SSF4 AE 2012 Gen Match-ups & Strategies (New)

[tha_messiah]

This will be the new home for Gen’s match-ups for SSFIV AE. I will get this stickied.

PLEASE SEND ALL MATCH-UP & STRATEGY INFORMATION TO ME VIA PM. It would be best to keep this as clean as possible and only have posts for discussion only. So if you feel it needs to be added so everyone can see, please send to me, and don’t fill the thread with it. People don’t have time to skim through 50 messages looking for the best strategies, let’s keep it all together on the main page. Thanks in advance.

UPDATE:** Character specific information is being added.**

[tha_messiah]

Abel

[details=Spoiler]info

Character Specific Info:

***Crane c.LK, Mantis Ultra 1 - ***Corner only.

***Mantis s.MP,TC2, EX Hands, Mantis Ultra 2 - ***Yes.

***FAL3, Crane Ultra 2: ***Both Mid-screen and Corner. (Mid: If you forward dash you can jump straight up or back then U2. If you back dash you can Jump straight up, jump forward or jump back. **Corner: **All versions are pretty easy in the corner.).

***FAL2, Crane Ultra 2: ***Both Mid-screen and Corner (**Mid: **If you forward dash, only jumping back while Tiger Kneeing the U2 works. If you back dash you can jump forward, straight up or back. All must be Tiger Knee’d)

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, c.HK: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, c.HP: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, s.HK: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, s.MK, HP Hands: ***Yes

***Crane j.MK (Cross-up), s.LP, c.LK, (c.HK) or (c.HP) or (s.HK): ***All finishing normals work.

***Crane c.LK, Gekiro: ***Corner only (All versions work)
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Adon

[details=Spoiler]info

Character Specific Info:

***Crane c.LK, Mantis Ultra 1 - ***Corner only.

***Mantis s.MP,TC2, EX Hands, Mantis Ultra 2 - ***No.

***Oga cross-up after TC2> lk gekiro [SIZE=4]with quickstand:[/SIZE]***MK oga - juggle high gekiro (highest possible, very hard. TC1 alternative recommended)

***Oga cross-ups after TC1> lk gekiro [SIZE=4]with quickstand:[/SIZE]***MK oga - juggle high gekiro

***Oga cross-ups after TC2> lk gekiro with [SIZE=4]no quickstand:[/SIZE]***MK oga - juggle low gekiro

***Gen oga cross-ups after mantis super > gekiro with quickstand: ***HK gekiro juggle high - MK oga (hit his ass on the last hit!)

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, c.HK: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, c.HP: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, s.HK: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, s.MK, HP Hands: ***Yes

***Crane j.MK (Cross-up), s.LP, c.LK, (c.HK) or (c.HP) or (s.HK): ***c.HP, s.HK work. Must remove s.LP to get c.HK to combo.

***Crane c.LK, Gekiro: ***Corner only (All versions work)
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Akuma/Gouki

[details=Spoiler]info

Info for Safe jumps:

Akuma Shoryuken: Light, Medium, Heavy & EX = 3Frame Start-up

Character Specific Info:

Mantis s.MP, s.HP, LK Gekiro - Yes

***Mantis s.MP, s.MP, c.HP - ***Standing and Crouching

Mantis j.HP, s.MP, s.MP, c.HP - Crouching

Mantis j.HP, s.MP, s.MP, c.HK - Crouching (Also works without a jump attack.)

Mantis j.HP, s.MP, s.MP, TC2, LK Gekiro - Crouching (Also works without a jump attack.)

Mantis j.HP, s.MP, s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, Mantis U2 - Crouching (Also works without a jump attack.)

***Crane c.LK, Mantis Ultra 1 - ***Corner only.

***Mantis s.MP,TC2, EX Hands, Mantis Ultra 2 - ***Yes.

***Oga cross-ups after TC1> lk gekiro [SIZE=4]with quickstand:[/SIZE]***MK oga - juggle high gekiro

***Oga cross-ups after TC2> lk gekiro with [SIZE=4]no quickstand:[/SIZE]***LK oga - juggle low gekiro Unblockable

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, c.HK: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, c.HP: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, s.HK: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, s.MK, HP Hands: ***Yes

***Crane j.MK (Cross-up), s.LP, c.LK, (c.HK) or (c.HP) or (s.HK): ***All finishers work.

***Crane c.LK, Gekiro: ***Mid-screen and Corner (Mid: LK and EX. Corner: All versions work)

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[tha_messiah]

Balrog/Boxer

Spoiler

Guaranteed Super/Ultras:

Strategy:

A solid Balrog is going to play a mix of offense and defense. Using normals to keep his position while keeping his charge. Your main focus is going to be watching if he’s in back or down charge. If you want to gain space vs him, you need to be taking baby steps, because his multiple versions of his dash punches will be used to gain space, plus chip or with the hope that it connects. It’s possible to Focus Attack them but you really need to watch patterns, as he does have armor breaking versions. Your main tool to counter these attacks should be c.MK, Hands. Using hands is key if he has meter, because c.MK won’t work well if he uses a EX version. c.MK will go under the attack and Hands will add extra damage and break the EX move. You could sweep them as well, just make sure your reaction is on par.

To be continued…

Match examples:

Info for Safe jumps:

Balrog’s Headbutt: Light = 8Frame Start-up, Medium = 10Frame Start-up, Heavy & EX = 12Frame Start-up

Character Specific Info:

Mantis s.MP, Crane s.HK - Standing only. Kind of pointless as only first hit connects but it’s there.

Crane c.LK, Mantis Ultra 1 - Mid-screen and Corner.

***Mantis s.MP,TC2, EX Hands, Mantis Ultra 2 - ***Yes.

**Oga cross-ups after TC2> lk gekiro with [SIZE=4]no quickstand:[/SIZE]**LK oga - juggle high gekiro

**oga cross-ups after mantis super > gekiro with quickstand: **HK gekiro juggle medium/high - MK oga (start off at medium height and end last hit on his knee)

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, c.HK: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, c.HP: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, s.HK: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, s.MK, HP Hands: ***Yes

***Crane j.MK (Cross-up), s.LP, c.LK, (c.HK) or (c.HP) or (s.HK): ***All finishing normals work.

***Crane c.LK, Gekiro: ***Corner only (All versions work)

Blanka

[details=Spoiler]info

Info for Safe jumps:

Blanka’s Vertical Roll (Up Ball): Light, Medium, Heavy, EX = 4Frame Start-up

Blanka’s U2 AA: 0+7F

Character Specific Info:

***Mantis s.MP, s.HP, HK Gekiro: ***Yes.

***Crane c.LK, Mantis Ultra 1 - ***Corner only.

***Mantis s.MP,TC2, EX Hands, Mantis Ultra 2 - ***No. (Not even s.MK, EX Hands, U2 works)

***Oga cross-ups after TC1> lk gekiro [SIZE=4]with quickstand:[/SIZE]***LK oga - juggle high gekiro

***Oga cross-ups after TC2> lk gekiro with [SIZE=4]no quickstand:[/SIZE]***LK oga - juggle low gekiro

***FAL3, Crane Ultra 2: ***Both Mid-screen and Corner. (Mid: All dash and jump directions before U2 seems to work. **Corner: **All versions are pretty easy in the corner).

***FAL2, Crane Ultra 2: ***Both Mid-Screen and Corner. (**Mid: **All dash and jump directions before U2 seems to work. **Corner: **All versions seem to work).

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, c.HK: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, c.HP: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, s.HK: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, s.MK, HP Hands: ***Yes

***Crane j.MK (Cross-up), s.LP, c.LK, (c.HK) or (c.HP) or (s.HK): ***All finishers work.

***Crane c.LK, Gekiro: ***Corner preferred (Corner: All versions work. Mid: You can hit EX but it’s really difficult)[/details]

C.Viper

[details=Spoiler]info

Info for Safe jumps:

C.Viper Thunder Knuckle: Light = 16Frame Start-up, Medium = 14Frame Start-up, Heavy = 7Frame Start-up, EX = 27Frames

Character Specific Info:

***Crane c.LK, Mantis Ultra 1 - ***Corner only.

***Mantis s.MP,TC2, EX Hands, Mantis Ultra 2 - ***No. (Not even s.MK, EX Hands, U2 works)

***Oga cross-up after TC2> lk gekiro [SIZE=4]with quickstand:[/SIZE]***MK oga - juggle high gekiro (highest possible, hard. TC1 alternative recommended)

***Oga cross-ups after TC1> lk gekiro [SIZE=4]with quickstand:[/SIZE]***MK oga - juggle high gekiro

***Oga cross-ups after TC2> lk gekiro with [SIZE=4]no quickstand:[/SIZE]***LK oga - juggle high gekiro Unblockable if hit at highest point

***FAL3, Crane Ultra 2: ***Both Mid-screen and Corner. (Mid: All dash and jump directions before U2 seems to work. **Corner: **All versions are pretty easy in the corner).

***FAL2, Crane Ultra 2: ***Both Mid-Screen and Corner. (**Mid: **All dash and jump directions before U2 seems to work. **Corner: **All versions seem to work).

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, c.HK: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, c.HP: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, s.HK: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, s.MK, HP Hands: ***Yes

***Crane j.MK (Cross-up), s.LP, c.LK, (c.HK) or (c.HP) or (s.HK): ***All finishers miss when you cross up. Remove s.LP and they will land. If you land j.MK as a non-cross up all but sweep hit.

***Crane c.LK, Gekiro: ***Corner (Corner: All versions work.)[/details]

[tha_messiah]

Cammy

[details=Spoiler]Info

Info for Safe jumps:

Cammy Cannon Spike: Light, Medium, Heavy, EX = 5Frames Start-up

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Chun Li

[details=Spoiler]info

Info for Safe jumps:

Chun-Li Spinning Bird Kick: EX = 6Frame Start-up
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Cody

Spoiler

info

[tha_messiah]

Dan

[details=Spoiler]Info

Info for Safe jumps:

Dan Koryuken: Light, Medium, Heavy & EX = 4Frame Start-up
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Dee Jay

[details=Spoiler]info

Info for Safe jumps:

Dee Jay Jacknife Maximum: Light, Medium, Heavy = 6Frame Start-up, EX = 4Frame Start-up
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Dhalsim

Spoiler

info

[tha_messiah]

Dudley

[details=Spoiler]Info

Info for Safe jumps:

Dudley Jet Upper: Light & Medium = 6Frame Start-up, Heavy & EX = 4Frame Start-up[/details]

E.Honda

[details=Spoiler]info

Info for Safe jumps:

E.Honda Headbutt: Light = 13Frame Startup, Medium = 9Frame Startup, Heavy & EX = 8Frame Start-up

E.Honda Butt Drop: Light, Medium & Heavy = 14Frame Start-up, EX = 9Frame Start-up

Character Specific Info:

***Mantis s.MP, s.MP, s.MP: ***Crouching only.

***Mantis s.MP, s.HP, HK Gekiro: ***Yes.

***Crane c.LK, Mantis Ultra 1 - ***Corner only.

***Mantis s.MP,TC2, EX Hands, Mantis Ultra 2 - ***No. (s.MK, EX Hands, U2 doesn’t work either)

***Oga cross-up after TC2> lk gekiro [SIZE=4]with quickstand:[/SIZE]***MK oga - juggle medium/high gekiro (his face is slightly above Gens).

***Oga cross-ups after TC2> lk gekiro with [SIZE=4]no quickstand:[/SIZE]***LK oga - juggle medium gekiro.

Oga cross-ups after mantis super > gekiro with quickstand: HK gekiro juggle medium/high - MK oga (last hit his head needs to be fully above Gens)

***FAL3, Crane Ultra 2: ***Both Mid-screen and Corner. (Mid: All dash and jump directions before U2 seems to work. **Corner: **All versions are pretty easy in the corner).

***FAL2, Crane Ultra 2: ***Both Mid-Screen and Corner. (**Mid: **Forward dash you can Jump back or Straight up. Back dash you can jump straight up, forward, or back. **Corner: **All versions seem to work).

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, c.HK: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, c.HP: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, s.HK: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, s.MK, HP Hands: ***Yes

***Crane j.MK (Cross-up), s.LP, c.LK, (c.HK) or (c.HP) or (s.HK): ***c.HP & s.HP work no matter if it’s a cross up or not. c.HK only works if you remove s.LP from the combo.

***Crane c.LK, Gekiro: ***Corner only (All versions work)[/details]

El Fuerte

[details=Spoiler]info

Character Specific Info:

***Mantis s.HP, HK Gekiro - ***Whiffs almost all of the time. There is something weird with his hitbox that if you are in the right spot it will actually land. It’s not reliable so don’t use it.

***Crane c.LK, Mantis Ultra 1 - ***Corner only.

***Mantis s.MP,TC2, EX Hands, Mantis Ultra 2 - ***Yes.

***Oga cross-up after TC2> lk gekiro [SIZE=4]with quickstand: [/SIZE]***MK Oga - Juggle High Gekiro

***Oga cross-ups after TC2> lk gekiro with [SIZE=4]no quickstand: [/SIZE]***LK Oga - Juggle High Gekiro

Oga cross-ups after mantis super > gekiro with quickstand: LK gekiro juggle medium - MK oga (same height as Gen)

***FAL3, Crane Ultra 2: ***Both Mid-screen and Corner. (Mid: If you forward dash you will have to jump back then U2. If you back dash you can Jump straight up, jump forward or jump back. **Corner: **All versions are pretty easy in the corner. The only tricky one is dash back straight up U2).

***FAL2, Crane Ultra 2: ***Both Mid-screen and Corner (**Mid: **If you forward dash, only jumping back while Tiger Kneeing the U2 works. If you back dash you can jump forward, straight up or back. All must be Tiger Knee’d)

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, c.HK: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, c.HP: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, s.HK: ***Yes

***Mantis s.MP, TC2, EX Hands, s.MK, HP Hands: ***Yes

***Crane j.MK (Cross-up), s.LP, c.LK, (c.HK) or (c.HP) or (s.HK): ***All finishing normals work if it’s a non-cross up. Or if you do cross up, you remove s.LP and all finishers will hit.

***Crane c.LK, Gekiro: ***Corner only (All versions work)

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[tha_messiah]

Evil Ryu

[details=Spoiler]Info

Info for Safe jumps:

Evil Ryu Shoryuken: Light, Medium, Heavy & EX = 3Frame Start-up

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Fei Long

Spoiler

Info

Gen

[details=Spoiler]info

Info for Safe jumps:

Gen Gekiro: Light = 5Frame Start-up, Medium, Heavy & EX = 7 Frame Start-up

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[tha_messiah]

Gouken

[details=Spoiler]info

Info for Safe jumps:

Gouken Hurricane Kick: Light & EX = 7Frame Start-up, Medium = 10Frame Start-up, Heavy = 13Frame Start-up

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Guile

[details=Spoiler]Info

Info for Safe jumps:

Guile’s Flash Kick: Light, Medium, Heavy, EX = 4Frame Start-up.

Guile’s Super: Light = 1+2F, Medium = 1+3F, Heavy 1+5F.

Guile’s Ultra’s: U1 = 0+7, U2 = 0+10

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Guy

[details=Spoiler]info

Info for Safe jumps:

Guy Bushin Senpukyaku: Light = 10Frame Start-up, Medium = 9Frame Start-up, Heavy = 6Frame Start-up, EX = 4Frame Start-up

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[tha_messiah]

Hakan

Spoiler

Strategy:

Beating Hakan breaks down into two distinct meta-games

1. Prevent him from oiling up
2. Zone him out when oiled

General notes

Do not jump at Hakan without having set it up. Hakan’s air to air normals, air grab and anti-air normals can cover every situation that Gen can throw out.

Take advantage of the unblockable setup whenever possible. Forward throw > lp roll (whiff) > crane j.hk. The other version of this setup with the mk is softblockable and so should generally be avoided unless you are trying to bait ultra.

Oil prevention

Rush him down.

Hakan’s notable normals: 6hp, 6mp OS(xx slide), 5lp, 5mp, 6lp, 6lk, 2mk OS(xx slide)

To prevent you getting close Hakan has some tremendous normals. A 3 frame, cancellable 6lk, 6mp has plentiful active frames and is cancellable into slide for the knockdown and oil. 6hp has tremendous priority and deals heap big damage. 5lp and 6lp are deceptively long range and excellent anti-air normals and 5mp is a good frame trap. So long as you know the ranges of these and work around them when trying to get in you should be able to pressure him into making a mistake.

Even without oil Hakan has the ability to get on top of you and keep you completely locked down.

Notable setups

1. slide+splash > s.mp (whiff) > forward jump hk

This is Hakan’s best safe jump against Gen. You will (outside of the corner) want to always block it as a standard jump in (non-crossup). In the corner it can also cross up.
If he knocks you down you will be forced to just block this.

2. slide+splash > small step backwards/whiff s.lk > DDT

This is a very advanced technique taking advantage of the standing up hitbox being full height for 2 frames. If you just hold down/down-back then this will grab you. You are forced to cancel your standing animation into a move. The best is 2lp as he can feint the DDT to bait a reversal Gekiro(WTF).

One useful point to note is that he has no true blockstrings into slide (which he will want to block string into and FADC for mixup). If you frustrate him into throwing out slides in the hope that it will catch you standing then you can beat them out safely.

The rate at which the oily man builds meter may also make you cry. When he gets 3/4 of a bar from 1 SPD (and the free oil after it) and his normals give him tremendous bar you need to be careful in your rushdown because his EX spd is a very very good GTFO tool.

You should NOT be sitting full screen waiting for him to apply oil so that you can U1 him. He cancel his oil into coward crouch.

Dealing with an oiled Hakan

Things just got real. When Hakan has oil he is an offensive beast. The aim of your game is now to keep him at the extent of your best pokes and frustrate him into making mistakes and running out of oil so you can once again try to gain momentum. The same setups off knockdown also apply here so watch out for those.

Now all of his normals become tremendous, the biggest improvement is to 5hk, which when kara’d from a forward dash normal cancel can make him cover about 2/3 screen in a few frames. It now also causes a hard knockdown.

Hakan has a few special properties to moves when oiled that you need to be aware of as they completely change your options.

**1. Focus attack: **This can now travel across the screen giving it very good range.
**2. Dash: **Hakan’s dash can be cancelled into any of his normals. This is very important. As an example, Hakan can focus absorb you (m)5mp, dash cancel then cancel the dash into a normal before you can so much as get a jab to come out by pressing it on the first possible frame. What this forces you to do is to keep him at mid-range and poke him with normals you can cancel into hands. (m)2hp, (m)5hk, (m)2hk etc. can ALL be absorbed and punished into slide combo before you have even half recovered from the move. Dash Normal Cancelling (from here on DNC) also prevents you from trying crossup attempts as he can focus them and s.lk you out of your landing frames, again into a slide combo.
**3. SPD: **This move gains some massive extra range and becomes a really useful tool for him. He can now tick into it from almost any of his normals.
**4. Ultra 1: **Extra damage and range. This can now do up to 530 damage.

Playing footsies with an oiled Hakan you will have to be running at 100% concentration at all times. Especially when having to deal with how many ways he has to tick into ultra 1. Just backdashing and jumping out a lot gives him a chance to bust out his super and his ultra 2 if you’re in the corner.

Preferred Ultra

In this match ultra 1 is very definitely the better option. Both of his ultras are viable in this matchup. You may feel that U2 forces you to stay grounded - but as I have said, you do not jump when playing Hakan without setting it up anyway. His U2 also prevents you backdashing out of everything in the corner when he can option select it. However, with how good his pressure game can be and how bad our reversal is you can also be trained into just blocking his strings and ticked into ultra 1.

Combos and option selects

Standard hit confirms into TC2 xx lk.wtf.
Hakan’s hitbox can be terribly screwy, don’t try anything fancy.

When he is oiled try to stop yourself from option selecting sweep and gekiro as he can usually dnc to safety and either beat them or be completely safe. Instead stick to OS (m)5mp. Unoiled go to town with the standard OSes.

Preferred Anti-Airs:

Mantis c.Fierce(HP) - For far jump-ins.

Crane c.Round House(HK) - For close jump-ins.

However, Hakan won’t really jump at you much outside of setup 1 which you are forced to block anyway. Because of Hakan’s jump arc (you may remember it - it was ours in vanilla, abeit slower travelling) and air hitboxes using other moves can more often than not see you trade (for the worse).

Match Examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i4ztNjrPwI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDiJ5T9dbmQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFDu0TxOb7g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70gDBfvrvJc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw2WiuNMmdA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_dd-RQjS7A

Ibuki

Spoiler

Info

Juri

Spoiler

info

[tha_messiah]

Ken

[details=Spoiler]info

Info for Safe jumps:

Ken Shoryuken: Light & Heavy = 3Frame Startup, Medium & EX = 4Frame Startup

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M.Bison/Dictator

Spoiler

Info

Makoto

Spoiler

info

[tha_messiah]

Oni

[details=Spoiler]info

Info for Safe jumps:

Oni GoShoryuken: Light, Medium, Heavy & EX = 3Frame Start-up
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Rose

Spoiler

Info

Rufus

Spoiler

info

[tha_messiah]

Ryu

[details=Spoiler]info

Info for Safe jumps:

Ryu Shoryuken: Light, Medium, Heavy, EX all 3Frame Start-up

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Sagat

[details=Spoiler]Info

Info for Safe jumps:

Tiger Uppercut: Light, Medium, Heavy, EX = 5Frame Start-up

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Sakura

[details=Spoiler]info

Info for Safe jumps:

Sakura Shooken: Light = 6Frame Start-up, Medium = 7Frame Start-up, Heavy & EX = 12Frame Start-up
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[tha_messiah]

Seth

[details=Spoiler]info

Info for Safe jumps:

Seth Shoryuken: Light, Medium, Heavy & EX = 5Frame Start-up

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T.Hawk

Spoiler

Info

Vega/Claw

Spoiler

info

[tha_messiah]

Yang

Spoiler

Strategy:

Normally, I suggest to everyone that yang is ineffective until he gets inside, and that patient footsies and anti airs can whittle him down over time. Once he is inside his ideal range the block advantage on his normals can be constant pressure. You don’t want to get caught there, because if you cannot find a way out by the time he pushes you in he corner, you will need an extremely good read on his mixup. To get out of his pressure midscreen, you need to focus absorb backdash out of his final attacks in a blockstring, you can’t do this for a dive kick due to him OSing you if he sees it coming, and he can empty jump and land behind you leaving you dashing out of focus but ready to be punished.

Ideally, you want to Anti air his far dive kicks with cr.hp, the hitbox is so good your enemy yang will quickly realize he can’t bait you out with it. If he dive kicks right in front of you, or your feet, you can beat it with st.mp all day. If he dive kicks your upper torso, but not your head (overhead) its a hard read, but st.lp beats this well, and most interestingly, if you have a yang trying to hit you directly overhead or crossup with dive kick you have two options: one you can time ex gekiro to beat it with autocorrect, but its a risky choice, or you can cr.hk and duck under the dive kick with enough recovery to block the first attack.

In reality, with good footsies and fundamentals Gen only gets hit by meaty dive kicks on wakeup, and hangs dive kick sucks, so buffer the input for ex gekiro just in case, and if its A crossup it will come out with sweep (I believe, all of his is matchups, not playtesting)

Be very careful if your yang likes to palm out of range, if you see it coming fast enough it can be punished with a cr.hp, maybe st.hk

Other than that, be very very patient and keep your spacing literally between 1.5 st.hk’s from your yang and you’ll br ready to teach him the power of anti airs.

Also, dumb hangs who try to play footsies outside of jab range deserve counterhits from st.mp, cr.mp, cr.hp and st.hk.

[KAHMOS]patient footsies and anti airs can whittle him down over time.
[ME]Mid-range Yang has a pretty solid set of tools (much, much better than his brother). Being predictable with mk xx hands can lead to him jabbing you out of it so make sure you are in range to be also doing c.mk xx hands and c.mp xx hands as they all have different hittable boxes so he has to have different ways of dealing with them.

Ideally you will want to get in on him with your best normals before he can do the same to you. His only real get out option is his EX dash, lk dp or backdash, option selecting and buffering mantis super and sweep will soon put an end to that.

[KAHMOS]Once he is inside his ideal range the block advantage on his normals can be constant pressure. You don’t want to get caught there, because if you cannot find a way out by the time he pushes you in he corner, you will need an extremely good read on his mixup.

[ME] this is pretty solid - but obvious info, the thing about backdashing isn’t good imo, they can be OSing every single button of their attacking with slashes or dp etc. Its hard to do but if you come up against a good one they will expect you to backdash lots because of who they are using.

Anti-air his dive kicks with (m)5lp or (m)5mp. Ultra 2 in this match also gives you the option to use Mantis U2 to pull him out of the sky.

[KAHMOS]In reality, with good footsies and fundamentals Gen only gets hit by meaty dive kicks on wakeup.

[ME]Unfortunately there is little to nothing we can do against these so you have to block them out.
Crane super can easily be baited and punished if he positions correctly and all 4 frame safe jumps are completely safe against it (see: forward throw > c.mp (whiff) > forward jump.

[NOTE: I would NEVER try to c.hp palms]

Air to air Yangs will generally beat you.
Stay grounded and either zone him out by mixing up normals xx hands or get in his face, safe jump him, mix him up and prepare for him to lk dp or ex dash.

Beginners guide to Yang’s dive kicks:

hits you in the face - hit him back
hits you in the waist - prepare for a late throw tech
hits you in the feet - block

Horrible things to watch out for:

1. meaty dive kicks

2. s.mk launcher, super jump cancel, air reset, him dashing - this is one of his single most ambiguous setups and will cause problems all day

3. ex slash > command grab, normal slash > ex command grab - not much you can do about these but be very, very psychic.

Best bnb off a short/jab:

(m)2lk > (m)2lp > TC2 xx lk.wtf(Gekiro)

Preferred Anti-Airs:

Mantis s.Jab(LP) - Stops Dive Kick pressure. The can be the best option as it comes out fast and you can do it on reaction to their Dive Kicks and allows you to see if they are going to do a high or lower Dive Kick. This is also great for baiting out Dive Kicks.

Mantis s.Strong(MP) - Stuffs Dive Kicks, but timing can be a bit more strict compared to the s.Jab(LP).

Mantis s.Fierce(HP) - Works well vs higher Dive Kicks. Best to use this if they are trying to use Dive Kicks to close distance. If they are a bit out of range to hit you, you’ll usually hit them.

Mantis c.Forward(MK) xx Hands - Good if he jumps from far (although more often than not they will neutral jump at mid-range waiting for you to press something so they can get in).

Crane Option Select c.Short(LK)+c.Jab(LP)+c.Round House(HK) - A well timed OS will help get them off you if you are being pressured over and over by Dive Kicks. If they Dive Kick you will Stuff them with the c.Round House(HK), If they Throw it will Tech the Throw. Don’t abuse this as they will bait it, and or jump back and Dive at you. Use it to get them off you and start over.

Info for Safe jumps:

Yang Senkyuutai: Light = 5Frame Start-up, Medium = 6Frame Start-up, Heavy = 7Frame Start-up, EX = 4Frame Start-up

Yun

[details=Spoiler]Info

Info for Safe jumps:

Yun Nishou Kyaku: Light = 5Frame Start-up, Medium = 6Frame Start-up, Heavy = 8Frame Start-up, EX = 4Frames Start-up

[/details]

Zangief

Spoiler

Guaranteed Super/Ultras:

Strategy:

Abuse your pokes. Try to find your range so you can out poke him or counter poke him. You really should only be in Mantis. s.HK, c.HP, s.MK xx Hands, c.MP xx Hands are going to be your main pokes. s.MP can work but you really want to keep him out. using Hands after s.MK and c.MP push him back where you want him to be, you don’t want him in. If he is out of range he will either try to play footsies with you to gain space, use green hand, or jump. A lot of Giefs can jump in from far away and get away with it, because their jump normals have so much reach. Using Gekiro as a punish can some what be useful, but online with the delay, your reaction delay, and how slow Gekiro comes out compared to other moves, it can trade quite often. Using Mantis c.HP is your friend in this match-up vs jump-ins. Giefs mainly jump in when they are really far out, or have a knock down. So if you aren’t knocked down, Mantis c.HP is what you need to be using.

If they use Green Hand to gain space where it’s going to whiff just in front of you, most Giefs will follow-up with a SPD. You have time to attack between moves. Green Hand recovers in 21 to 27 frames depending on the strengthen of the special. s.MP, s.MK, lk gekiro is a idle punish. Especially if it’s blocked. On block Green Hand is -7 to -9 depending on the strengthen. So punish it hard. Keep in mind, if he lands the Green Hand you’ll be at frame advantage unless it’s EX. On hit Green Hand is -5 to -7 frames for LP, MP, HP. EX is safe. Also look out for set-ups if EX lands. or if you fail to punish the non-EX versions. He has many options. Pokes, another Green Hand to keep the pressure, Lariat, Jumping normals (especially his headbutt that will cause a lot of stun), and if he has ultra 2, he can set that up.

If you get knocked down, it is possible to dash out of his attacks. However he can time it so you can’t. But in most cases you should be able to auto correct EX Gekiro. If you have super stocked you can auto correct Crane Super as well. Gief is still as dangerous on knock-down as he was in Super, but he needs to get that knock-down now. Which is harder for him to get.

Play smart, watch your back because he will bully you into the corner. Don’t panic and jump out without it being safe. Just stay calm, keep out poking him, and keeping him at bay.

Also don’t abuse this one, but at max range where you will get 2 hits, Crane s.MP (Overhead) can catch a lot of Giefs off guard. So if you need some extra damage, try for that.

Preferred Anti-Airs:

Mantis c.Fierce(HP) - This will be the one poke you will use most often. Why? Because most Giefs only jump at a non-knocked down opponent if they are far away because their normals have incredible reach, which allow them to get away with it vs certain characters. So if they are jumping from just outside poke range and further, this AA is what you need to be using.

Mantis s.Fierce(HP) - You probably won’t be using this as often as Mantis c.Fierce as most Giefs don’t jump in on you at close range. Why? Because if they are in close range they have really good poke options and can SPD from that range. Not to say you won’t ever come across a Gief that will never do this, but just won’t be as often as from far away or if you are knocked down.

Mantis Gekiro(EX Preferred) - If you have meter to spare this is a great way to shut down Giefs jump-ins. HK Gekiro can work vs him, but it’s very possible to trade more often than not. EX is your way to go. If you find they are doing unsafe cross-ups after a knock-down, use EX to auto correct and punish them.

Crane c.Round House(HK) - You probably won’t be using this as often as Mantis c.Fierce as most Giefs don’t jump in on you at close range. Why? Because if they are in close range they have really good poke options and can SPD from that range. Not to say you won’t ever come across a Gief that will never do this, but just won’t be as often as from far away or if you are knocked down.

Crane Super - It’s quick, has great range, so if they are jumping in, it will hit them with ease. You should be using this to gain the upper hand on life or finish them off. You can also use this if they knock you down and try to cross you up. Just buffer it so it auto corrects.

Match examples:

[media=youtube]zqpzy54UxTo[/media]

[media=youtube]qLRqBAYHzB8[/media]

[cr0nt]

I’ll make a video for Hakan for you, only two weeks until I get AE

[tha_messiah]

cool. I’ll be making character specific videos for each character as well. but each will probably be about 20 minutes long.

[tha_messiah]

Going to reconfirm but I was able to hit Rose with a non-techable knockdown then did a Oga Ceiling dive on her wake up, she activated U2, and I hit her. Going to see if it’s a worthy tactic for sure chip.

[street11]

Her U2 lost invincibility. Now she can be meatied out of it.

[MichaelDeuel]

[media=youtube]biYxhd02YxU[/media]

Reset to oga cross up. It works on Oni and E. Ryu, doesn’t work on the twins Afaik.

[yeb]

That doesn’t look like a very reliable setup. Oni spends a good half second walking. You don’t want to leave the spacing to chance like that, so good setups don’t allow the opponent to walk. I have noticed that Oni’s a very easy target for crossup wall dives, though.