Do you mean a normal cancelled into SK or just SK? Because from my experience, if Bison is outside of his cr.lk range, I find cr.mp works very well to stuff his SK and even give you a counter hit, but I’m not sure how well this will work vs his normals (cr.mp, cr.mk, st.mk & st.hk).
Isn’t Bison’s slide too slow to catch any back dash in the game though? I also play Bison and just OS st.HK, which got nerfed too damage wise at the tip lol.
Its retarded how Bison just has to use 3 moves over and over to win, just cr.lk a lot with scissors and st.hk shuts down your escape options completely.
Yeah, but once you get a knockdown on Bison you can also go to town on him. I personally try to save my meter as any demon is so effective against him. Once you get a knockdown, palm demon shuts down 3 of his 4 options on wakeup. EX psycho, EX scissors, and teleport. He can escape with the devils reverse. Bison is an asshole to play against but you just gotta grind him out. Try not to let him get close and zone efficiently.
Not entirely true. To be honest Bison isvthe hardest to vortex out of the characters you can safe jump. For every OS you have he has an option to beat it.
The safest one is OS tatsu because we can’t punish it, but Ex stomp gets him out for free. Though if he tries to hit you with Devil’s reverse you will land out side his range and can possibly get a combo.
U1 can beat EX PC’s early startup frames, but I’m like 99% sure that if the palm was a true safejump (i.e not done too early) EX PC crusher will still beat it. I don’t see how how U1 will beat EX SK as well, I can only see U1 reliably beating backdash and teleport, but I’ll check these to be sure and report back.
I also find Bison with meter one of the most difficult characters to vortex, specially if you’re playing against a Bison that knows an answer for every option select you’d think of. For example the other day I played as Bison against a friend who plays Akuma, when I had meter, he thought I’d try escaping with EX PC and he would OS SRK and I purposely use forward teleport to so he’d land from his SRK near me waiting for a big fat punish.
It’s like Bison will mind fuck you as much as you’ll mind fuck him on wakeup lol
EX PC
EX SK
EX HS
EX DR
Backdash
Teleport (back and forward)
and of course, since you’re so eager to option select him, he can just black normally because he knows the chances of Akuma going for a cross up or DF throw aren’t very high lol. Recently I’ve been checking for more setups involving DF dive kick vs him, this can fully stuff EX PC to punish it with a huge combo and will make you land near enough to punish a teleport, gotta look more into it.
I don’t bother trying to vortex him on wakeup most of the time if he has meter. Going for empty jump low shorts or even attempting df kick or grab on wakeup is pretty unsafe. With meter its pretty much safejumping all around because I can’t do anything else.
it’s not exactly free for bison to get out of akuma’s option selects. you need to mix up your own option selects to beat his stuff - mainly tatsu to beat teleports and MP shoryu to beat devil’s reverse + psycho crusher. here’s a full list:
land a couple of option selects, and they’ll end up just blocking your stuff. once you let bison get away, then you’ll just lose your momentum and have to start all over with the knockdown.
and if the bison is doing really unsafe wakeups to beat your OS’s, like forward teleport and EX stomp, just mix up not option selecting and hit them with your biggest punish. it’s a bigger risk to them than it is to you
Isn’t EX PC invulnerable for his startup only? I mean, to stuff it we’d have to delay our safejumps?
Yeah the setup has to be delayed but not by much, eating a full dive kick combo is a lot scarier to a Bison player then OS SRK or crappy tatsu damage against his EX PC IMO.
Though if Bison gets comfortable using EX Psyco on wake up U1 OS will put an end to that.
Actually in my experience if a Bison player has meter they always look for a way out.
You have to guess as much as Bidon does.
About that, I tried it yesterday after forward throw x2 dashes (5f safejump) and EX PC still beat my OS U1, does this require 4f safejump timing then OS U1 or does it have to be executed as a none safejump setup like empty jumping into U1 (this works for me)?
No you can safe jump but your timing may be off. I use it all the time.
Any ideas on gouken? This matchup I am ok with but I run into a lot of problems during pressure. His counter shuts down many of my attempted frame traps and it is just tricky overall to approach him cause of his aa fireballs. Also I need some counters for his wakeup reversals. Palm is a given to break counter but many goukens usually reversal with ex demon flip which has a shitload of invincibility at the start (you can’t even srk it on wakeup) or ex tatsu.
you might be inputting the psycho crusher too late. if your demon starts after EX PC’s active frames begin, you will get beat out. try inputting it earlier each time if you keep getting beat out.
As far as I understand we can only grab him on the 14th frame right? Since he’s invincible through frames 1-13 and starting from frame 15 he’s airborne.
Basically we’d have to have our Ultra activate by that specific frame, and we got just 2 frames for that (5-6), I take.
That’s my experience too, yeah. I mean, there’s no reason for them to stay put when it’s so hard to actually OS them and deal decent damage, it’s too much of a guess.
Gouken is really easy to vortex. It might be hard getting past the initial fireball zoning stage but once you pass that it’s easy. You can rattle parry/counter happy Gouken’s on wakeup by doing palm/grab. Then when they stop doing the counter you can go to town on them. Empty jump works good on them too, baiting the counter for a full combo. Watch out for the EX tatsu’s on wakeup though.
Actually while we feast on the guy, it can be tricky if he uses EX Demon Flip. That thing has 25 frames of invincibility, and if he goes for it he can activate his air parry, so don’t jump with normals or he’ll land before you and rape will ensue. I’ve yet to hit the lab, but was thinkign about a nj EX Tatsu OS for that, could be flashy if it works.
EX Tatsu is kinda of slow (7 or 8f iirc) so as long as you’re approaching him with palm you’ll be fine. He should be able to cancel it too, but that comes with 3 stocks.
Counter isn’t safejumpable with normals if I am not mistaken, it has a 1f startup.
You just have to get use to punishing the flip. It is really really REALLY slow compared to Akuma’s. If you know how you can even U1 punish it.
By the way are there any Bison Akuma videos I can watch? I just want to see how people deal with his stupid pressure game.
I tend to jump a lot midscreen and sometimes I get caught by a random scissor kick during jump frames. I also need to know how to vortex bison.