I played a long set with some random chun at first I was doing option select sweep after a knock down but she would always do focus backdash which makes it so that my sweep doesn’t come out so I stopped doing that she started doing the stupid flip kick. I just want to know if theres some os that stops everything.
hazan shu is airborne on the second frame so throw will only beat it if it’s meaty, any normal that hits at waste height or higher such as cl.hp will beat it too, it doesn’t even have to be meaty since hazan shu has over 20 frames of start up. since you can throw her out of hazan shu on the first frame you can play a standard throw or strike mix up on her using cl.hp as catch her teching or doing a hazan shu. the problem with cl.hp is that if you don’t have any frame trap opportunities afterward, you always have to cancel the cl.hp with hadoken to make it safe which brings the situation back to neutral where chun has the advantage. You can try going for a cr.mp instead but I think it has to be meaty to beat hazan shus.
The main problem isn’t her hazan shu, it’s her back dash. The jab os sweep doesn’t even work half the time because of how far and how fast she back dashes away and she can do the focus back dash you described to beat it 100% of the time anyway. Throw will beat the focus back dash unless they do a four button tech (lp+lk+mp+mk) but that activates red focus if they have two meters so it’s a costly option sometimes. Cl.hk actually beats all of these options but it’s difficult to time since it’s so slow and if you hit them during an airborne state the reward is pretty low (50 or 60 damage).
Instead of doing the jab os sweep you can try going for a meaty cr.mp and reacting to what she did. If she did a back dash then take a small step forward and sweep, if she did nothing then go for a frame trap or throw. Since cr.mp is +2 on block you can even take a small step regardless of whether or not she back dashed which would allow you more time to react with the sweep.
double post
I went in the training room and found you can dp her hazanshu.
It’s quite easy but also risky if you’re playing a heavy footsies game.
I crouch and hold back but I spam the input motion for dp without pressing the button, the second I see that ***** airborne, she getting a dp. you could also cr.mp, st.mp or jab even. It’s hard to react to but if you go to the training room, familiarize how the move starts up and looks, you can stop it.
I gues the best solution is learn how to do a crouching dp and punish accordingly. Or learn when she’s going to pull it off and hit her with a st.mp. She has no other overhead so consider this a blessing.
I just watched PR Balrog abuse Abel players by just constantly spamming jab and the Abel players couldn’t do shit. Will this work using Ryu’s jab? And if it works on Abel will it work on other grapplers like Hakan and Zangief?
yes and no, rogs far.lp is faster than Ryus. +5 on block as opposed to ryu’s +2 and reaches further making it more abusable. If you were to use cr.lp you would be in range of command throws so as along as the abel has meter its a risk to try frame traps. Grapplers command throws are alot faster to startup so i assume it would less effective against a churning grappler.
All of this aside pressuring with jabs isn’t bad, it will limit the opponents options but it isn’t completely risk free.
Ok damn it. I hate abel players with a passion I still can’t figure that character out. Thought this tactic might be the trick. Anyway I noticed that PR Balrog didn’t even pressure with jabs anymore when he faced the same Abel again in the actual tournament. Weird it worked the first time why not do it again.
What issues do you face when vsing Abels? From my experience there’s are only a few things you need to use to be a really good Abel. Abel’s game is completely knockdown and vortex/mixup based, note the things that lead to these situations (arranged in importance):
a) step kick (his number one move)
b) command throw
c) sweep
d) antiair
Prevention is better than cure, avoid these and half of you’re headaches will disappear, trying to avoid a step kick vs a good abel is alot easier said than done however. Remembering back to the vanilla days when Wong vs Daigo Ryu vs Abel, daigo used premptive cr.mp to check abels stepkick, dance outside of his stepkick range, cr.mk approaches and step in check cr.mp, do note however this can be whiff punished if the opponent is looking for it.
Backing up to the jab pressure, step kicks startup is 7frames so being +2 and jabbing will make it hard for an abel to slip a step kick in amongst them if you keep the gaps tight, this leaves the abel having to either take it or risk going for something high risk/reward like a command throw or armoured special.
St.lk is a noteworthy normal for abel as its very quick and has good range, 5frame startup, 0 on block and +3 on hit, often abels use this as a low risk poke followed immediately by a stepkick to get in.
If the Abel gets in your basically screwed if they know what they’re doing, having played abel at a basic level getting a knockdown all the opponent can do is guess and hope and pray that its right, of course you can read into what the Abel will use depending on what he’s used previously, after a few sets you’ll get a bit of an idea what setups they know. Having faced an Abel that knows a lot of good setups and how to execute them the Abel can severely limit what escape options you have.
Record replays set to record in training mode and find your escape options, sometimes it feels as though out of all the options only one will work.
Thanks. Are fireballs even useful in this match? He just absorbs them till he gets ultra. btw do you know if close st.mp will punish a blocked step kick? I saw daigo doing this with e.ryu but I don’t know if it works with regular Ryu. I don’t have time to test it I play this game sparingly these days.
Air just tweeted that Ryu beats Poison is this nigga smoking crack? He says his fireball is better but when I try a fireball against Poison I always end up getting flip kick grabbed into her safe little fireball set up.
according to the frame data step kicks 0 on block, im assuming this frame data takes the dash after into account, so no can’t punish it. Having used abels step kick a fair bit I’ve never been hit out of it on block its always counterhit or block string because cl.HP is 4frame startup, not much is going to beat that apart from a perfectly timed 3f like cl.MP (probably where it came into use) or an invincible reversal.
he on crack
at near full screen Poison tries to win the fireball war by throwing slow fireballs which have very little recovery followed by a faster fireball. however, if Poison throws her slowest fireball and stands there waiting, Ryu can throw a fast fireball that just misses the slow fireball, Poison does not have time to respond with her own fireball due to the speed of Ryu’s fireball. This is the only real advantage Ryu has in the fireball war. At mid range Poison can flip kick over or jump over Ryu’s fireballs. Since her flip kick is safe she basically has a safe option to prevent you from throwing fireballs, similar to Adon.
Against Viper:
- Low forward low profiles her burn kicks
- Focus against her non-crossup burn kicks
- You can crouch tech while option selecting low forward, to beat out burn kick/throw on your wakeup
- Cancels into thunder knuckle aren’t true block strings, make sure to challenge with DP if she’s abusing them.
- Most Viper players NEVER block on wakeup.
Ibuki’s overheads are positive on block, but it’s like a 30 year startup. Make sure you hit her out of it. Try to avoid blocking it.
[quote=“LiangHuBBB, post:416, topic:129797”]
what am I supposed to do vs this?
my match up knowledge is basically 0 still I thought I would have done better, but having trouble to get close or get out of the corner
is this a 5/5 MU?
Juri beats Ryu. In fact, Kreymore said that it was a 7-3 matchup before ultra. She just has way too many ways to beat outzone.
- Juri definitely wins the neutral game.
- This matchup ends up coming down to a lot of walking and blocking. Walk her to the corner. AA. Shut her shit down and don’t let her out of the corner.
- You generally want to stand around her standing roundhouse range. If she has no fireballs stored, that’s usually the button she throws out. So either whiff punish that or focus it.
If you’re talking about hozanshu, just focus dash forward and that’s a free max damage combo right there. I main E Ryu, so I get a shit ton of damage off that.
No, Juri has to take more risks to do any damage to Ryu. You already know how to play the match up, I don’t know why you think its in her favor. Btw, Juri does not win neutral, that is what makes her lose the match up. She has to dash in, jump in or fireball chip, with no reliable way of getting in for free like a dive kick (try getting a perfect one of those that doesn’t push Ryu out of throw range), step kick, safe approaching special or abusable positive normal with walk speed. Kreymore is just scrapping Ryu’s because he’s Kreymore, but I’d put money on Choi, Valle or Air any day in the Juri match up. Try playing the match up from Juri’s side.
She got 2 important buffs that make this more of a 5-5 than a straight win for Ryu, 1. Ex dive buff, but its no Ex cannon spike 2. You can’t throw her out of her reversal anymore so you have to respect her wake up, maybe.
Juri is a shoto killer.
Juri wins neutral. She doesn’t need to jump in, she doesn’t need to dash in. Store fireball negates Ryu’s fireball. Throwing fireballs trades in Juri’s favor. If you throw a fireball from too far, free dive kick. Dive kick in footsies leads to ultra 2. Low forward, EX Fireball, FADC leads to ultra 2. Jumping strong leads to juggles and ultra 2. Low forward and sweep have ridiculous low profiling abilities that help her in the spacing where Ryu might want to throw a close fireball.
Why would Juri want to go in? She outzones Ryu.
OBVIOUSLY, Choi, Valle, and Air are much better players. Put them against Aiai, though. Aiai is much closer to their respective levels than Kreymore is.
Everything you said in your shoto killer paragraph is negated by a little something called sweet spotting. It has always been juri’s biggest weakness. As like one of the few characters Ryu can actually out walk, its easy to sit around her stand roundhouse tip and bully her with solid play. If she approaches, walk back as she doesn’t have a slide. If she retreats, collect your space. If she does anything do a delayed jab. Delayed jab lets you stuff dashes, block stand roundhouse, buffer dp to anti air and generally see what your opponent likes to do. Nobody can react to Ryu’s fireball at that range, but Juri runs the risk of being punished for a fireball charge or release. Ryu has the advantage because it is easy to get to that spot and the only real threat juri has is ex fireball fadc into pressure or a mix up. Her fireball game can’t keep him out of that spot because he is not trying to go in on her which is what all the angles cover ( herself ), he is trying to get into that position which basically negates all of her zoning AA options. If she ever fireballs, ryu can simply avoid it and walk/land into position. Then play solid until she cracks. Just like all of Ryu’s good match ups, it is slow, boring and Ryu always runs the risk of being mauled because of one mistake. But that is the world Ryu players live in, live by solid play to die by one mistake.
Good points, but that spacing is a lot harder to maintain than you’re making it out to be. Also, a delayed jab is a good answer, but a mistimed jab leads to a bigger reward for Juri than it does for Ryu, so she’s going to start baiting out that delayed jab, similar to pre-emptively throwing out stand jab or short against Yun to beat out dive kicks. He’ll adjust his timing, and one mistimed normal will lead to him running the Yun train on you via whiff punish, although of course Juri’s damage and pressure are nothing compared to Yun’s.
I honestly do like the points you’ve made, but I’m not convinced that Ryu wins the neutral game. Do you mind linking me to some matches that showcase optimal utilization of the sweet spotting you’re mentioning?