I respect the opinion and your proposed changes for Hugo do “tone down the cheese” without completely annihilating him. More recovery on a blocked lariat is an interesting idea I hadn’t thought of before. As long as he could still juggle after it (as a reward for guessing right/reading) I think this would be a good balance to punish when it’s a wrong guess or just sticking it out stupidly. Frankly, though, he needs to be fundamentally changed to be viable and he won’t be so whatever. I just want the character to have something.
Really agree with the quoted part - this is exactly how I feel about my character, too. He already struggled with bad matchups, now his few tools that he had have been gutted.
he’s still be able to juggle after it. The changes i proposed would make a hit far more rewarding (and scary) but a miss or block very bad. this is fair as the juggle potential of clap and lariat were increased you wouldnt see too much as far as different combos mid screen (clap could combo into itself but that’s it) but in the corner he would rape. LP clap is still safe (except to some supers and 3 framers if you do it at point blank making people more likely to use it at mid to max range to ensure safety) and it would become his go to bnb starter. it would enable hugo to deal with fireball pressure slightly better (by clapping them)and ultra throw would be a way for hugo to put the opponent in the corner without whiffing everything. he’d have clear weaknesses and strengths without changing his fundamental aspect of being slow and retarded, but not make his only useful tools “cheap” His big weakenss would still be anti airing and footsies and he would probably eat a ton of damage but the fact he has a viable way to pressure the opponent (with command grabs that should be about the same as Gief’s MP SPD range)and very quickly turn the match around would compensate for it. Claps will become a bit more annoying to deal with but because there’s no armor or invincibility it’s more risky to attempt to abuse
All buffs were offset with a nerf but the buffs were slightly better than the worse nerfs. That would make him viable both as a tag partner and as a single character although… nerf to lariat damage probably is a bit much. Maybe tier it to where HP does more damage but then startup would need to be decreased or hitbox size would need to be increased to make using MK and HK lariat useful.
pandora: be careful with this … i use it all the time and really dont think its that bad, people just never think about using it and have no practice applying it for real.
ground bounce off A to A normals - leads to stupid damage - pandora for free and makes people play their characters like shit… looking at u dudley/ibuki
jin - force people to play him right … tired of seeing jump hk jump hk
kaz - even worse than jin no one even trys his harder combos and they still win for free.
ryu - i question the sanity of anyone who thinks his nerfs aren’t just fine… learn some frame traps and use his cadc or u should lose ( the only thing crazy about it is that jin and kaz are so broke yet buffed)
rufus - hahahaha lower his damage on everything, keep the juggle points and dive kick being++ i like my rufus to use overheads, dive kick spam and his mk roll tired of l…l…l…o shit!! LLLLMH
guy - st jab … make it hit crouch with bad range or buff bushin combo more MAYBE let him combo cr.lk off a super meaty OH ( if u go play guy try to land a point blank OH then realize the startup is ass much like ADON he will probably never land it point blank) note: he can cancel OH to shoulder so…
people crying about nerfs to runaway - learn some rushdown or gtfo … OR MAYBE u should play sim … O WAIT that would take skill … nvm
I collected some insightful comments about Cammy I’d like to see SRK pass on to Capcom regarding her re balance:
-I think Cammy needs a slightly faster IA Cannon Strike, as you say, there’s no reason to use it against good players. It’s laughably easy to anti air right now. Her St.Hk should also crumple on counter hit, as that would make her footsies more scary.
-Buff Cannon-Strike (maybe reduce the start-up of the EX version and make both the EX version and the regular version recover faster on block), perhaps make standing :hk: crumple on counter-hit like Ken’s. Perhaps EX Cannon-Strike crumple on counter-hit as well?
-It would definitely be nice to get a crumble somewhere in her game, if only to open up more options. I still hate that the only way to get any sort of bounce/crumple with her is to blow meter on a really meh move AKA QUICK SPIN KNUCKLE. Cannon Strike recovering slightly faster would be nice as well. It’s not useless right now, but as it stands compared to most dive kicks… Yeah.
-What Cammy needs is some kind of CRUMPLE move on counter hit or some kind of special move that will Crumple or wall bounce, in the vein of Vega’s wall dive on counter hit I think it is or Balrog’s running punch that on certain hits will wall bounce. Cammy has to spend a bar of meter on a slow, easy to react to move in order to get a wall bounce.
-In my opinion the cannon strike by itself should recover faster on block because its absolute garbage that players like Rufus can spam dive kick which not only activates quicker in the air but also recovers faster, so what I propose is that if the move remains as slow starting up in the air, it needs to recover faster on block. This would still give players the ability to react to the dive kick but also make the move SEMI viable for Cammy players, as it is now there is no real viable use for the non-ex version of that move.
-It wouldn’t hurt to throw it out there that she also has NO overhead move…if we are throwing out suggestions maybe the fact that they are allowing cannon strike out of hooligan a new component to her arsenal of tools, it could be an overhead hitting move. This provides a better risk/reward for using the cannon strike, especially due to how slow it starts up and recovers in addition to the fact that she is lacking an overhead.
Only buff I think Cammy should have is that the normal cannon strike should have the same Hit/block stun as EX version, but make the EX version either faster or have some other special property such as being an overhead.
sorry its pretty clear that the first few things a scrub learns is 1.mash shoryu 2. fireball 3. AA 4. jump back hk until option 1 2 or 3 comes up.
they do this because they dont know what footsies , frame traps , baits or corner pressure is and everyone bitches about it in sfxt because u can ROLL then teleport with the fastest clock and longest screen ever gg. runaway all game is for SCRUBS, takes VERY LITTLE SKILL IF ANY esp when u have a stupid tag cancel setup like yoshi. dont even have to argue this, capcom is clearly sick of how people play akuma/alisa
on topic: i love the akuma BUFFS maybe people will start doing real setups now that u can cancel far hp…
Don’t forget that 2nd hit of Cl St.:hk: causing a ground-bounce against aerial opponents. It would open up a TONNE of options in my opinion depending on where they land simply because in theory.
His Misogi will be much easier to land mid-screen. Currently the only way to do it is to do a st/cr.:lp: and then cancel it into the Misogi for some Mediocre damage in comparison to other cast members. But now since it does cause a ground-bounce against aerial opponents it should be much easier to combo into when you also consider that the second hit of his Cl St.:hk: will also be special cancelable as well.
So when that patch drops you should be able to do it off of an :lk: Tatsu, set-up Pandora for your partner much easier as well as make wall-bounce Pandora set-ups much easier to do.
Mashing shoryu does nothing to runaway. You have to be close to your opponent to have shoryu mashed on you, hence its not runaway.
Fireballs are pokes and part of learning good spacing. Learning good spacing is also contributive towards learning good footsies.
Being able to AA is actually a footsie skill.
As far as I’ve seen in SFxT, “scrubs” tend to be more offensive if anything. Random jumping attacks into whatever boost chain or high-low mixup. Running away all game is NOT for scrubs, its actually the best way to learn footsies. Long distance zoning actually takes more skill in this game as opposed to rushdown. Consider the risk-reward for a moment: if you score a fireball hit, you get 40-60 damage; if you don’t, you get jump-attacked into a boost chain. And avoiding fireballs is easier in this game, as neutral jumps are easier to time and stages are big.
I hope you realize that big stages contribute to zoning as much as they take away from it. What good is a fireball if it cannot apply long-distance pressure? You ever play SF2? You had to respect fireballs at ANY distance in that game. I’ve played DGV a ton, he’s a very famous U.S. ST Ryu player. One mistake at the beginning of the match by me–I played Cammy–would literally end the round. Fireball traps could be almost inescapable in that game, you REALLY don’t realize how much easier it is to avoid runaway in SFxT. You really don’t.
Zoning is not for scrubs, I’ll re-iterate once again that its a STAPLE of Street Fighter. Any half-decent player should NOT be losing to players jumping back with RH a whole round. And lastly, Capcom is NOT sick of how people play Akuma and Alisa. Misinformed players who lack fundamentals and have no clue how to evade the easiest fireball traps since SF4 are the ones who are sick of how Akuma and Alisa play. Capcom is just catering to those people because its also misinformed and seems to be forgetting what makes Street Fighter… well, STREET FIGHTER.
haha you missed my point entirely in the beginning all i was saying is turtle and waiting for a clear punish is one of the first things a new player learns and most scrubs stick to it because learning frame traps or reading your enemy & taking chances is to hard. Sure you can still make reads and good reactions while jumping back with say… morrigan/doom but ur still a lame scrub.
o and lets play theory fighter and blame capcom for the worst updates ever because we are all so smart knowing 100% what we are talking about /SARCASM
All I’m gonna say is, if runaway is so powerful and amazing then how come Akuma is sitting in B tier? Based on his tools he should be totally OP, no?
Anyway, I’m done. All I want with my posts is for newer SF players to stop thinking that zoning is for novice players. That’s insulting to the franchise.
There’s nothing wrong with zoning at all, it’s part of the game.
With my characters, I play very very defensively, it’s smart to be defensive when you have a life lead, it’s a legit strategy, not gonna run in and get myself killed when I could be making them come towards me, this is especially effective in SFxT, have you ever had that moment when your opponent lands a combo on you but didn’t have enough time to finish it because of timeout and you win, that’s all part of this strategy, no shame in running the clock.
Exactly. I don’t want Capcom catering to people whose mindset is “ZOMG IF U RUNAWAYZ U R SCRUBZ,” that kind of mentality is present in people who don’t understand the foundation of Street Fighter. Of course I’m not going to walk into Zangief, lol (I hate when people send those kinds of hatemail messages, calling me a pussy for running from the best close-range character). Nerfing boost chains (done) and extending the clock ~30 seconds will solve much of the games problems, not brutally neutering a strategic component of the game for a supposedly easy solution.
Supposedly they’re attempting to re-balance the game. I hope they give more thought to what Street Fighter as a whole is meant to be about, because many of the changes they made were actually fine - at least for the Tekken side.
Perhaps that’s the beauty of 2D fighting games in which their 3D counterparts couldn’t achieve: the variety of ways in winning a match. Games like Tekken, Soul Calibur, and Virtua Fighter can only win through rushdown while 2D fighters added zoning and long-distance battles to the mix. The only true 3D fighting game I know which incorporates zoning would be Mortal Kombat 4 (not sure about DA, Deception, and Armageddon).