SSF2T Sagat + AE Sagats, Tweaks, and Differences
EDIT: Just putting in some basic stuff for those new to the thread…
O.Sagat is way better than new
Anti-airs: DEEP uppercut, s.rh
Basic strategy: Pound away with low tigers, deep uppercut (or another AA) when they jump
Basic Combo: jump attack (short can crossup), s.short (2 hits), uppercut. If short is blocked you can try for throw instead.
Who Does well against that beast O.Sagat and why?
I think i remember reading somewhere that Sim does well against him? Are there any characters that are really really fucked against O.Sagat?
**Posted by brian on 02-05-2003 06:49 AM: **
dhalsim owns o.sagat for free. far drill on reaction over low tigers kills sagats fireballing (hit from even the opposite side of the screen). Slides are guaranteed anti-air. Dhalsim is a throw whore, and o.sagat cant tech throws. standing fierce under high tigers. I think that does it.
Another O.sagat question: To what extent is the T.U. a guaranteed anti air if timed properly? Specifically, when I play agaisnt chun li, I get stuffed vs jumping short a LOT. Other jump ins stuff me frequently too. Am I necessarily timing it wrong? I know youre supposed to do it deep, but if I do it as deep as possible, will it automatically not get stuffed?
**Posted by dogberry on 02-05-2003 06:51 AM: **
marvelscrub:
yes! maybe ST talk isn’t totally dead yet.
Anyway, Dhalsim does really well against Old Sagat. Mainly because he has little problems avoiding those tiger shot barrages that makes old Sagat so good.
As for washout matches, Zangief gets beaten by Sagat really badly. I think Hawk does as well, and to a lesser extent Cammy and Vega, but both of them have a lot of trouble against Sagat.
Does anyone know how CHun Li fares against Sagat?
Brian:
I think with the TU the later you do it the less chances of air attacks stuffing the uppercut. I don’t believe the TU ever is a 100% sure thing because it’s not invincible like Old Ryu’s SRK, but as u said, the later u do it, the better chances u have of hitting with it, and done late the worst that will probably happen is trading hits, which is usually in your favour since the TU does so much damage.
**Posted by MCloud on 02-05-2003 08:02 AM: **
Doing the TU late, and doing the TU deep increase your chance of hitting the jumping-TU-snuffing/trading bitch, but there is one more thing that improves your chances (actually in my experience guarantees a clean hitting Tiger Uppercut), and that is…
Starting your uppercuts from the crouching position.
In other words… doing the UCut motion fast enough (starting from the crouching positon) so that you (Sagat) do not get hit while standing before your UCut comes out.
coolness, thats a pretty smart trick, by ducking u r increasing the deepness of the opponents jump in making the TU have a better chance of not being stuffed or traded with…
what of balrog, bison, and ummmm… dee jay? how does sagat beat them?
**Posted by margalis on 02-05-2003 09:21 AM: **
About the deep Sagat tiger uppercut: If you can do it from crouching without standing well good for you. However there are two tricks you can learn to help you out.
1: Do the TU motion, end on DF, and wait 1/4 second before pressing the button.
2: Do something like a low jab or short and do the TU right as that attack finishes.
#2 is hard to do unless you are very used to playing against that character, but #1 is pretty easy and buys you a bit longer time in crouch.
One other thing to keep in mind is that if someone hits you really high, you can either throw them or TU them before they hit the ground, especially if it was a light attack like Chun jumping short.
**Posted by marvelscrub on 02-05-2003 06:37 PM: **
Brian: Ouch… it seems Sim has answers for everything. Is he the only one that does really well against the one-eyed-wonder?
Dogberry: All the characters you mentioned don’t have FBs… Is that a clue? What about Blanka, Honda, Bison, Rog, and Fei?
As for the Deep TU thing… DEFINITELY the way to go. If you can’t do ducking TU, no one will fear your Sagat.
Here’s a little Question for the Group about Sagat FB’ing:
Ok, so you’ve got you opponent pinned a full screen away, and throw a low tiger and they jump over it. Now they’re about to land a few character widths in front of you. What can you do to keep your offense going?
Some things I’ve seen but don’t think I can rely on:
Hit them before they land with another tiger shot (!)
Hit them with a far Tiger knee before they land
Anti-air far fierce
After they land, i either throw another tiger right off (risky) or hesistate a split sec to see if they DP or something, then far s.short>low tiger
Any ideas? This is the part of my FB trap that I think has the biggest hole. Thanks for the asnwers guys.
**Posted by dogberry on 02-05-2003 11:36 PM: **
Marvelscrub:
Honda/Sagat: Advantage Sagat. Honda can torpedo over low tigers, but he risks running into a TU so it’s not much of an advantage. Honda can try inching in slowly, but then he loses his charge for headbutt. It’s very hard for Honda to get in on a good Sagat and he can’t count on careless low tigers, so Sagat wins.
Balrog/Sagat: this one is a pretty even matchup actually. A lot of this match depends on who can keep ahead in health and how long Sagat can hold Rog off and keep him from building super meter.
I’m not too sure about Bison and Fei. Maybe Jumpsuit Jesse can enlighten us about Fei vs. Sagat. Any Bison players out there?
And about countering jumps:
I use Sagat’s normals to knock opponents back so I can continue the low tiger barrages. Depending on what angle they jump in at and what attacks they can come at me during a jump I will try to pick the best normal to kick them back out.
If they are about to land a few character widths in front of you, I tend to use a stand short or stand forward to kick them back. stand fierce or another Low tiger work also. It’s really about positioning and timing and picking the best one.
**Posted by margalis on 02-06-2003 01:37 AM: **
Typically you don’t want people pinned at full screen distance, you want them at 3/4 screen or so. If they are ful screen away and jump over the only thing you can really do is throw another tiger shot.
Posted by Apoc
If they jump you can walk forward and use any air defenses depending on what they do. These include:st/cr. fierce, st.strong, cr.RH, cr.forward, tiger knee, TU, throw another short tiger, st. forward, jumping RH etc. If you have them pinned in the corner, slowly advancing will cut the screen off anyway so full screen can only last so long. There is NO trip guard and a TU is invincible(unless you use new sagat) when done deeply. Therefore, as long as you use these air defenses properly, the opponent will at least eat something upon landing or stick out a move that your TU could eat for huge damage. Just gotta keep a close eye on them. They have to stick something out most of the time if they are going to jump on reaction unless they want to land on something for free. Not much they can do there until they get closer. Jumping should do nothing for them unless they make a blind guess. At worst, the opponent should land blocking pushed right back where he came from. Seriously though, jumping, for the most part, is not a great way to cover distance when facing Sagat. Characters have other means of travelm heheh.
**Posted by Maxstah on 02-06-2003 04:55 AM: **
actually about the Tiger uppercut being invincible apoc, thats not really true. good timed hurricane with shotos will knock it out clean even done deep. hard shit, Marwan was really good with it in the tapes and also certain things like fei’s triple kick done up close(not really usable) will make tu just whiff through
**Posted by MArvelscrub **
Yeah… that’s the problem! I love it when they’re at the range where i can pop them with a TU… But if they block the FB or get hit, they go back to full screen. Then I try to make them jump into a high one if they’re anxious, or land on a slow high one… But it’s nothing great.
I suppose I could walk towards a bit to close the gap… but I can’t resist throwing the tigers like a maniac.
I’ll have to try what Apoc mentioned (thanks BTW)
Another Question (i ask too many): What are some good uses for the Tiger Knee? Outside of combo, and far-range-unexpected anti-air I can’t get much out of it. Sure the ol’ whiff knee into TU/throw is a neat trick, but just a trick. I wish the quick HF knee was still there… I loved that thing for dodging FB’s and stuff. It was so fast. I have trouble with the new one, am I timing it wrong?
**Posted by margalis on 02-06-2003 05:43 AM: **
You mean you have trouble doing it?
If you are getting a normal jump instead it means you are doing it too late. Better to press the button early, for two reasons:
1: A standing kick is less dangerous than a random jump
2: If you do get a standing kick, the negative edge might still cancel it in the first few frames and give you the knee.
