That’s not a nit-pick. I mean he listed Gief of all chars…
Gotta agree with Azrael. Guile, Yun, Yang, Zangief, Honda have solid wakeup. Guile’s may lose to crossups but it has invincibility till active and only a 4F startup and can be FADC’d. Yun’s is great except for the fact it can’t be FADCed. Yang’s has no problem other than not being particularly high damage. Gief has SPD / EX SPD if they are on the ground and if they are in the air lariat only has a 4F startup and upper body invincibility. Honda’s loses to crossups due to charge and requires meter and is easily safe jumped at 8F. However it’s fully invincible, can be FADCed, and many characters have trouble punishing it on block and without an OS Jump it’s also difficult to punish on whiff for some characters. Dudley has EX Jet Upper which is a solid wakeup even if it requires meter, and he has cross counter in a pinch. Oni has solid wakeup too, it’s just unsafe if he is wrong however it has everything else.
Really only Cody, Viper, Gen, and Chun have bad wakeup out of the cast you listed.
Not being the best doesn’t make them not solid just makes them not perfect. Not everyone can have an FADCable DP and teleport and an SPD.
Does viper really have bad wakeup
Viper has good wakeup, and Chun has decent wakeup, too.
Sarcasm?
You really can tell this forum is getting full of people who got the game for christmas (not a cheap shot at Ugo, just in general).
Welcome, guys, I guess.
No.
Viper having bad wakeup is the funniest shit i’ve read in a while
EX SBK as a reversal leaves a lot to be desired to be sure, but that plus her backdash give her somewhat decent wakeup options. I’d say Chun’s wakeup is moderate. Not great but not terrible either.
Given the fact that a lot of people have pretty easy safe jumps or moves that stuff it, I would put it as below average. Even if it hits, its really not that great. Dont get me wrong, I think EX sbk is a good move, just not for wakeup.
So after reading those comments about wakeup options, it seems like unless you have an option that literally beats everything there is in the game = bad wakeup to you guys?
Viper
Chun
Gouken
mother fucking Gief
Oni
Honda
have bad wakeup games? Those are decent at worst, some are even great.
Then what would you call Vega’s wakeup game?
That’s very interesting. Unfortunatelly the sample size is not that much - there are many results missing there.
I think Ugo was being sarcastic. He’s just good at hiding it. I think he’s criticizing how everyone complains their characters have bad wake-ups or how people say how much they affect match-up points when really they don’t.
Yes, let’s conveniently ignore the best backdash in the game.
You know what? Fuck it, Akuma has shitty wakeup. You can make his dp whiff, then punish for freeeeeee.
There aren’t many characters that have truly bad wakeup options. Sometimes it only seems that way because they get raped by vortex characters. Gouki vs Boxer/Makoto/Chun/Sagat will make it seem like that these characters are totally useless on wakeup. If it weren’t for stuff like vortex oki, most characters would seem perfectly fine on wakeup.
Cody could easily get twice as good a wake up and still be among the worst in the game lol. (Not a complaint, just an observation. I tend to actually enjoy characters who have to block on wakeup. Hence why the characters I’ve played in SF4 have been Cody/Makoto/Gouken)
When it comes to characters with good backdashes I think there is one thing people tend to forget about for how strong a backdash is: airborne frames. Every backdash has airborne frames after the invincibility wears off, however not all characters have the same amount of airborne frames. In addition to having one of the slowest backdashes and tied with Dry Hakan for the shortest range backdash, Cody only has 6F of airborne frames after the invincibility but he has 11F of grounded recovery. Compare that to say: Rose (another character with pretty bad wake up options but in this case an exceptional backdash) Rose has 10F of airborne frames after the invincibility, and only 3F of grounded frames before she can block. That means hitting her out of a backdash is much more likely to just cause an air reset rather than a full combo.
I actually didn’t think about backdashes when I considered the wakeups of Chun/Viper/Cody/Gen as bad/below average. (I also didn’t really think about just how far into the active frames that Viper’s EX Seismo has strike invincibility. Granted you can at least throw her out of now but I didn’t realize it was so far into her active frames.)
If you take into consideration FA backdash and the other options the character has. Really only Cody is left of the list of characters that were posted originally. Though his EX Criminal Upper is an incredibly good anti-grappler move on wake up. EX Zonk is pretty much ass, slow, unsafe, whiffs on jumps, tons of recovery, short range. I’d take it over nothing though any day.
That said I really think Badspray should be better, the thing is only available on soft knockdown which is fine but it has a 25F startup and only 10F invincibility and 28F of recovery. Still a good surprise in a pinch.
We’ve been through this before: everyone thinks their characters have bad wakeups, while people who use vortex chars think everyone who their setups don’t work against have good wakeups.
Bad wakeups you say? It’s kinda funny, playing Makoto for so long has put the tendency to almost always block on wakeup in me as a player even when I’m playing a character that has actual options on wakeup.
Guile has legit bad wakeup due to his turnaround glitch(cause his flashkick to not auto correct, and for his b.dash/focus b.dash to consistently auto correct to a f.dash) and everyone being able to unblockable him without even trying.
I just want to point out something I feel about tiers in SF4, is that I really do think the top 5 (Akuma, Cammy, Fei Long, Adon, Seth) just absolutely stand out as stronger than the rest of the cast. Just my opinion on it, it kinda feels like they can beat/go even with the rest of the cast. Just wondering if anybody else feels like that or if that’s just a common thing for a metagame as far on along as this one.