I don’t mean to turn this thread into a MJ vs. Gwen thing but I knew it was gonna pop up eventually. While I don’t outright hate, Gwen, I don’t think she’s the “perfect” woman so many make her out to be/remember her as. Of course MJ isn’t perfect either. As much as I love MJ, I HATE smoking and it sure rubbed Peter the wrong way. Of course she hasn’t touched a cig in ages so its all good. As for the faked death, I thought MJ took that job and got on that plane to get away from a stalker. I didn’t read that story, just read about it.
I admit that Gwen kicking the bucket made for a heck of a story and the impact it had on Peter’s life can be felt to this day, way too much, IMO. So many writers set Gwen up like she was perfect. OK, so MJ got to lessend into the role of damsel in distress because she got to live longer. And Gwen is better because she’s dead? I disagree. A woman doesn’t get to be better off because she’s dead. She still made mistakes when she was alive. Remember when Gwen opened her mouth and told Aunt May not to smother Peter so much? By doing so, she drove Aunt May away, further complicating Peter’s life. And don’t forget, she banged Norman Osborn, Peter’s worst enemy. She hurt Peter from beyond the grave. Actually, I was angery at Osborn when reading Sins Past, but it takes two to tango so as guilty as Osborn is, there’s no changing the fact that Gwen royal screwed up. A woman loses points when she’s dead and STILL manges to cause the ex problems.
But clearly, you prefer Gwen and I prefer MJ. So I’ll leave it at that. :bgrin:
I love JMS. One More Day is weak so far, but DAMN, just about everything else outside of The Other he’s done for Spidey is GOLD. Especially Back in Black and ALL of his Romita Jr. era stuff.
It’s not really a Vs. Thread because Gwen’s already won. We’re just discussing the box score at this point.
She still ignored his phone calls and told him to stay away for several months. She almost got a restraining order. Even when her face was on billboards and advertisements she still tried to hide from Peter. Gwen would never have done that. That’s straight cold.
How is that a bad thing? She was trying to help Peter be less of a Mama’s Boy (or Aunt’s Boy, as the case may be). There’s nothing wrong with that. In fact, Peter were less of a Mama’s Boy, he wouldn’t be faced with this predicament in One New Day. Aunt May’s like 97 years old. She’s had a pretty fulfilling life. Let her go, man. Let her rest. Instead, Peter is a Mama’s Boy and now he’s trying to fix the mistake of his life, the mistake buried deep in his subconscious: his marriage to MJ. I tell you, this whole thing would never have happened if Gwen didn’t die. We wouldn’t be talking about One More Delay and Brand New Day and JACKPOT. Lol, JACKPOT. Gwen never looked that stupid.
Very well. I shall grudgingly concede this point to you. That was Gwen’s sole mistake of her entire life.
This, however, is a blatant lie. Gwen did not hurt Peter from beyond the grave. Mary Jane hurt Peter in Sins Past. Mary’s the one who told him the truth about what happened between Gwen and Norman. If Mary had kept her mouth shut about the one night stand, Peter wouldn’t have been so messed up. Mary thought by telling the truth, she was doing the right thing. But, nope. It was definitely the wrong thing to do. She should have allowed Peter to continue living a lie so that he could continue to be driven and focused.
Or at least she could have told him years ago when they got married or something. Then he wouldn’t have been taken by such surprise in Sins Past.
Mary Jane is better for the fact that she tolerates so much bullshit in her life. She’s Peter’s second love. She tolerates Peter’s superheroic lifestyle. She was there when Peter was at his low.
Gwen fucked Norman Osborn. That right there is alot wrong.
Any of you guys ever check out spiderfan.org? Its a good site but many times I find that I disagree with some of their reviews and some of the rants and raves.
Let’s talk about Kingpin! Long before he was screwing up Matt Murdock’s life, he was causing Spider-Man all kinds of problems. He first appeared in ASM#50 in part of a 3 part story arc. (BTW, the cover to ASM is instant win.) Despite Kingpin’s size, only a small percentage of his body is fat. 2%, I believe. The rest of it is ALL MUSCLE. On many occasions Kingpin has been able to hold his own against Spidey, a guy who usually pulls his punches on foes that have no powers. To this day he’s still one of my fav Spidey villains even though he’s used more as a Daredevil villain now.
Convesrely, Tarantual was a sucktacular villain from day one. Spidey even admited that he as D-list in a story arc Roger Stern wrote on his run in ASM in the '80s. Bravo for killing that loser off. Actually, I felt sorry for him, being turned into a spider and then begging to be killed. Why did Gerry Conway make another Tarantual in Spectacular Spider-Man? Was he mad that Stern killed off his lame villain? Hey, I have respect for Conway but Tarantual SUCKED. May he never appear in the Spider books ever again.
I like the Kingpin, but more as a Daredevil character. One thing I didn’t like about a lot of old school Kingpin vs. Spidey fights is how Kingpin could stand his ground. I mean, when you boil it down, Wilson Fisk is basically just a super strong sumo wrestler in a white suit with a giant bib and purple pants. He should not be able to last more than a minute against Spider-Man.
That’s one thing I really enjoyed about JMS’ Back in Black: the Kingpin getting humiliated so easily.
I also like how Kingpin is involved with Spidey in Ultimate. That makes more sense to me. The way Fisk uses his power and resources to deal with Spidey, rather than just fighting him straight up. Ultimate Fisk was just more ruthless, too, and that’s why the payoffs to his arcs are so satisfying.
Back in the '60s, Kingpin was just treated as mostly a variation of the usual animal-themed opponent with whom Spidey would engage in fisticuffs. I just like the way he’s portrayed today. A crimelord known as the Kingpin should be relentless in dealing with his foes. He should be destroying them from the inside out (see: Born Again) and ruining their personal lives before he crushes them in his spaghetti-stained palm.
One Spidey story I sort of remember from when I was a kid was The Name of the Rose (or something like that) storyline in Web Of Spider-Man. (Alex Saviuk for the win, baby.) I don’t remember too much of the specifics, only that it stood out in my mind and secured my lifelong addiction to Spider-Man. So if anyone remembers more about this storyline, I would like to hear about it.
[EDIT: I just went to that SpiderFan.org site and found info about it there. It sounds like a pretty lame story. Oh, well. Um, either that or the guy who wrote the reviews doesn’t know what’s awesome because I am pretty sure I thought it WAS AWESOME back when I was nine years old!]
But yeah, the Kingpin of the '60s was whack. And those purple pants - dude looked like he was trying to cosplay as the Joker but couldn’t find a purple suit that fit his bulk so he just covered his top with a white coat and giant bib.
I remember back in Gang War (late 80s I believe) when Spidey was fed up with Kingpin and he wanted to beat his ass. Then Daredevil intervened for some reason or other, prolly the usual “the law has to bring him down” and Spider-Man fought Daredevil wearing a Kingpin outfit, so Spidey could blow off his steam while the real Kingpin went unharmed. That’s the Spidey/Kingpin story that sticks out in my mind most because it was so freaking funny to see Kingpin’s head come off to reveal Daredevil in his DD costume underneath wearing stilts.
The reviewer at Spiderfan.org didn’t like JMS Back In Black on ASM. He said Peter was acting so out of character. Hello, this isn’t the first time Peter has been hungery for vengance. Remember what happend to Gwen? No joking around, no smart comebacks. Spidey was out for the Goblin’s blood and he nearly killed him. And don’t forget the Death of Jean DelWolf. Spidey was merciless. Dardevil had to keep him from killing Stan Carter. This is the thing about Spidey being an everyman hero: we see all sorts of sides to him, even his vengful side.
Zeph, I’m with you 100% on JMS Spidey vs. Kingpin. Spidey beat him and got a perfect win. And after the fight, he basically said he owns Fisk. Fisk’s rep is everything to him. For all the stuff he did to Daredevil and for having Aunt May shot, that was a well deserved beating.
So who are your fav Spider-Man artists? I LOVE John Romita Sr.'s work. His Spider-Man was so good it was emulated for decades! I wasn’t too fond of Romita Jr.'s art back in the '90s but in 2002 it really grew on me and I’ve come to appreciate him and his work. Gil Kane has to to be one of the most inconsistent Spidey artists I’ve ever seen. His work on ASM#90 and ASM#121-122 was perfect. In other books it looks like absolute crap. That or it just plane doesn’t work for Spidey.
I think the Ultimate Kingpin stories are like the only standout things about the Ultimate books so far - I haven’t read that much to be honest, but the one arc where Peter gets the job doing the Bugle’s website and fights the Ultimate Enforcers - that was a good story.
One of my biggest shames as a comic book nerd is that I’ve never actually read Amazing Spider-Man #33 (where he’s trapped under that big machine and the room is flooding) in any collected trades or anything either, and it’s supposed to be one of the greatest sequences in comics and possibly the top Spidey moment of all time. It almost has to be - they go through it against almost verbatim like twice a year, and each time it’s still good!
The best was when Dr Octopus beat the crap out of Peter when he was sick, took off his mask and then dismissed him as being an imposter.
( it might have been the same issue as the machine thing actually )
Ol’ school Spider Man was a super huge icon in the 60’s. I was reading how he, along with the hulk, was considered a top counter cultural hero along with like che guerrera in a poll amongst college students.
Do yourself a favor and pick of Essentail Amazing Spider-Man vol. 2. You can find that issue in there. That’s the Master Planner trilogy, which begins in ASM #31. Ah, this is still an awesome story. Some of Stan and Steve’s best work. Spidey lifting that huge weight is one of the greatest moments in comic history. They never really went into how strong Spidey was back then but all that weight had to be more than what he could possibly lift. Aunt May would die if he didn’t lift it so Peter did what he had to.
How about the Spidey/Human Torch friendship-rivalry? These guys butted heads just as often as they’d team-up. Maybe Marvel didn’t want them to be all chummy like Supes and Bats were back then. I dunno the reason, but it made for great stories.
For some Spidey and Human Torch action, check out Dan Slott’s miniseries from a couple years back.
That book is the motherfargin’ truth. Except for some reason it’s not in stock, but now you know what the cover looks like so you can find it at your store.
I may be able to find the single issues in my comic shop. Beats have to pay the price Amazon is asking. I saw the single issues but never thought to buy them.
Hobgoblin was indeed awesome. Def one of my fav Spidey villains. I actually have the issue where he first appeared, ASM#238. Great read. Gotta love how Marvel screwed with us for YEARS on who Hobby really was. It was over a decade until we found out he was Roderick Kingsley.
Peter was the man when it came to women. Liz wanted to get with Peter when he became less timid. Gwen was all hot for Peter but was so irked by the fact that he was the only guy in school that wasn’t openly drooling over her. And MJ probably wanted Peter more than any other woman, even when she was dating Harry. MJ never passed up a chance to make a play for Peter, even when Harry was around. Flash and Harry couldn’t do anything about it. Peter was just that unblockable.
Hobgoblin is probably my favorite Spider-Man villain. It sucks that his backstory’s so damn convoluted, and even the story that finally tells us who he “really” is doesn’t make much sense, but I always loved the concept of the character. And remember the “Demogoblin” from the early '90s? That was whack. I used to dream about writing a Spider-Man epic that involved the Hobgoblin, just so I could retcon the Demogoblin.
One thing that always bugged me about those early Spidey stories was how Peter always got all the chicks. I mean, he was supposed to be the quintessential nerd and wimp, right? So how come all these hot chicks were always swooning over him? That was the sort of thing that took me out, as a reader, of the verisimilitude of his world. (LOL!!! I used the v-word in a conversation! That’s my English degree in action!!!)
I mean, I could understand a few homely girls being mildly interested in him. That would’ve been believable. MAYBE even one pretty girl (Gwen, because she was smart and not shallow. Unlike Mary!) liking him could have been believable. But it’s like you said, bub. There were so many chicks who were into him! Liz, Gwen, Betty Brant, MJ, Gloria Grant, Jessica Jones, Felicia Hardy, May Parker… The list just goes on and on. It was absurd.
That’s just plain taunting the average reader, who generally tended to be a nerd and thus identified with the title character of his favorite monthly serialized publication. See, reading Spider-Man comics as a kid really fucked me up for life. I thought it was okay to be a geeky nerd, because from reading Spidey, I actually thought girls were attracted to nerds. I thought it was okay to wear thick glasses and wool vests over button down shirts to high school. I thought it was okay to eat wheat cakes for breakfast every day. I thought it was normal to be a loser. From reading Spider-Man, I thought girls were naturally attracted to social outcasts. That’s why, tonight for example, I am writing about comic books and still hoping a beautiful woman will somehow read my post and PM me so we can meet up and make wonderful comic book-reading babies together.
If I remember right, Peter’s level of female attention was a little more realistic in the Ditko days. In fact, it seemed like he could never catch a break, like he was damned to be alone. It was a little after that era that things got ridiculous with the women.
Yeah, when Ditko was plotting, Peter had crappy luck with women, but if he stayed a lonely loser forever, he wouldn’t have made much progress. Even in the Ditko days, Peter was way out of his introverted stage in soscial interaction with the ladies. Women just knew a good man when they saw one and Peter was as good as it got.
One thing that irked me was that Peter actually decided to keep dating Black Cat after he revealed his identity to her. She was disgusted by the man behind the mask. But Peter, like everyone else, wants to be loved and in a relationship. Still, I felt that was one of his weakest moments. If she couldn’t care for Peter, then she shoulda kicked her out of his aparetment, via the skylight entrance. So when he was boinking Black Cat, did he keep his mask on? Man, that’s… kinky?
Ditko’s way was more realistic for a dork like Pete, but I agree that it would have gotten stale had they kept up with it. I also think Ditko was in love with the idea of a hero being 100% dedicated to his crime fighting activities, to the point where he sabotaged his personal relationships to avoid any potential lapses in judgment. Which is a little weird, since Ditko was also way into Ayn Rand, whose philosophy condemned that kind of self-sacrifice.
Well, if Watchmen is any indication, the kind of personality it takes to put on a colorful costume and seek out the bad guys might also have bizarre tendencies in… shall we say… other areas of life.
Denny O’Neil did a few issues on ASM. I read his ASM Annual #15. It was fantastic stuff. Story involved Doc Ock and Punisher. Denny is THE MAN. Everyone was written in character and Spidey’s oneliners were on point. I’m not sure if it’s included on 40 Years of Amazing Spider-Man, but if it isn’t I recommend trying to find a copy. The artwork is also sweet.
My Spider-Sense is tingling! So one of the many things I’ve loved about Spidey is his powers. I think he’s got some of the best ones imaginable. One of my fave’s is his Spider-Sense. I mean the thing is nearly broken in early days as Peter can use it to decode messages. Of course Mysterio and Green Goblin figured out a way to roll cancel Spider-Sense with unique gas. Tough break, Spidey. One think that has irked me over the years is that some writers don’t grasp how the Spider-Sense works. Stan Lee pretty much knew the ins and outs of it. It reacts to all forms of danger, be the danger coming from friends or foes. However, Gerry Conway, back in the day thought Spider-Sense shouldn’t react to threats from friends. So when Aunt May knocked him over the head while he was Spidey, his Spider-Sense didn’t go off. Same deal when the Jackal attacked him from behind. Lameness, man.
See, you might chalk that up to “lameness” or poor writing… But it’s ALL SKILL, BABY. Nobody can defeat Aunt May (or the Jackal). Remember the time she stood up against Galactus?
