Another OMD write up on Newsarama by Lucas Siegel -
Maybe one day, when I’m not too lazy, I’ll start a thread about Crisis.
P.S. Deathy - Deathstroke didn’t fight Firestorm. I think you meant to say Green Lantern. Who threw a punch at the world’s deadliest mercenary. With his ring hand. It takes some damn good skill to manipulate the Green Lantern into NOT using the most powerful weapon in the universe.
I got Erik Larsen’s opinion. Um, close enough? 
**The folks at Marvel have been trying to find a way to break up Peter and MJ for years–the whole Clone Saga was an attempt to do that and Howard Mackie and John Byrne were attempting to do that as well when they blew up a plane with MJ in it during their run on the book.
The powers that be didn’t want them getting divorced because that puts a cloud over the whole thing and it ages the characters that much more–they really didn’t have a lot of options if ending that marriage was the goal.
I thought the actual story as printed was incredibly dumb. There were occasional nice lines in there–but the basis on which the Devil stepping in was just stupid. Peter and MJ did not have this perfect ideal marriage that was so different and special and noteworthy from everybody else that it stood out as something idyllic and ideal. That part of it just rang untrue–the two had all kinds of problems from jealousy issues and imagined infidelities to money problems to the two ignoring each other for months on end–and that made Mephisto’s rationale just nonsensical–it wasn’t a perfect relationship that comes about once in a million years–it was pretty typical stuff outside of the colorful tights. The whole thing was ridiculous.
But in the end–Peter and MJ are again unmarried and all sorts of other things are undone and writers and artists that follow can do a Spider-Man the way the suits in charge think he ought to be. I just don’t think readers are going to be quite as willing to believe that the next big change won’t be similarly written out of existence when the wind changes.
I’m sure DC will be watching how this goes so they can restore Lois and Clark to their original state.
I–personally–would have had Peter and Mary Jane get divorced if it was determined that the marriage absolutely had to be ended. It’s more honest and–as long as their divorce isn’t dwelled on and referred to over and over in the comics–it gets the same result. I know plenty of people that were once married and as far as anybody knows–they’re simply single. It makes sense for MJ to give it up. Certainly the threats to her and Peter would be enough to make her want to take a hike.
As far as how it undid any issues I worked on and how I feel about that–it really doesn’t bother me in the slightest.
These stories–all of them-- didn’t “really” happen anyway. It’s all made up stuff–people have been contradicting each other and ret-conning stuff for years–this is more of the same. They weren’t referring to my stories before Spider-Man: One More Day–they won’t be referring to my stories after Spider-Man: One More Day so it really doesn’t change much as far as it relates to me. The issues I did can still be purchased and enjoyed, I suppose. They haven’t started going into people’s homes and ripping up their back issues–yet.
-Erik Larsen
Publisher
Image Comics
www.imagecomics.com
www.savagedragon.com **
Source -
That’s one thing that really bugs me about this: from square one, Pete was always supposed to be an average Joe. He wasn’t like Batman, who’s fabulously rich and batshit crazy (no pun intended), and he wasn’t like Superman, who’s got dual citizenship between Earth and somewhere else–he’s just a guy who happens to have superpowers and some long underwear in the closet.
Not only would Pete and MJ’s divorce not cast some sort of awful pall over the Spider-books, it would work. If Pete is the guy who balances life as a costumed adventurer with the problems that an everyday fella would deal with, then divorce is perfect. It accomplishes the goal of busting up the marriage, and furthermore, it does away with all of the fantastical crap that isn’t really Pete’s bag and brings things back to the level of the average Joe. Divorce is just the kind of regular guy problem that you can envision a 30-ish Pete dealing with.
But NOOO…
Yeah a divorce would make total sense.
Peter Parker should never ever be happy and his life should almost always be a complete mess.
He should haven gotten a divorce and then gotten fired from his job. MJ would start hitting the town again and he’d have to see her on the tabloids everyday. Then he’d quit being Spider Man only to remember what Uncle Ben said and save some people in trouble.
Then his life would finally start getting back together and he’d be actually happy, then at that point you make something horrible happen out of the blue.
This is Spider Man 101 KIDS.
That’s exactly what my problem with the whole thing was too, by the last issue.
What was that “once in a millennium” nonsense? Peter Parker - and the entire appeal of the Spider-Man property - was that he was an average dude, who struggled with a job, money, girls, and all that.
Aren’t those the exact ideals that make Spider-Man Spider-Man and why everyone’s hanging off Bendis’ jock because he managed to completely distill those ideals in Ultimate Spider-Man?
Peter Parker’s supposed to have issues, that’s the entire fucking point of Spider-Man. He’s a loser like us but he never has the time or opportunity to deal with it because he’s got this great power…and you know…like…with great power comes great fucking responsibility!
There were all sorts of issues with the relationship they had already even explored before and during JMS’ run. MJ FAKED HER DEATH to get away from Peter. The Gwen Stacy angle was always there.
And they already did this stupid “What if Peter and MJ weren’t together?” angle in House of M. And it sucked, and nothing came out from it. Peter just got really angsty in the two issues of New Avengers that followed, and then nothing…and now we sit through it all again.
This Mephisto deus ex crap…it’s just so silly. I agree, if you’re going to break them off, just do it in a way that makes sense. Divorce, death, whatever.
Why would you ever chose your gray, old, 200 year-old, decrepit dying aunt over your supermodel wife that you completely defied all the odds in the universe of getting, that whole hitting the jackpot thing.
Just a very silly editorial decision. And every time they do one of these big reset/recon things, it completely cheapens all the other issues that came before it, and the ones that all these fans bought and enjoyed…and it’s like you’re just slapping them all the in face. Because it’s almost like what’s the point of following a title if you’re going to completely invalidate the entire property every so often by throwing all the plot and character developments out?
And all the big changes they made in Spider-Man during the JMS run - the whole tribal origin idea, Aunt May discovering Peter’s identity, the alleged final resolution with the Peter/MJ relationship, and a solid idea of where Spider-Man fit into the wackass mosaic of the Marvel Universe…all that’s now gone. Magically.
It’s just so silly and outlandish. The devil did it. Of course he did.
I agree with pretty much all of this post except for this particular chunk. I do dislike the cheap devices they use to retcon shit, but for different reasons.
I don’t think it cheapens stories when they’re wiped out of continuity. As many will accurately point out, it doesn’t cheapen anything to suddenly say that a certain chunk of stories never happened–because NONE of them actually happened. Whether a story officially “counts” as part of the ongoing continuity has little to do with the intrinsic quality of that particular story. Or, to put it another way, imaginary stories… aren’t they all?
My problem with such devices–and, as a matter of fact, with the insane overemphasis that gets placed on the dubious importance of continuity in the first place–is that they’re extremely disrespectful to the intelligence of the reader.
“We can’t just say we’re going to start things over at a certain point, or that we’re going to give this particular set of ASM issues their own little slice of continuity. No, no, no, our fans are too stupid to accept anything like that unless there’s an explanation for it in story. So we’re going to whip up this little contrivance. This ridiculously stupid, outrageously irrational contrivance that nobody with their brain turned on would EVER accept. No, our fans will swallow it because–get this–it’s in continuity! It occurs IN THE STORY. That way, it keeps things clean and gives our ongoing story–which has been going for 20 years without making ANY major changes to the status quo or resolved ANY major character arcs whatsoever–another reason to continue as it is.”
Of course, when they believe that fans won’t buy into a hard retcon or a restart, but they will buy a restart that occurs within the story as long as it jels with the continuity in some slapdash, icky way… they’re pretty much right.
But GOD DAMN, is it ever infantile.
I find it ironic that in interviews Joe Q says they can move forward with Spider-Man stories now that Peter and MJ are no longer married. He talks about moving forward, when he basically just hit the reverse switch, what with all the talk of taking Spidey “back to basics.” I love the Lee/Ditko and Lee/Romita Spidey era but if if I read a single story about aunt May in dire need of her medication I’m gonna get peeved. If JMS run on Spidey taught us anything, its that you do not depend on the same freaking material used decades ago. But hey, BND hasn’t, come out yet, so I’'ll reserve my judgment on that for later.
Speaking of BND, I was reading the latest issue of Marvel Spotlight and they talk about BND. There’s a lot of images from the upcoming Spidey stories in BND, including some where a female super hero with read hair appears to be helping Spidey. My money’s on the chick being MJ, but the idea of MJ fighting crime with Peter just sounds… retarded to me.
Since it looks like no one is gonna be getting ASM from here on out, I’ll take one for the team and pick them up and let you know how they are. Honestly, when some of the stuff I saw in the Marvel Spotlight issue of BND, I’m a bit excited. Of course even if the stories are good, that may not matter if in the long run, fans have decided to say “screw it.” Many feel that Joe Q just gave the marriage and the fans the middle finger so they might just return the favor but not buying ASM. I dunno, we’ll just have to wait and see, but I’ve decided not to write of ASM until I see what the new teams do from here.
I actually plan on getting it, so I’ll be more than happy to let people know what they’re missing.:wgrin:
Just re-read the Sansational Spider-Man annual. Now I’m even more pissed off at the situation, that was a million times better than any story where he’s single.
Personally, I think divorce is silly and outlandish, too. Call me old-fashioned or conservative or pro-family values or whatever, but there’s just no pretty way to write a story ending Spidey and MJ’s marriage.
The real problem with the fanboys is that they only care about stuff if it happens in the “real” (616) universe. I didn’t hear anyone complaining when Ultimate Spidey was dating Kitty Pryde. And I don’t hear anyone thanking Tom DeFalco for continuing to write Spider-Girl.
i might have missed this part but happens to all those stories when they were married…does it mean they all exist just with no mj involved or are they just gonna make every effort to never mention his married life ever again.
Tom DeFalco has written some really good Spidey stories. Been meaning to ask, how is Spider-Girl? I’ve never read a single issue.
I was actually rooting for Kitty over MJ and Ultimate Spider-Man. Some fans got mad when Gwen was killed “before Peter could date her.” Who said they were gonna date? Not everything in U Marvel follows 616 Marvel.
I’ve been wondering that myself. Joe clearly didn’t think this thing through. Many times are going to come up where “It’s magic. It doesn’t need to be explained” just isn’t going to work. Also, if Harry just got outta rehab, is he still married to Liz? Does Normie Osborn even exist?
He already clearly stated that everything happened, they were just not married. No ring, the wedding was stopped for whatever reason and now Peter and MJ have recently just split up at the start of BND.
So everything prior to BND occured, but they weren’t husband and wife.
They haven’t said why Harry’s back yet or how it fits because they’re going to be story elements.
Same with the reason for Peter and MJ’s break up.
spider-girl is good. its definetly fun and its obviously not an alien world…but clearly meant for a younger and diff gen.
Im just like the both of you i just wait and see what happens
There could have been many ways to create story that builds up to a divorce. As often the issues of marriage that comes about such as equality/submission concerns, finances, family of origin issues, family planning, parenting, in-laws, domestic violence, sexuality problems, infidelity, gender issues, health concerns, pornography, housework and chores, stress, cultural differences or whatever. It could have been done and it was very lazy on marvel’s part.
Me personally, I feel that JMS built up the marriage so well that a divorce would come off as unbelievable at this point, if it was going to be done JMS should of done it at the beginning of his run when they were apart for a while. I suppose they could of built towards it during the Back in Black event, that might of flown.
Myself I feel the next progression should of been MJ getting pregnant and/or them finding baby May. With regards to aging Spidey, well they could do 2 things. A) Leave the kid frozen at five years old forever like Franklin Richards or B) Pull some stunt where the kid ages too fast, like Cable, or like how when Franklin aged hyper fast as Scrapper for a time. But JQ doesn’t want Spidey to ever have kids.
In many ways, I feel killing MJ after they had a child would be more exceptable, as was the case in Earth X. Her purpose would have been filled, so to speak and her legacy would live through the child.
I still believe that death or a divorce in the end would be better than a retcon. If it was a retcon at face value, the JMS approach makes more sense, but I understand that it would of interupted BND and you can’t come up with stuff like that in the eleventh hour.
I dunno about Marvel’s desire to keep Spider-Man a young guy preventing him from a lot of different avenues. He’s been around for over 40 years, it’s kind of funny. It’s annoying when Bendis writes him as a noob on New Avengers when he has more experience than the current squad save for Dr. Strange and Wolverine, but I just overlook this for the most part since the rest of the comic is crafted very well IMHO.
And LOL there is no way that the first issue of BND doesn’t sell out. It’s getting a lot of free press on the net. Wacker’s right, the internet is not a good indicator of what is going to sell otherwise there’s a lot of writers and artists that would be out of work. After the first issue, who knows.
Myself I’ll be reading Spider-Girl instead lol! I stopped early on when J2 ended (Waaah I loved J2) so I’ve missed a lot apparently. Oh well gonna hit up the next con in April and see what I can find. I never was too crazy about the book hinging on Norman Osborn still being alive (This was early on when he was ressurected and I still think that was a crazy move) and Peter Parker having his leg blown off but ah well. I still have Stan Lee’s stip. 
Honestly I really don’t care if Marvel retcons a bunch of issues I read, Larsen hit it right on the head. There’s lots of stories they never reference anyway and no matter what they do, it doesn’t change the fact that you read or enjoyed an older story. My thing is I like characters moving forwards, not backwards. Spider-Man’s going back to a time when I started reading the book for all intents and purposes. Though I wouldn’t want to cheat others from the experience I had growing up. (Um, assuming kids still read comics… ) Or others who prefer that time period. Especially since he’ll never leave high school in Ultimate ever, there has to be more growth for the character in ASM by default.
Again, I’m curious if Marvel is going to stick to their guns on this one or not. So for now I won’t be purchasing BND, but I’m not against picking up TPBs later on, still I want to see if this is going to stick or not. If it turns our to be a House of M pocket universe type event that is undone in six months I could care less. Even if I’m a fan who is against this move I will have more respect for Marvel for sticking to their guns instead of turning things over like they always do. Unmasking, organic web shooters, all of his new powers, all things that were undone before they even started really. Except for the organic web shooters which were around for a time, and while I prefer mechanical ones, to me once you go organic you can’t go back to mechanical. Some changes I think should never be undone and that’s one of them. Not really a bid deal though either way. When he had mechanical ones he stopped running out of web fluid anyway (last time I can recall was during Marvel Knights Spider-Man and I don’t know when was the last time before that) so that is really the only difference.
Reggie - The superheroine you see in future BND issues is Mary Jane as Jackpot, she’s a hero now, or will be very soon. Slott premiered her in the FCBD issue.
Well, it’s not OFFICIALLY confirmed that MJ is Jackpot, but it’s kind of a no-brainer.