SRK Poker thread

Wanderer, what are you trying to get out of the game? Making money at poker in the long run is hard unless you put in a lot of time and money. If you play casually, it can be an expensive hobby when the cards don’t go your way.

Cable and ssjtin made excellent points. I’d like to reinforce that poker, like all games, is about making decisions. Low level, small buy in games are the equivalent to a fighting game where you make two decisions and the game is over (but worse, because making the right decisions could still result in you losing in the short term). If you want to mitigate the bad luck, you will have to come to each game w/ multiple buy ins and be willing to withstand wild swings. I’d say bring $300 per session and have $2000 for a bankroll, while trying to learn really tight poker. Do you have that kind of money and are you willing to lose it? It’s something you need to think about before playing casino poker w/ the intent to make money.

I wanna be good enough to hold my ground at a casino. I don’t plan on taking it seriously but good enough to win a couple hundred at a casino. I want to have fun but at the same time win you know. Not sure if that makes sense.

Viscant plays or played quite a bit too.

People move to Vegas all the time to play pro. Some do alright, some have to find work to fund the hobby, others go home broke.

its not that hard, i know how to play, but i’m not huge into strats and the math and all that and i can go to a casino and make money. after a week in vegas i walked out up a grand…although half of that was because i won a tourny on my last day there. Go to exclaibur and play the 30 dollar tournies during the day or play at the .25/.50 table there. You only need to put in 40 bucks and can rack up a couple hundred pretty quickly depending on how things go. You’re not risking a ton of cash and the competition isn’t anything special.

[LIST]
[]Poker is such a game of knowing many situations and deciding what to do based not only on what you’ve got, but also based on what your opponent has done, and hasnt done. Observation, forget about tells, that’s another animal in its own but observing bets pre/post flop turn and river and knowing where u stand on each street. That’s just a very very simplistic breakdown of the brain power needed. Patience of waiting for hands to play, it’s a long game and it’s a game based on longevity not short stints, that’s just the games nature.
[
]Next level is learning the percentages of what beats your hand and what you beat, and if the money in the pot or the money you are being raised on requires you to throw out the rules you’ve been working hard to follow.
[]Respect, that is an extremely hard thing you need to learn if youre new. Bluffing at a higher level of play is not that frequent, make sure you are not getting bored too, online poker was perfect for this fact also.
[
]Luck: yes there’s the luck factor, but in the long run correct play and decision making always surpasses luck.
[]Essential learning and reading other than those 2+2 forum faqs, check: Phil Gordons Little green book and Barry Greensteins Ace on the River, Doyle’s SuperSystem1&2. Check out on youtube “poker teaches” in the search box i think that’s the name, it should be there, most simplistic way on what your mind set should be in poker.
[
]WSOP on espn and Rounders Fox Sport Poker Tour, B.S. watch it for fun but those are all manufactured hands that they display and specific situations.
[]Poker after Dark, High Stakes Poker, Lucky Me is about as close to the game as there is in mainstream
[
]Keep your mind in the game and learning dont be distracted. Have a bankroll to keep your game going and consistent, you dont want to stop playing for a month or two just cause you’ve got to recover lost funds, so build your BR before you seriously start.
[]Only reason im posting this is im in limbo/retired cuz of the death of online poker. You dont want to play smart players or better players, this is the biggest difference between poker and sf even bigger than dexterity or reaction. You want stupid players or scrubs as your competition. (Poker and SF have a huge common mental aspect that they both share)
[
]Only real regret is that i wish i’d’ve spent all my time on sf on poker instead, could be one of the biggest regrets in my life. online poker isn’t perfect but cant wait for a year or two or whatever for it to come back. And im in no situation to consistently play live, i never built a big enough bankroll unfortunately.
[]In short: Patience Observation Discipline and Resilience and financed , the above is just a little more detailed
[
]Good luck.
[*]edit: youtube vid is long and alittle boring but if youre serious it should be okay to sit through lol : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icGaDA0hLMk
[/LIST]

sorry for the incredibly dumb question but i just signed up for pokerstars, how do i add money to my account to bet with?

Click Cashier, it’s up in the top left and there should also be a big red button. Find the “buy chips” option, enjoy.

oh nvm for some reason US players are blocked from playing. anyone know how long this will last?

Do you prefer online or offline poker ssjtin?

Also, is it easier to play poker online for money or harder? I’m might try playing online but have no clue how it works whatsoever.

Haha, look up “poker black friday”. US players are out indefinitely, don’t hold your breath.

Wanderer, I specialize in live cash games nl holdem. Live is sooooo much easier than online, it’s pretty much unanimous amongst pro poker players. For example, as I improved I was crushing the $2-4 tables at my casino (400NL), but online I could barely beat 10c-25c. Beyond 25NL (that annotation means 100 buy ins of the big blind, so 100x 25c = 25nl), most of the players are playing a tighter aggressive game and know at least how they should play to make a profit. You won’t be grinding any where near a decent amount of money until you’re multitabling 25nl or preferably higher.

The reason the higher stakes guys prefer online is that once you hit a certain limit, usually 200nl and higher, you can make a lot more money playing online than live. Multitabling, you can play 500+ hands an hour compared to ~30/hour at the casino. That’s why I’m gradually grinding a bankroll online, I’ve grinded $100 to just over $400 over 5 months. If I can keep building it up then maybe one day I can grind a good profit online, but the game is tough. And it really is a grrriiiiiiind. It can become mindless button pushing after a while, and you gotta put in good volume if you want to get somewhere - that means 4,6,8 hours a day!

So yeah, if you got enough money behind you, learn to crush the live game. It is easy money, and most of the players are so bad. Compared to making $300 online in 5 months, I made $500 in 2 hours on Thursday.

Solid brag, and I’m out.

dam, just looked it up and i gotta say i wouldn’t wanna be that daniel guy right now.

Poker is becoming an expensive hobby of mine. I started playing regularly after Black Friday so I’ve only been playing 1-2 NL live mostly. I’m down around $500 (3 losing sessions, 1 winning session, and a few one table tournaments I didn’t make the money in). I also won $130 from my co-workers home tournament, so I guess we can factor that in. I know I’m not horribly bad, but I can admit I’m not a winning player because I’m not good enough right now. I can afford to lose that much, but I don’t want to be down over 1K. That would be too depressing.

What’s your advice for me? Should I keep going to casinos? Each visit, I put aside $400 (two buy-ins). Is there a better way to learn atm?

Here are some of my known weaknesses.

– I don’t raise as often as I think I should
– I’m still playing with scared money (Like I said, I can afford it, but I’m a cheap ass lol)
– I chase cards too often. Sometimes though, I would have so many outs after the flop (like 15+) and I would just straight up miss costing me $50+. In these cases, should I feel bad about my play? I guess the answer is pot odds, but I’m not good enough to calculate that on the fly yet.

Thank you.

Hey zenkix. Your problem is that you’re thinking too small. Being down $500 after 4 sessions is no indication of anything. You need to look at the whole picture after a much longer period, such as 3 months+ to have some idea. I assume the buy in is max $200, so really you’re down 2.5 buy in’s…that’s nothing.

I also usually bring only 2-3 buy in’s, because if you’re stuck that much, any subsequent buy in’s you’ll just think about recouping loss which is not optimal play. I prefer to call it a day then and come back another day with a fresh head.

The best way for you to play is to set aside a number of buy in’s. For live casino play, where the games are fairly fishy, 10-15 buy in’s is sufficient. So if the max buyin is $200, set aside a theoretical 2-2.5k. Then keep a record of each session you play, the number of hours, and the profit or loss. Also remember key hands, key mistakes, note them and what you should have done differently. Don’t look at it as a series of single sessions, but as one loooong session. Losing 2 buy in’s in one day doesn’t necessarily mean you suck, but being down 10 buy in’s over a month play might.

To your other points. Raise or bet for one of two purposes. To get your opponent to fold a better hand, or to get them to call you with a worse hand. In live poker, most of them time you’re trying to get them to call with worse, as they hate to fold better hands and will most likely call you down with top pair or better. Really, it comes down to a lot of factors and experience. Don’t get into the habit of betting when they can only call you with a better hand, and will always fold with worse hands. For example, say opponent raises preflop and only does so with 10 10+, AQ+, and you call with 99. The flop comes Q 4 2, opponent checks, and you think he probably missed completely. Should you bet? There are you hands you beat that he can call you with (unless he sucks), and he calls with hands that all dominate you.

As for playing with scared money…don’t. Teach yourself not to, and set aside a balance of poker money and only poker money. Money is just for keeping score.

For chasing outs, mutiply the outs by 2 for the odds with one card to come, and by 4 for 2 cards to come. So with 15 clean outs, and turna nd river to come your odds are 60% (actually closer to 54%). The rule of 2 and 4 is an approximation. If you’re sure you have 15 outs, get it call in on the flop. The problem people have is they estimate their equity with 2 cards to come, then pay way too much to see just one card. Say you have a 30% chance to make the nut flush, the pot is $45, and he bets $30. Looks good right? Calling $30 to win $75 with a 1/3 chance? Your odds of hitting on the turn is actually only about 17%. You miss. The pot is now $105, he bets $70. Again the price is too high.

Then implied odds comes into it. Can I pay too much for the turn card, knowing that if I hit my straight he’ll have no idea and I’ll take his chips on the river? This rarely applies to flush draws as everybody looks for them, but more for chasing your combo draws and two pair draws.

Ok that’s a lot of information and I probably rambled a bit. Hope it helps.

Wow, that is very helpful information. Thanks!

I feel a lot better about being down $500. I’ll try looking at the bigger picture, but it it will probably take longer than three months. See, casinos are not allowed in my state (MO) so I actually have to drive an hour to the nearest one whenever I play live. In three months, I would play there maybe less than five times. It’s just a hobby right now. Still though, I really want to realize I suck now and improve instead of waiting until I lose 20+ buy-ins. Guess I just need some winning sessions to boost confidence.

One of my ideas to improve is to try online poker. Bodog is still online and I can play there anytime. This would be a much cheaper learning experience than going to the casino. However, I’m worried that I won’t be able to tell the difference and just play the same way in both live and online. So I can end up losing money twice as fast and learning weird habits because the two are completely different.

Here’s another weakness of mine - staying a winner during a session. In all four of my sessions, I would play really tight in the beginning. This prevents me from busting early. After a couple of hours, I’m able to get some premium hands and actually be up $200. The problem is…during the last part of my session, I lose my winnings and become down $200. Really, the only reason I have that one winning session is because I was with my friends then and had to leave the table after only an hour of playing. And I don’t even suffer from bad beats that much really. My chips just slowly disappear. Like I said, it’s probably from chasing cards and not staying tight and also from feeling more confident and trying to bluff calling stations. I tend to make stupid bluffs towards the end of my session thinking my super tight table image will work out for me…it never does.

Man, I feel like I know how to fix most of my leaks…but once I’m at the casino, in a middle of an important hand, I ignore and forget everything. T_T

Bump. What’s the status on USA Online Play? I haven’t been in the loop since Black Friday and I lost my FTP account :frowning:

Same as before.

Pokerstars is reportedly buying out Full Tilt, and refunding everyone’s money from the screwjob Lederer, Ferguson, and Bitar put on everyone.

Considering how well Stars has played ball, and that Party bailed as soon as UIGEA passed in 2006, those two would probably be the first to get back into the US when online poker legalizes (well…if)

I’m reviving this thread with a bad beat story.

This guy limps and I raise from the button with AJ of diamonds. He re-raises and I call. I already know he has a big pocket pair so I just wanted to get lucky on the flop, plus I have position. The flop is 825 ALL DIAMONDS. He bets, I raise, he calls. Turn is another 8. He bets, I raise, he goes all in. Again, I put him on big pocket pair so I wasn’t worried about a boat here – I call. River is a third 8 and he flips over pocket kings. Whoohoo! lol

– Any good news about US online poker?
– Anybody watching the Main Event?
– I heard something about Rounders 2…is it real?

So I loaded 200$ and decided to build a br in micros. I didn’t play since 2009. Fuck man pokerstars is dry as fuck now. Even NL10 only has nits. I don’t know if I can even build a roll fast on online poker anymore.

Phil Hellmuth Jr. greatest of all time… ide say discuss but there is no discussion :slight_smile: