SSF2T Sagat Strats and FAQ

SSF2T Sagat + AE Sagats, Tweaks, and Differences

EDIT: Just putting in some basic stuff for those new to the thread…

O.Sagat is way better than new
Anti-airs: DEEP uppercut, s.rh
Basic strategy: Pound away with low tigers, deep uppercut (or another AA) when they jump
Basic Combo: jump attack (short can crossup), s.short (2 hits), uppercut. If short is blocked you can try for throw instead.

Who Does well against that beast O.Sagat and why?
I think i remember reading somewhere that Sim does well against him? Are there any characters that are really really fucked against O.Sagat?

**Posted by brian on 02-05-2003 06:49 AM: **
dhalsim owns o.sagat for free. far drill on reaction over low tigers kills sagats fireballing (hit from even the opposite side of the screen). Slides are guaranteed anti-air. Dhalsim is a throw whore, and o.sagat cant tech throws. standing fierce under high tigers. I think that does it.

Another O.sagat question: To what extent is the T.U. a guaranteed anti air if timed properly? Specifically, when I play agaisnt chun li, I get stuffed vs jumping short a LOT. Other jump ins stuff me frequently too. Am I necessarily timing it wrong? I know youre supposed to do it deep, but if I do it as deep as possible, will it automatically not get stuffed?

**Posted by dogberry on 02-05-2003 06:51 AM: **
marvelscrub:
yes! maybe ST talk isn’t totally dead yet.
Anyway, Dhalsim does really well against Old Sagat. Mainly because he has little problems avoiding those tiger shot barrages that makes old Sagat so good.

As for washout matches, Zangief gets beaten by Sagat really badly. I think Hawk does as well, and to a lesser extent Cammy and Vega, but both of them have a lot of trouble against Sagat.

Does anyone know how CHun Li fares against Sagat?

Brian:
I think with the TU the later you do it the less chances of air attacks stuffing the uppercut. I don’t believe the TU ever is a 100% sure thing because it’s not invincible like Old Ryu’s SRK, but as u said, the later u do it, the better chances u have of hitting with it, and done late the worst that will probably happen is trading hits, which is usually in your favour since the TU does so much damage.

**Posted by MCloud on 02-05-2003 08:02 AM: **
Doing the TU late, and doing the TU deep increase your chance of hitting the jumping-TU-snuffing/trading bitch, but there is one more thing that improves your chances (actually in my experience guarantees a clean hitting Tiger Uppercut), and that is…

Starting your uppercuts from the crouching position.
In other words… doing the UCut motion fast enough (starting from the crouching positon) so that you (Sagat) do not get hit while standing before your UCut comes out.

coolness, thats a pretty smart trick, by ducking u r increasing the deepness of the opponents jump in making the TU have a better chance of not being stuffed or traded with…

what of balrog, bison, and ummmm… dee jay? how does sagat beat them?

**Posted by margalis on 02-05-2003 09:21 AM: **
About the deep Sagat tiger uppercut: If you can do it from crouching without standing well good for you. However there are two tricks you can learn to help you out.

1: Do the TU motion, end on DF, and wait 1/4 second before pressing the button.
2: Do something like a low jab or short and do the TU right as that attack finishes.

#2 is hard to do unless you are very used to playing against that character, but #1 is pretty easy and buys you a bit longer time in crouch.

One other thing to keep in mind is that if someone hits you really high, you can either throw them or TU them before they hit the ground, especially if it was a light attack like Chun jumping short.

**Posted by marvelscrub on 02-05-2003 06:37 PM: **
Brian: Ouch… it seems Sim has answers for everything. Is he the only one that does really well against the one-eyed-wonder?

Dogberry: All the characters you mentioned don’t have FBs… Is that a clue? What about Blanka, Honda, Bison, Rog, and Fei?
As for the Deep TU thing… DEFINITELY the way to go. If you can’t do ducking TU, no one will fear your Sagat.

Here’s a little Question for the Group about Sagat FB’ing:
Ok, so you’ve got you opponent pinned a full screen away, and throw a low tiger and they jump over it. Now they’re about to land a few character widths in front of you. What can you do to keep your offense going?

Some things I’ve seen but don’t think I can rely on:
Hit them before they land with another tiger shot (!)
Hit them with a far Tiger knee before they land
Anti-air far fierce

After they land, i either throw another tiger right off (risky) or hesistate a split sec to see if they DP or something, then far s.short>low tiger

Any ideas? This is the part of my FB trap that I think has the biggest hole. Thanks for the asnwers guys.

**Posted by dogberry on 02-05-2003 11:36 PM: **
Marvelscrub:
Honda/Sagat: Advantage Sagat. Honda can torpedo over low tigers, but he risks running into a TU so it’s not much of an advantage. Honda can try inching in slowly, but then he loses his charge for headbutt. It’s very hard for Honda to get in on a good Sagat and he can’t count on careless low tigers, so Sagat wins.

Balrog/Sagat: this one is a pretty even matchup actually. A lot of this match depends on who can keep ahead in health and how long Sagat can hold Rog off and keep him from building super meter.

I’m not too sure about Bison and Fei. Maybe Jumpsuit Jesse can enlighten us about Fei vs. Sagat. Any Bison players out there?

And about countering jumps:
I use Sagat’s normals to knock opponents back so I can continue the low tiger barrages. Depending on what angle they jump in at and what attacks they can come at me during a jump I will try to pick the best normal to kick them back out.

If they are about to land a few character widths in front of you, I tend to use a stand short or stand forward to kick them back. stand fierce or another Low tiger work also. It’s really about positioning and timing and picking the best one.

**Posted by margalis on 02-06-2003 01:37 AM: **
Typically you don’t want people pinned at full screen distance, you want them at 3/4 screen or so. If they are ful screen away and jump over the only thing you can really do is throw another tiger shot.

Posted by Apoc
If they jump you can walk forward and use any air defenses depending on what they do. These include:st/cr. fierce, st.strong, cr.RH, cr.forward, tiger knee, TU, throw another short tiger, st. forward, jumping RH etc. If you have them pinned in the corner, slowly advancing will cut the screen off anyway so full screen can only last so long. There is NO trip guard and a TU is invincible(unless you use new sagat) when done deeply. Therefore, as long as you use these air defenses properly, the opponent will at least eat something upon landing or stick out a move that your TU could eat for huge damage. Just gotta keep a close eye on them. They have to stick something out most of the time if they are going to jump on reaction unless they want to land on something for free. Not much they can do there until they get closer. Jumping should do nothing for them unless they make a blind guess. At worst, the opponent should land blocking pushed right back where he came from. Seriously though, jumping, for the most part, is not a great way to cover distance when facing Sagat. Characters have other means of travelm heheh.

**Posted by Maxstah on 02-06-2003 04:55 AM: **
actually about the Tiger uppercut being invincible apoc, thats not really true. good timed hurricane with shotos will knock it out clean even done deep. hard shit, Marwan was really good with it in the tapes and also certain things like fei’s triple kick done up close(not really usable) will make tu just whiff through

**Posted by MArvelscrub **
Yeah… that’s the problem! I love it when they’re at the range where i can pop them with a TU… But if they block the FB or get hit, they go back to full screen. Then I try to make them jump into a high one if they’re anxious, or land on a slow high one… But it’s nothing great.

I suppose I could walk towards a bit to close the gap… but I can’t resist throwing the tigers like a maniac.
I’ll have to try what Apoc mentioned (thanks BTW)
Another Question (i ask too many): What are some good uses for the Tiger Knee? Outside of combo, and far-range-unexpected anti-air I can’t get much out of it. Sure the ol’ whiff knee into TU/throw is a neat trick, but just a trick. I wish the quick HF knee was still there… I loved that thing for dodging FB’s and stuff. It was so fast. I have trouble with the new one, am I timing it wrong?

**Posted by margalis on 02-06-2003 05:43 AM: **
You mean you have trouble doing it?
If you are getting a normal jump instead it means you are doing it too late. Better to press the button early, for two reasons:

1: A standing kick is less dangerous than a random jump
2: If you do get a standing kick, the negative edge might still cancel it in the first few frames and give you the knee.

**Posted by Apoc on 02-06-2003 06:33 AM: **

True, invincible isn’t the right word. Shotos hit from the other side, therefore, avoiding being in contact with the hittable part of the TU. At that point, Sagat could just neutral duck and throw many times. Just as other big characters can avoid it. I have to assume you mean that in the context of a waking up Sagat? We’re talking about from full screens distance and the like. Fei can get by, but that’s a separate invincibility issue and his invincibility won’t last long enough in order to hit a TU from that range.

I was talking in context to the opponent jumping from afar. Basically saying, if the opponent can touch Sagat, Sagat can TU. A shoto still can’t hurricane from that trajectory and avoid the TU. Unless I’ve just never seen this in my whole life which is possible since Sagat could clearly hit them if they did a hurricane so deep from that trajectory so…It’s pointless outside of a wake-up. In the sense that I meant it, I can’t think of a better word. Um…UltraPrioritized? Heheh. What’s one word that means “beats everything that the opponent can do, in order to damage you, at said range.” That’s what I’m saying.

I think the full meaning of the post is well understood and holds true in context. I even quoted the exact post to which I was referring. Sorry for the confusion, although I did quote to make the context easy to follow.

**Posted by EVERDRED on 02-06-2003 07:01 AM: **

wow suddenly we have sooooooooooooooooooo much sagat information i can’t decide what to practice first…

thank you everyone for answering most of my questions

**Posted by brian on 02-06-2003 08:58 AM: **

i could be remembering wrong, but I could have sworn that I’ve had a reversal TU stuffed before… hmm…

Posted by McDermont

If you have trouble TU ryu’s hurricane kick, then when he passes you up just c.strong it like you would with dhalsim(I might be wrong, depends on timing it)

**Posted by MCloud on 02-07-2003 12:08 AM: **

Hey Maxstah. Which hurricane are you refering to?

  1. Air hurricane coming towards sagat as he wakes up or if hes crouching waiting for it?
  2. Or if sagat is getting up and ryu crosses him up with an air hurricane from the other side?
  3. Or just a ground hurricane when sagat is getting up or crouching waiting for it?

Just want to know which one you have seen snuff the TU specifically. Thanks.

Carry on…

I think Old Honda might actually do better than regular Honda on O.Sagat. Why? Faster footspeed and those standing sweeps.

Granted… O.Honda is the only character I know how to use in ST… but :smiley:

TU Snuffing

–Quote–
Just want to know which one you have seen snuff the TU specifically. Thanks.

Carry on…

I have seen the jab or fierce TU (not too sure which one) get snuffed.

I jumped at my friends O-Sagat from about half screen away, and pushed fierce at, or just before, the apex of my jump, and he did tiger uppercut kinda early, i saw it start up, begin to rise as an UC does, then get completly snuffed clean…:smiley:

…My friend was like WTF!?:eek:

I looked at him like… I guess it does…:lol: (in that distance and scenario anyway)?!?

Hey! you just learned the crappiest way to do the uppercut! :slight_smile:

I remember hitting it like that against the CPU Sagat way back in SF2. “Check it out, if you jump from this range you can just RH him out of it clean! Kinda like against Guile!” it was like forbidden knowledge or something.

ANyho… I’m no expert, but when I see the TU get snuffed by normal jump-ins, it’s almost ALWAYS what you described. Lemme guess, Sagat was halfway through with his body just becoming extended (just getting off the ground). And you tapped him on his shoulder with your fierce and hit him clean? You weren’t on top of him, but more out in front of him with only your fierce coming in contact with his body.

I think this is why Sagats must learn ducking TU. :stuck_out_tongue:

I’ve got a kinda-related question… What is up with the TU when you pit it against other specials? I don’t mind getting beat by a super or O.Ken DP, but sometimes it seems random. Rog heabutt seems to totally own it, Fei Long DP seems to have the whoever-did-it-last rule, getting beat/trading with scissor knees, I’ve seen T.hawk and Sagat just push against each other flying up the screen with NO ONE taking damage… ? Anyone?

Vega’s bad against O.Sagat? Nah, he’s my favorite choice.

Vega has the big advantage of having a fast, high, narrow jump. It’s fast enough that he can dance around at sweep range and jump over Tiger Shots without risking an Uppercut.

Vega can also plant himself and poke at Sagat with low Strongs into Jab Rolls, while charging a Flipkick in case Sagat jumps. This has a big risk of getting the pokes Uppercutted, but Sagat can’t risk whiffing himself.

Overall, O.Sagat’s strongest weapon is negated by Vega’s #1 speed and great jump.

I kinda disagree on that one. Vega has a pretty tough time with O. Sagat. True, he can win, and those are some good strats, but he’s kind of screwed against a O. Sagat player with good execution and reflexes.

how? When I play sagat in that match I have a hard time…

this strategy guide by Apoc should help.

OG Sagat vs. Vega (by Apoc)

I know most don’t realize how to play this match. Sagat’s good either way really…but Vega shouldn’t have much of a chance. The main weapon ppl aren’t using with Sagat lately is st. short. Vega has no safe way of gaining distance against Sagat other than the Rh slide. I hear some ppl thinking about his speed in his jump. What ppl aren’t paying much attention to anymore is the “bounce” on old school.

You ever throw a character, seemingly, out of the air? Instead of getting technical I’ll just say it works similar to “not being able to block when you land”. If Vega ever jumps and sagat just holds forward until the last second, even if vega didn’t attack, and after he lands, sagat can tiger uppercut and vega cannot block. It actually looks like Vega should be able to block it. But he cannot block the instant he lands. So you can actually do the TU after he lands.

So Vega cannot really jump against a good Sagat with any reflexes. Vega cannot fly off of the wall 95%of the time as well. The tiger uppercut does too much damage. Basically, you go off of
the wall and Sagat holds towards you…if you ever stick out that claw the Tiger uppercut will hit you since Sagat has closed distance AND if you don’t get him to block it he can get a free
hit on vega when vega lands, during the bounce. Vega has to really set this up off of sagat’s tiger patterns or off of a trip. Sagat can literally walk towards Vega and wait until the last
second and either hit Vega’s claw or hit him upon landing with a TU or Tiger Knee depending on Range.

So Vega’s air game is of little use, especially if Sagat’s smart enough to whiff a few standing strongs out to make vega seriously time his cross-up wall dive.

So Vega needs to out poke Sagat. Well, Sagat is doing the nasty tiger shot series: Pay Attn. Anytime you have Vega block a low tiger walk forward and follow it. Start closing distance and just use those Rh ones to keep him sharp. You want to get in close enough to use the st. short to tiger 2in1. Here’s the great thing about this move. Not only is it a fast far 2in1 for pressure, But it actually takes out vega’s low slide cleanly. That slide is Very necessary in Vega’s positioning game. So once you touch him with st.short vega is getting backed up. Once he has only half a screen to work with he has no options. Low strong is all he has. You got the TU to take care of any escape or desperate roll, tigers for pressure with the st.short. You have short controlling the ground area…Vega has to do something evasive. And Sagat doesn’t need to differ tactics. Just watch Vega. Just be short when you whiff your standing shorts…don’t be afraid of eating that slide on retraction…just tap short again and you get to combo anything you want for huge damage. The short will eat it clean much later than you might think.

Lastly, jump straight up with RH. That is a game all in itself. You’re not doing much on offense…but it’s great bait and kills most anti-airs. Vega has to slide into the flip kick, jab roll when he’s on the way up, slide under and throw, or do a wall dart. everything but the jab roll can be nailed for huge damage by a well timed TU. You limit Vega’s attack options that way and he can kill himself just trying to know what his options are.

Aggressive Sagat who closes off the screen to Vega with st.short 2 in ones and owning the air with TU and jump straight up RH. All you need. So many times when I see a vega jump over a tiger
it’s clear as day that if the sagat player held forward after the tiger until vega landed then did a TU…Vega would not be jumping over Tigers like that. And that takes away what ppl thought
was his asset in the match to begin with. Vega can’t jump Tigers like ppl think he can. The bounce is the huge downfall and a great sagat can utilize knowledge of the bounce to where Vega can’t do much of anything without taking real damage. It becomes a washout.

thanks alot, I’d recently been trying to find that exact guide :slight_smile:

Sagat’s Tiger Knee

Just a little bit on the knee…

It -is- possible to go over FBs, and even hit the opponent as the throw the FB… it’s just difficult. The knee is slow to come off the ground and you will usually eat the FB if not timed right. You have to start it much earlier than you would in HF.

Also, the danged thing doesn’t seem to knock down, only on the last part. I think it has 3 hitting stages, the first 2 don’t knockdown i don’t think. (down low, travelling up, final pose) Not a big worry IMO, it hasn’t happenned to me very much… but when it does, it sucks. Why they don’t all connect for 3 hit combo is beyond me.

what is the code/button combination to pick O Sagat on the DC?

thanks

TIGAHHH! NI! I’m almost convinced this is N.Sagat’s best move. :slight_smile: You’ll never land a crossup without it.

>bump<

it’s up, down, down, up + jab (or any button really)…though mashing up and down works just as well.

next time, check gamefaqs.com

Just thought I would revive this thread… I expect people will still want to know about Sagat with AE out. But now there are changes, and there are the other Sagats to consider.

Some questions:

  1. Anyone know exactly how O.Sagat was changed in AE? Like, is it just the FB speed? Or what stuff listed above DOESN’T work in AE?

  2. which is the best Sagat now? CE I assume with his crazy damage TU? Are his FBs better/worse than ST O.Sagat?

  3. If you HAD to pick a newer Sagat (SSF2-Sagat, ST-Sagat, or O.Sagat) which one is better? Is O.Sagat still better than the other 2 in AE? Or would you just pick N.Sagat (let’s say you prefer the newer style knee)

I think they made it harder for Old Sagat to combo 2 low tigers in AE.

CE Sagat is probably the best. He has an easier time clearing FBs with the knee, does more damage, fireballs are still really good.

I’d go with SSF2 sagat or ST Old Sagat.

What is it though… ? Are his FBs slower? Or is it that there’s more recovery. I dunno… it just feels… wrong. When I use O.Sagat in AE, I don’t get that “holy shit i’m a cheap powerhouse” feeling I get when I play him in ST. Feels a lot like N.Sagat to me. :confused:

I’m pretty sure they added more recovery time to low tigers for SSF2 Sagat and O Sagat in HSF2. CE Sagat is the way to go, but then you lose one of Sagat’s best weapons, low tiger cancelled off 2nd hit of stand short.