a top player, someone that dont misses taht link, its useless. Its just something to make a few newbs happier.

And when I say a few situations i really mean a few situations, once its barely worth of use when comboing togheter with a FA and/or an ultra due the damage scaling (not that the FA3+SP+c.HP+DP+U1 combo is waaaay more worth than the combo w/o c.HP, it does 507dmg against 491dmg, but its less worthless than the 494dmg the combo with cl.MK does against the 491dmf the combo w/o cl.MK does).

And we dont overlooked it, i think we’d talked about it a few posts ago.

186

This-

And yeah ryu is gonna have a harder time escapeing from the corners, then again its not that often i get put into a corner so it dosent effect me very much. Still wondering what they meant with the c.mk changes though.

187

i dont think removing the escape air tatsu will harm ryu much at all. it probably seldom gets used by good players and theres plenty of other characters who have a much harder time getting out of a corner than ryu does.

188

:wink: i should huh. and YES regarding ground ex tatsu. i was actually slightly excited about the air ex tatsu as any new updates = fun testing times.

rumor has it evil ryu is 100% confirmed for AE. i wonder if he’ll be more akuma than ryu as his previous versions have been.

as for 2f vs 1f combos, most high level ryus except valle (hahaha) will almost always go for the c.fierce combo because plink makes it easier and damage is worth it. maybe the damage buff on c.forward will make it a more reasonable tradeoff? it will also be very range dependent, so maybe even with damage buff it might not be used outside of crumple combos. shrug we’ll see.

189

? Far Standing Medium Punch is now Special Cancelable.
Great buff. The problem with this move is that it’s damage is too low + it doesn’t have enough knock back. It is the only decent move that hit other moves like ken’s f.mk, Zangief s.lp/mp. The longest move that is on standing height. All other normal can’t subsitute it’s usage. Today I have to jump back even after beating Ken’s f.mk with it for example, due to the low knock back and not being able to cancel it into fb. This would even out the odds.

? Close Standing Medium Kick damage increased. This took off 70 life in SSF4.

Very good buff. S.MK is one of the most impt move in high level play. The diff between s.mk and other move is that it moves ryu slightly forward to continue the pressure. Since it cannot be cancel off lp/lk, it can be used as a frame trap as well. I use c.lp, s.mk, fb, fadc, (c.hp,dp or c.mp, c.hp, tatsu). You would notice, that nothing will allow you to fadc and c.hp + DP after a c.lp. This take off huge damage on ppl whom attempt to tech. Even if block, it places me right beside opp again (almost 0 distance) which I could pressure more. At the moment this is about the only use of s.mk due to it frame disadvantage on block. With this buff, ryu would be an even more rushdown beast. It would be the only frame trap that doesn’t push opponent back much and beats the hell outta jump escape etc. The question is really how much frame improvement we would be having.

? Close Standing Hard Kick has more frame advantage on hit and block. You can Link into a Shoryuken now with it.

Absolutely game changing buff. meaty c.HK is Ryu’s best move up close that beats everything including backdash and is safe on block. Ryu have a hard time dishing out decent damage to far backdashing charc. This would change that. To improve it’s frame data means we can use it up close to beat backdash attempt while rushing down (instead of meaty) and still continue to pressure even when blocked unlike now. This would be a beastly change. I hope they give a 0 frame disadvantage on block at least for this move. This would beast the hell outta ppl. A -1 would make it good.

? Decreased Crouching Medium Kick’s active frames.
c.mk long active frame is very good but too abuseable. Leading to easy huge damage. This is the one that really make ryu simple to use and is abuse by all mid-low level players. Agree to take that out. Besides, a quicker recovery of c.mk is much better for high level play. That may allows dp jump in attempts on c.mk (currently not possible if opp jump at exact timing which ryu c.mk). And it is easy to beat rog’s dash punch with even just 1 active frame on reaction, but is dangerous on anticipation due to long recover of c.mk. Either block dash punch with mid spacing between us or hit him w anticipation c.mk. I like that idea. Currently being hit by dash punch on recovery is a threat.

? Towards + Hard Punch (Dash Punch) damage decreased. This took off 120 life in SSF4.
Pretty okay nerf. Dash punch is way too useful and is the start of rushdown. Can be abuse by strong players. A nerf would be about right.

? Jump arc nerfed on his Air Hurricane Kick. It’s more difficult to run away with this, but crossups with it will be more ambiguous.
Judging from other charc changes, this nerf is okay. All the normal buff also eliminate the necessity to escape. Ryu would be an absolute rushdown, zoning, footsie beast that everyone one to runaway from (like Zangief) so there’s no necessity for escape.

? EX Air Hurricane Kick will no longer miss last few hits.
Should have been fixed long ago.

PS: Really have to play the arcade version or know the detail frame data to know for sure how much are the normal improved. Future seems bright though. Potential S tier.

I would have really like them improving the close mp also, making the block advantage better and hit confirmable. But I guess that would make ryu invincible with the already mentioned changes hahaha =p

190

Hi Ryu players.

There were several Q&As in today’s dev blog, and Ryu was one of them.

To the point, his LP SRK now has 1~3f as grounded and 4f~ as airborne, so it’s now possible to do trade SRK into U1. Of course, from what my friend sees it means that he now has a potential to eat full combo during SRK’s active frame.

191

What does this mean? Did his light punch DP get worse? More recovery?

192

@Dakilla

His LP SRK currently has:
1~2f - invincibility, grounded
3f - first active frame, airborne
4f~ - airborne

the first active frame has changed into grounded status, so it’s possible to trade LP SRK like it did in vanilla.

193

They’re honestly second guessing themselves on that change? Wow.

Also, apparently they’re bridging the OTG frame gap in many character’s backdashes? I hope to hell that ryu is included in that. This was a pretty big, and little known, liability for many of the characters that had it.

194

stanzza you seem very optimistic which is cool…
i have a bunch questions about these though: anyone can reply to these as i’m just curious about some of these strats that i havent been using.

you are using far st.MP vs ken f.MK. i am not using this, but i’m interested in your results. i dont have the ability to try this out right now, but if you miss your st.MP what do you do? can’t ken counter, with for example, cr.MK x EX hurricane = huge damage? seems like with a big recovery like that that this move is risky as a counter poke. but maybe i am missing something. are other people using this? it’s -4 on block so i am not sure about this one.

i dont use cl.st.MK very often. i didnt realize it was used so much. it does have a very fast startup, but it leaves you at -2 on hit and -7 on block. for a frame trap against a tech, the opponent would have to be mashing after the cr.LP - then even if you land it, you can’t punish because you are at -2. seems like using this move you would be trapping yourself because you are at negative frames after using it, whether you hit or miss… i dont really know where i can fit this in my game…this concept really makes no sense to me.

ok, i am missing something here. i use cl.st.HK against certain characters as a meaty. you say you wont have to use it as a meaty anymore, but it has a startup of 8. this means that the opponent can pretty much press any button and do anything to hit you during startup. i definitely agree this is a buff, only i am not sure it’s really that game changing and i’m not sure it will improve ryu’s already shit matchups…

if they only decrease the active frames, then the overall move length will decrease as well. good point here. this could work out pretty well against characters like rog, dudley, maybe adon etc…

imo, this nerf is total bullshit. starting rush down with f.HP is not abusable at all. blocked f.HP leaves you at 0 advantage, so there is no rush down afterwards. this move was ryu’s best counter against players who abuse focus attacks.

i guess we have to wait and see how ambiguous this will really be. seems to me this sucks.

they actually fixed his ground EX hurricane kick as that was the one that was acted so randomly. this was a typo on the list.

i hope you are right, but i really doubt it. i think ryu is moving down even lower because his bad matchups arent getting any better. with cammy’s nerf she is going to have a really hard time vs ryu too, but that is the only character i see getting worse against ryu.

195

i’ll buy a ticket to Japan if they do something to his Hadoken! will buy a samurai sword first and then will be heading to capcom to make them feel my pain

196

I’ve already started to use some of these (what will become) “buffed normals”, like cl.HK, far st. MP and whatnot, to get into the habit. I might start liking these changes.

197

uhhhh… did anyone else notice how all of Fei Long’s changes are buffs? Can anyone say “S tier”? Such utter BS.

198

i agree, fei long does seem like he is going to be very strong, but buffs are usually hard to figure out without testing. remember everyone crying about hakan before super came out.

nerfs, on the other hand, are very easy to predict. when characters lose things, you can usually see the implications right away.

i will say that of all the reports so far, fei long looks like he got buffed the most.

ken also looks like he’s going to be really strong.

rufus U2 getting fixed a little is good.

overall, i dont know what is going on with ryu. i guess all the crybabies on Eventhubs are going to get their wishes and ryu is going to suck :(. :mad:

capcom should take a hint from blizzard if they want to make a competitive game that has serious lasting power. if all the characters were close to evenly matched, then counterpicking and tiers wouldnt matter so much. they should have made this game easier to tweak through downloads. why does every capcom game have to have an s-tier?

199

My interpretation is that they’re keeping the duration of the move the same, by converting some active frames to recovery frames.

If they shortened the duration, c.mk would gain additional advantage on block/hit, unless they changed its hitstun to compensate. That seems less likely to me.

200

m16ghost: Yes. We went through that earlier in the thread.

To recap…

Street11 is apparently the translator for the posted update notes.

c.mk block stun is 13 and hit stun is 16. Non-EX hado becomes active and is able to connect on the 13th frame. Reducing block stun would cause c.mk XX hado to no longer be a block string combo.

I’ll admit that there’s a remote possibility that they just don’t want the block string anymore. But as that is so unlikely to happen, it appears to me that c.mk will very likely have less overall duration and better frame advantage.

They could also reduce the startup of hados to compensate for a reduction in block stun. But that seems like such a major change that its omission from the update notes makes it extremely unlikely.