I think my explanation was more in-depth and detailed.
LOL
Just a quick unrelated tidbit.
Hugo has been free as hell so far.
He has 2 flips, both invincible.
One is a single back flip which is punishable with anything (he moves only slightly back) and the other is a double back flip which you have to punish with ultra 1, tatsu or walk forward crouch forward/roundhouse. They look and I believe sound different. Go to training and listen. As for the visuals, if Vega flips and he doesn’t touch the floor, its the single flip so be ready to punish that one first. If you see him touch the ground with his hands, immediately ultra 1, tatsu or walk forward than attack…
Like weapon said, OS your jump ins if he is doing that on his wake up (usually with tatsu)… Tatsu OS can get beat by his EX DP so there is no perfect answer…
Zonk is - 8 and ex is - 7, your timing was off. Sweep is 5 frame start up, try punishing earlier and don’t forget to plink…
I am having a lot of trouble against Poison, even pretty ramdom one. I feel I getting outzone, seem like she has instant recovery on her fireball when I make a good jump in. I find its hard to anti-air her and also her hitbox feel very small in general. Anybody has any good advice on that match-up its getting a little frustating.
Poison is gonna be a pain in the ass. She can play a great keep away game, and will equal, if not best you in the fireball war. Her full screen fireball only has 30 frames of recovery, and her other two projectiles recover even faster (27 and 20 frames, but slower start up then the lp version). I think that’s a little OP to have that kind of recovery and not have to charge…I mean that’s better then Guile recovery wise. Long story short, your not gonna get a clean jump in on her when she is chucking her plasma unless you are psychic.
I honestly have only ran into a couple of day 1 poisons so I can’t give much else then that. Until there is more data I am just treating this like the Guile match-up. The only thing I can give you is if you get in you should win. Your normals are a lot better then hers, so you should have success frame trapping her.
Looks like Air was doing some homework…
https://youtube.com/watch?v=JG8vgaiF7Sg
He tests out the new characters against Ryu to see what can be punished.
A great tool that a lot of DeeJay players forget about for Ryu is his super. Every sobat kick blocked equals a free super. Some just rely on it to much for pressure that they lull themselves to sleep with it. They snap out of it for a while after they are picking themselves up off their backs from the super aftermath.
For those of you who have trouble with Rose, she is free on wake up. Stand next to her body and do crouch jab, then do the sweep OS and she is left with no options. You’ll always block EX spiral, you’ll always sweep her back dash and you’ll meaty any grab attempts. Her dp doesn’t hit grounded so if she does it, she’ll wiff and you can sweep punish. Sweep punishes let you walk back and do the jab to sweep OS again every time… Enjoy
What if she does focus backdash
You have to react. The math is:
rose’s back dash = 22 frames
wiff crouch jab total frames = 12 frames
crouch roundhouse start up = 5 frames
If you hit focus than wiff your next jab, press roundhouse… if you hit focus than jab hits again (which focus breaks) press roundhouse…
Whats the optimal distance for fighting guy?
Outside of crouch forward range, inside of crouch roundhouse range.
Match notes at that range:
You want to basically wiff punish with crouch roundhouse or take a step closer then push him back with crouch forward. At that range you should be able to jab or strong any dashes/runs and you can pre-buffer a shoryuken to stop any ex run attempts. Focus can be annoying, but as long as you don’t crouch forward into guy doing a preemptive focus, he should only get off a lvl1 attack have to backdash. If he dashes forward after a level 1 attack I’m pretty sure he is negative (online experience so, you know) so crouch jab will stuff everything but his EX hurricane, ultras and maybe his throw (not too sure though.) You should be close enough that what ever run attack he performs should get stuffed. Jump back roundhouse is my preferred method of AA, but it’s up to your discretion. You can still low profile his elbow but the timing is slightly more strict. You can also low profile his running over head that is a jump kick. There are two possibilities that happen when you do it right, but I don’t know why they happen. You will either both wiff or you will hit him and he will air reset. His anti hadoken move is not inv, so you can bait it and if you are sharp enough (or lucky) you can stuff his EX shoulder. His stand forward isn’t much of a threat unless you are trying to go in on him, than it can get annoying. A preemptive crouch strong counters it and you can hit confirm into sweep link. If he gets ballsy and walks in on you, his crouch short can be a problem. You want to trade or stuff that with your crouch short. His is better but you gotta do something.
How the hell do you fight Poison?
Almost exactly like the guile match up, if guile could take a 3rd of your life for one bar…
Read whatever guile match up information you can find than add it to this information. The only thing from the guile match up I think you should avoid is anything about focusing guile, as focus gets blow up by poison easily…
Fireball game is a bit more complex, but ryu still wins it, believe it or not…
Out of jump attack range (she also can’t hit you with her anti-fireball flip from there,) you can get a lead on the fireball game with fierce hadoken. In order to keep up she’ll have to switch to her shorter ranged fireballs. At that point, the guessing game of which fireball she does happens. If she doesn’t change she’ll eat a hadoken on her start up eventually. If she does change, you have to time your hadoken to pass through her fireball as it disappears. Eventually she looses when she chooses to her shortest ranged fireball and you time your fast hadoken to pass through it. At that point her next fireball will get stuffed so you have to react and punish or position appropriately. Poison seems to gain meter faster than ryu. Since her ex fireball is a problem, you need to make sure that once she has meter you hadoken as a response. If the player abuses the fact that you are responding a refuses to use poison’s ex, you’re going to have to take the risk to pressure with hadokens. Do so with care.
Footsie stuffs
She want’s to keep you out and her range is outside of your sweep. Her struggle is that like dhalsim, there is a range where if you jump if with a fierce punch, her dp will whiff if it isn’t perfect and her AA normals will get stuffed. I don’t remember that range off the top of my head, but go to training and figure it out. Seriously, learn that range; it will force her to stop committing, it will get you a ton of damage and finally, it will force her to either focus on movement or run away for fireball games. A good poison will walk in on you to force you to walk back out to that position. At that time your fireball footsie game should start to shine. Play it like a honda and focus on fakes and dp-ing her anti fireball flip/jump ins. If she’s smart, she’ll be out of range of your normals, if she’s not, bully her.
When she is in, you are in.
Her non-ryu style pressure is kinda garbo and it’s really just a game of will she bait a dp or eat a dp. She can do what ever she wants if she pressures into flip kick. Dp that bullshit ass pressure. I don’t think she has any normals that true block string into her flip kick. Maybe people are just greedy and not using the right one… Her jab pressure is actually what makes her dangerous. She has ryu style frame traps that combo into evil ryu style damage. She can do a jab and at that point you have to push a button to stop her from coming in or block and hope she pushes you out with more jabs. If she frame traps you and you pushed a button, she’ll go into ex rekka and some bullshit juggle. If you block, she can jab then walk in on you and mix up between her overhead option, flip kick, another jab or throw. I played Viscant’s poison online and he did some stupid simple frame trap that rocked a third or more of my bar and put me in a mix up situation in the corner. But like I said, when she is in, so are you. Her good pressure pushes you out quickly and she needs to take a risk to keep it up. If you push a button at the right time you should go immediately into your pressure, which is the same kind of pressure, only gimpier and without a flip kick. You should know how to pressure, so this section ends…
The match up as a whole…
Ryu can out fireball her, but it takes thinking (and being aware of her EX.) If you can’t do this, you have already lost the match. Once you force her to your jump in range, you have to give up space because she wants to be a little closer than that. You’ll naturally be going into the corner where she will pressure and destroy you. Use your combos to gain space or corpse hop to escape being cornered. You’ll also have to be bold and use your “escape getting cornered” gimmicks. If you can take the fireball game away and nullify her “in” game, the footsie battle will determine the outcome of the fight. Since she naturally corners ryu and becomes a problem with meter, I say that the match is 5-5 at the start of the round and naturally loses slightly as the match progresses turning the match to a 4.5 -5.5. I personally feel that most of the matches where ryu wins will be shorter than the ones where poison wins, so do your work quick…
This is all basic stuff, there are more advanced strats like OS’s and trading scenarios and shit, but this should help you develop your own advanced shit…
How does Ryu do against Yun? Furthermore, what are some specific techniques used to beat him?
la-pub-dans-les-films.fr/ryu/www.airryu.com/index5546.html?page_id=830
Still pretty much applies with the exception of that nothing will beat a blocked EX Lunge now, not even Super.
Also this:
Disrespect Yun. I like to whore out my risk reward in this match because most Yuns are derpy. If I block a dive kick, I am mashing DP (I don’t condone this, but sometimes you have to just say fuck it). I might eat a punish after they wisen up, but it will cause them to hesitate which can give you breathing room.
I suck real bad at that match up.
Know where he can shoulder and do your shimmy there.
If he gets inside that range, good luck. Yun’s most powerful tactic is neutral jump dive. You can fireball when he neutral jumps and doesn’t dive, but a smart Yun will shoulder through. If you are at crouch medium distance, you can force Yun to stay grounded by jumping towards and A2Aing him if he jumps (Yun’s dive kick has a height restriction.) There was a finals match between Momochi and Kazunoko where he did that a lot. Because Yun has low life, those single hits matter a lot in the round.
Where you can fireball, Yun’s jump is good and bad at the same time. His jump is pretty low and I think (no evidence) that he gains altitude slower than most characters. Fast hadokens tend to hit Yuns going up while his low jump tends to cause him to jump into a lot of slow hadokens. He obviously has a dive kick so most bad jumps can be corrected in time. Combine his lower than average jump with a ton of air control because of his dive kick and he’ll be in on you in no time, sorry…
When Yun is in, you have to deal with three types of pressure that are extremely powerful.
- He has Cody style frame traps because his normals move him forward and tend to be positive on block.
- He can do Rufus style dive kick cross ups at close range, your crouch fierce and/or dp will not save you if the Yun player has practiced.
- He can command grab your gdlk blocking.
It’s like a rock paper scissors of death. Attack the grab, get dive kicked. A2A the dive kick, get your jump frame trapped. Block the frame trap, get command grabbed…
Practice defending against those and good luck…
Ok, so where do you want to be?
Ultimately, outside of shoulder range so you can fireball. If he gets inside that (which he will,) you want to play an empty-ish style footsies game where you want focus on punishing his jumps. Try not to pressure on the ground too much because most committed normals will get dive kicked and then you die. You do have to make sure that when he gets close you mix up backing off with crouch forward or hadoken to keep him out. If you get an asshole Yun that wants to play grounded footsies with you, sweep punish him. Yun has no reach, unless he has already made contact with you, you are going to win a grounded footsie war. His best poke is his stand roundhouse and it really is only a counter poke. If you don’t do any predictable pokes, he’ll have to guess with his roundhouse and if he ever guesses wrong, sweep him. He can’t fadc his dp so go in.
In?
Yeah, so, you can try to be all Gdlk and Dieminion-esk by keeping Yun out the whole match, but you’ll just die after a mistake or two even if the rest of the round is perfect. Go in on Yun when you get your knockdowns and don’t let him escape without having to dp. You want him to take that risk so you can get your big damage baits. Jumping in on Yun is difficult because ex upkicks is a 4 framer. If he has no meter, you can safe jump him on wake up, but in neutral upkicks are too good. If your Yun cannot reaction dp, please proceed to rush him the fuck down (better him than you right.)
EX dash punch is a free in for Yun on block, please stuff that like a blanka ball.
I haven’t played an ultra 2 yun in a while, but I think that is his anti fireball ultra…
In all,
You want to be in safe hadoken range but yun will get in quick. Once he’s in, you can’t commit to much or he’ll dive kick and body you. Once he’s in, you have to rock paper scissors for your life. You’ll have to go in on Yun at some point in the match, you’ll have to make the most out of his inability to perform a safe dp. I feel like the match is pretty much controlled by Yun because you can’t keep him at safe hadoken range. Agressive Ryu is not as powerful as keep away ryu so I’m just going to say this match is straight 6-4. I’d pick Evil ryu for this match up because he can keep up with yun’s damage while Yun will still have to respect/disrespect the same ranges as the Ryu match up…
There’s a write up on the first page (from Air I’m guessing,) you should check that out because I’m not good at the match up as I stated in the first line…
Can someone sort of break down Ryu/Gief? Where does Ryu want to be, not be for spacing, successes, failures, etc?
On top of what is on the 1st page, you can add…
You want to be at a distance where you will be able to whiff punish geif’s normals and green hand. On the other hand, sometimes you have to walk up and bully him back with crouch forward. When he can EX green hand, there is a distance where if he EX green hand your fireball, the first hit will hit your out reached hands and the second hit will whiff your main hurtbox giving you the opportunity to punish (I guess that makes it a trade in your favor…) Lariat has a weakness right behind geif’s head, you can aim for it with jump fierce or cross up air tatsu, but a smart geif will lariat slightly later to compensate if they notice you are aiming for this spot. If you block anything other than jab, short or stand strong, punish with fierce shoryuken or shoryuken fadc ultra. You need to give up space (walk backwards) often to zone with fireballs, zone with hadokens/whiff punishes/crouch forward and attempt to switch sides before reaching reaching the corner without being obvious. The shimmy is very important in this match for two reasons: 1. it slows geif from walking you to the corner quickly (because you can threaten to poke for the pushback or jump for the corner switch) 2. it forces geif to push buttons to stop you from walking into his space and controlling the match (this is what you need for geif to do things you can whiff punish.)
What page can I find the c.viper information on? I have no clue in this matchup and I know there’s something I can do to keep her honest
Low profile air burn kicks, crouch forward her wake up (wake up ultra can beat this,) if she ground pounds your wake up do jab shoryuken. Throwing Viper on wake up is typically a no go. Cross up burn kicks are hard to angle correctly, for ambiguity. Most players will opt for timing (early or late on your wake up or air recovery) over angle, therefore, go to training mode and learn the timing of cross up burn kicks on your wake up. Also, one air burn kick (short) doesn’t move her at all, so lower level players will rely on that as their non cross up while using the other two to cross up which makes visually identifying cross ups a little easier. If the player knows how to angle correctly, you’re pretty screwed. Guess block correctly or try a focus escape. Execution heavy Vipers can poke you safely because they will spark cancel all their pokes. Trying to shoryuken between pokes is typically a bad idea vs them because the timing of the normals is like super positive or something (I get baited by them a ton.) If the viper does not cancel their attacks during strings, treat them like any other character and show them that ground pressuring ryu is a 50/50 gamble. You can hadoken a viper, but its a guess that should be rare. If you guess that they aren’t looking to punish a hadoken, its actually pretty hard to straight punish on reaction because ground pound is slow. Sometimes you can get away with hadoken, then because the ground pound punish is too slow, you jab shoryuken to make her punish whiff. When that happens, she eats the hadoken and the player is discouraged from trying to ground pound you on reaction. When it comes to neutral, viper doesn’t have remarkable footsies. Her crouch forward buff makes player think they can cancel to electric punch for free. They can’t, its not a true block string. At her crouch forward range, if you block it, buffer something a let it rip if she sparks. You can get baited, but that means that the viper knows she doesn’t get in for free. If she thinks she can jump in on you burn kicks or not, use your air 2 air skills. Burn kick air control can bait shoryukens too easily and leave you in a bad position on whiff as opposed to a jump back normal. You can also mix in a low profile, but if she chooses correctly, you will eat real damage into a mix up situation. A lot of viper stuff needs you to be at specific places to work, make sure you never stay still in this match up.
I believe the match up is 5-5. Ryu has low profile, and they are free to each other on wake up. Ryu can zone her out and play footsies. Her burn kick mix up knocks you down so she has to guess correctly a couple of times to do real damage and stun unlike the real vortex characters. Her life and stun also become an issue because when you are on the offense, you only have to guess twice (one for the second meter heavy combo and two for the last stun hit or stun throw.) With all that on ryu’s advantage, it all comes down to viper’s game plan still being stronger than ryu’s. Long matches should probably be in Ryu’s favor because he’s keeping her out and short matches should be in Viper’s favor because she is blowing him up. One last thing, Viper gets stronger over time because of all her ultra combos that are incredibly strong. I feel like it evens out because Ryu’s ultra options are almost all defensive. While she is trying to land her ultra, she opens herself up to getting shoyuken ultra’d in return. Her low life makes Ryu’s ultra options strong to her also…
Here is what I managed to copy/paste off of air’s old blog…
Ryu vs C.Viper
Viper:
Though this is an even match up (5:5), I would consider saying that instead of the matchup, you need to know your player better. Viper is more like a free style character especially when it’s against Ryu. Different Vipers reacts differently in certain situations. For example, when do a jump in attack…when they mash on burning kicks…how aggressive/ defensive she is…frame trap based or more on the vortex side…a lot to think when facing against her. In this guide I will briefly explain what you CAN do and CANNOT do against her.
Ground Game:
Far Range: Viper can take pretty good control at this range by using fake seismo to make you hesitate with fireballs. Observe carefully and if it is a seismo, Ryu can punish with Air hurricane kick or a ground roundhouse version hurricane kick.
Mid Range: Viper doesn’t have much footsies, so this is a pretty comfortable range for Ryu to poke with low forward. However, becareful for Ex seismo and Viper’s forward roundhouse kick (6hk, a 2 hit kick) does beat Ryu’s low forward clean, so beware. This is also a good range to throw fireball because it is hard to react to.
Close Range: When you get in this range…ALL Vipers will mash on burning kick to get out of poke strings and throws. Without a doubt it is a cheap jail break, but it is counter-able with fast reaction with SRK.
On Ryu’s Wakeup:
The most common mix ups are crossup/non-crossup Burning Kicks. As a matter of fact, this doesn’t bother Ryu too much on wake up if you can time your low forward perfectly to lower you body and evade the kick. This also allows you to punish/forces your opponent to block or tech (No matter what it’s in your favour). Good Vipers would know about this trick, therefore they would probably mix it up with the followings….
Jump forward roundhouse -> combo/burning kick
Jump forward short > burning kick
Over head
Ex Seismo
Throw
Note There might be more mixups that I am missing……
However, besides the jump ins, everything from ground is not scary nor works on Ryu. Let me explain….so first…whenever you do a low forward on a wake up, you would do it in this command (cr.lp+cr.lk+Cr.mk). This option select allows you to tech on wake up (Make sure you read my Fundamental guides if you don’t understand how this technique works), wake up low forward beats Ex Seismo and you might get hit by an overhead which does no damage.
Counter:
Thunder Knuckles: Can be beat by Mp SRK
Ex Version: Same as normal version
Burning Kick: All the normals that hit high and any version of SRK. Can use low forward to make this move whiffs timing is strict
Ex Version: Same as normal version + as long as you are in crouching position, this move whiffs.
Aerial Burning Kick: Low fierce, LP SRK/MP SRK and using low forward to make this move whiffs.
Ex Version: AH…I don’t know…never got hit by this out of a combo…………….
Seismo: ANYTHING!!
Ex Version: Standing roundhouse, any version SRK, low jabs (low attack into any OS)
Against Ultra 1:
This Ultra’s start up is quick slow and it’s usually used in combos. Although it can also be used as AA, so yah…don’t jump J
Against Ultra 2:
This Ultra starts up fast and it’s usually used as a DIVE KICK. As long as Ryu doesn’t throw reckless fireballs…I don’t know how Viper can land this besides from a combo…
Mind games and Option Select:
For a jump in attack OS, use fierce SRK which can beat all of her wake up options. And on ground wise, OS sweep would be the best choice because the only thing to worry about is his thunder knuckle. Standing roundhouse also beats Ex seismo clean, 2 hit also can hit Viper’s backdash, trades with thunder knuckles (Viper does not have time to juggle into any special moves/ultra) and can also beat burning kicks. By all means, only concern is a wakeup Ultra.
Similar to Chun Li when it comes to mind games. Mixup your safe jump OS with crossup jump ins and don’t forget crossup hurricane kick into super (if you have super meter)
There is also a little trick that you can do on Vipers wake up, a perfectly timed meaty low forward.
This trick allows you to shut down all her wake up options besides Ultra 1.
· Makes reversal uppercut Thunder knuckle whiffs
· Block reversal Ex Seismo
· Block reversal Burning Kicks
Things to be aware of:
Vipers can do pretty nasty frame traps like dashing forward instant Burning kicks/ Ex Sesimo and a delayed low fierce in Ex Sesimo. You got to look at her gauges and analyze to predict what her next move is on your and her own wakeup. In my opinion with this match up, I would rather take the throw and reset the situation like I mentioned before in my fundamental guides. Furthermore, Viper does have “not so great footsies” but her forward roundhouse kick can beat Ryu’s low forward clean. So beware and in this case, substitute your poke with low strong.
As usual, leave questions and comments in the box below or my facebook page.
And Merry X’Mas!!
Posted by Air at 5:33 AM 13 comments
Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest
Labels: Match Up
Came across this just now: