Southwest 3rd Strike thread: part 2

Regional Matchmaking Southwest
21

Contrary to belief of 3rd Strike greats such as Mopreme, I beg to differ.

“Lucky” parrying is not always a bad idea. If you don’t do any lucky parries and play completely technically the whole time, you are not going to always win. The consistency of this style of play is ironically its downfall. If you do try doing this shit in Austin, you are getting randomly parried into low forward xx SA3 alllll day by Ken, and losing. It works well for Mopreme, his game is very refined, and he has good patterns. Despite all this, he’ll still lose to Hsien if Hsien plays well.

What you have to consider with parrying is the risk-reward ratio. If I am fighting Remy or Akuma and I’m playing Makoto SAII, I have no shame in guessing parries on my side of the screen all day. If I get just one, I win the match. If I miss one, I eat a 20-25% combo at worst. If you have the life to spare, why not? Are you going to play “technically perfect” the whole time, only using parries on reaction and red parries (if that)? I’m not. I will try once or twice to parry a jump-in and hit them with a 100% combo. If I guess wrong, I get thrown. Oh well.

Obviously, this is a more extreme example, but random parries can sometimes be in your favor depending on the situation. It’s a judgement call. It keeps your opponent worried. If you land a random parry into combo, your opponent has to completely reevaluate his or her strategy for the remainder of the round. There are MANY attack patterns I can use against Mopreme that I CANNOT use against other Einstein’s players often or at all because of the high risk of getting parried.

Given this, I strongly believe that parries are good, even if it was just a lucky guess. It depends on many factors–lifebars, what round, how predictable opponent is, etc. Parries definitely shouldn’t be “ruled out” as always a bad thing to do in a match.

fubarduck

22

i should’ve entered yesterday but i wanted to get out of SG ASAP…but that didn’t happen since i played GGXX.:bluu: getting home at 2AM in the morning isn’t the best thing, especially when you have to be up at 6AM. :wasted:

23

This sounds great! Any chance we could set it up team style with 3 on a team? Ive got 3 or 4 guys from denton that would like to come to this.

24

this is something only a non-parrier would say. :wink:
let me just say this… those that don’t parry just can’t understand the satisfaction and challenge you get from parrying.

sure, if you want to win… it’s better to just play it safe ALL the time, sit there and do all of your characters basic high priority and safe moves over and over.
where’s the fun in that after a couple of minutes. i get tired of just doing low forwards and low strongs all day. after a while i want to start mixing it up and getting in there a duking it out.

and i want to parry something “IN YOUR FACE”. i love the challenge and the risk vs reward. that’s what makes 3s fun for me. the game would be dull to me without parries.

anyway, that’s why i play and that’s what i think about parrying. you say it’s only guessing and luck… not really. there’s alot of anticipation, mind games, and balls involved too.

in the end though, everyone plays their own way and for their own goals. so each to his own.

btw, if you win khang… there’s nothing pretty or exciting about it. cause you don’t parry!!! there’s no thrills or drama, just boring 3s engine tactics.

so compared to your type of win, then yes… parrying ibuki’s super is a cooler way to win. :wink:

peace

25

I want to learn how to parry effectively. I keep getting beat by parry baits and getting parried after two attacks (opponent gets hit, then parries the second hit). Cmutt, Javi, and Harvey are good at doing this. And this beats me everytime.

I know that there is alot of risks involved in parrying, but man, it adds alot to your game. After they start parrying some of my attacks, I need to change of my game asap. It makes me more cautious and lose my momentum.

Homework: Learn how to parry repeated attacks and find out makoto’s parry baits/recovery times on attacks (Doesn’t the 3s Bible have this?)

26

Yeah, well I guess you all know that you can just throw me to death since I don’t parry either :mad: .

27

I finally got the blood boiling yes?

Thanks for posting your views fubarduck. It’s about time someone outside of Houston posted their thoughts. I can see from your point of view, that your rewards outweight your risks. And from that, I’ll tell you that I’m not a gambling man. :lol: I need to play you Austin guys more.

Alot of the Houston players do not share my mentality. Alot of them still try to parry, so it’s not like I’m in an environment of total blockage. My goal here was to de-emphasize the need to parry “everything” on wakeup.

I like blocking on wakeup. Not because I’m riding Mopreme’s jock, but because I really like the idea. Bryan came up with the point that it would be a better idea to wake up super/dragon punch instead of waking up and guessing which way to parry. That really stuck with me.

Also, I personally felt an improvement in my gameplay when I blocked more, so I WILL have a bias against parrying on wakeup. And even though I claim to be pro-blocking, I have my fair share of messed up parry attempts. I don’t know how many times I try to parry Makoto’s axe kick, only to have it smack me in the back of the brain. I also still have a habit of parrying on wakeup.

Now, I don’t mind if you set up the parry (or parry bait). Probably the best example is Ken’s strong fierce chain. After the fierce, it looks like Ken is vulnerable, but he’s not. Ken players SHOULD know this, so after a blocked strong fierce chain they will anticipate a down parry. If you retaliate, you get low forward supered. If you just sit there and do nothing (like I do), people say you’re boring. :lol:

Tuan, just find a move that makes you look vulnerable, like the Ken example. Otherwise, I would have to say tap down/forward after all your pokes, I don’t know.

Cmutt, I understand the satisfaction of reading your opponent and rendering him useless through parries. You’ve done it to me many times before haven’t you? Haven’t you!!! Parrying opens up a lot of attack opportunities too. But again, I’m not good at it. Maybe one day, I’ll practice it and I’ll switch sides. :wink:

28

The thing is in Austin we have a lot of throw whores, so always blocking on wakeup isn’t always the best thing here. If somebody sees that you are consistantly blocking their attacks when you wake up, they are gonna start throwing. Plus it really depends on who you’re playing. Like if you’re playing alex, the jab version comes out fast a hurts a lot :confused:

I don’t like the idea of a super/shoryuken on wakeup, because a lot of guys here will bait you into it, you’ll miss and get super’ed in return. IMO it’s better to parry, and then you know whatever you are going to do is going to hit. So what if you guess wrong, that’s part of the game. Out-thinking your opponent. A wakeup parry on your part makes the other guy worry that he’s being too predictable, which is always a good thing.

29

About the kara-palming technique by pyrolee. I tried it and I keep getting the command throw. So basicly i press f+strong, then sweep the stick to down the back. and when it reached down+back, i hit short, then move the stick all the way back, then hit jab? I only did it one time aagainst Q i think, I did f+fp, f+mk, then palm, then kara-palm, it hitted Q by a hairline.

30

yeah, but you said parrying ibuki’s super isn’t cool… but it is though. it’s fun, and it’s exciting. winning with a nice parry is much more exciting than winning with something safe and normal.
now i admit that it’s not good fundamentally, but that’s not the point of this topic. parrying is risky, dangerous, and most of the times a bad habit to over-attempt… but damn it’s fun!

example: one of these days i’m going to parry harvey’s death trap with ken. when u’r too low on life to block, he EX fireballs and cancels into kick super in order to chip you to death. so far i’ve never parried all of it, but one of these days he’s gonna try it and i’m gonna get all of it and bam!!
even when it’s not a life or death situation… to have read a players mind and then parried something very difficult, and then turned it into a game winner…what’s more sweet than that? victory with flare and guts… man, too good.

maybe it wasn’t safe, and maybe it wasn’t smart… but damn it sure was nice. know what i mean.

peace

31

Random Questions:

  1. Two characters (A/B) in the air…A attacks…B parries…B attacks:

How soon can A parry? Is it an instant parry ability? If not, then I guess A can parry due how fast B’s attack is?

  1. If A jumps in on B…A attacks high…B parries…A lands…B goes for throw:

Can A tech throw it EVERYTIME? Or does one of them have an advantage?
BUT, what if A attacks deep on jump in? Does it change the properties? Depends?

  1. Ibuki’s air chip super: Is there a way to get out of it EVERYTIME? Or does it depend on a certain setup? :

Harvey mentioned before, that if done correctly, theres no way I can Jump, Get hit by knife, and knockdown. I would either get chipped or get hit by supers.

  1. Do Kara-Throws go through pokes?

If I’m doing cr.jabs…will a Chun be able to kara-throw right through? If so, is she going THROUGH the jabs, or just timed right so she moves forward while a the jab is being retracted?

  1. Will Jeaux ever beat Vig in a Master’s Challenge (Race to 10)?

Sorry for the noob questions. Just wanna make sure.

(How do you DO COOOOMMMMBOOOOOSSS?)

32

What’s up? I’ll try to answer your questions with my limited knowledge of 3S…i guess they’ll just be temporary until Mark comes in here and cleans up shop…i am interested in knowing how “wrong” my thinking about the game engine has been, so that wil be interesting too.

  1. A’s recovery after B parries his attack is the same as it would be on the ground…the only reason you see parry, parry in the air so often is because usually people do Fierce or Roundhouse to retaliate after a parry in the air…these are slow moves and allow for the opponent to parry you before the normal starts hitting…if people started using quicker moves (i.e. jabs) then this would never happen…Yun doesn’t really have to worry about this because of his air chain(he can be quick, and still get the damage of a Fierce in there)…Tuan, have you ever noticed how you never parry my jab that i throw out after i parry your air Roundhouse? cause it’s too quick… recovery after getting parried in the air may be different on the ground, but the properties are the same.

2)Man, from my experience, this situation depends on soo many variables, its tuff to answer. I think the question should not be, can A get the throw…it should be “can A tech a throw”…from my experience…it all depends on how “deep” the jump in is…also on how much recover B’s move has…if the parry is high then A will have recovered before they land, thus they can throw/break any throw…if the attack/parry is deep…A will still be in parried stun (thats my own word…haha, how does it sound?) and will be thrown/comboed for free…

  1. as far as I know (and that’s not much) if Ibuki does it right (i.e. meaty) theres nothing you can do to get around the chip other than parry…unless maybe the knifes are only a little meaty, and sort of chipping your toes…then I think maybe you could jump out of it and only get hit once…but that doesnt sound like it’d be that common…i think if she does it right…your stuck taking the chip…

4)of course! Throws go through normals in every SF since WW…i dont see any reason why 3S would be different…someone correct me if I’m wrong, but you can reverse throw meaties in 3S, right? Just like ST if I’m not mistaken…(If I am mistaken that would clear a lot up…but i think thats just been my crappy execution)

5)I think I’ll field this one Bob. I don’t even think Mopreme knows the answer to this 3S quesation. But, the correct answer is an emphatic YES. Friday, April 11th, 2003 (probably somewhere around 11:00 pm) Tuan Phan will lose his first Master Match to Joe Congdon, causing the world to begin rotating in an opposite direction…taking us back in time so I can start playing 3S when it originally came out…Ha!

that’s what I think…someone please correct me if I’m wrong…it’ll help me play better…please include frame/spacing data if you can wherever applicable…

ggpo, i’ll see you guys tomorrow

-j. (use)

33

In situation 2, I think if A gets his attack parried that would put him in recovery fall that is if he jumps up and do an attack and then fall down. So if B throws in time then A can’t tech it. I’m not a 100% on this but I will test it on DC when I get home.

34

That’s correct.

35

yup i tested it and indeed u cannot tech. BUt if for example u hit then late, like yun’s divekick to the knee when u land u can tech their throw.

36

it all depends on the spacing…

37

Alright, me and jeaux wanna know something:

Makoto / Yun … or anyone

  1. Yun is standing on the ground
  2. Makoto does a jumping roundhouse, goes over Yun, and lands
  3. Immediately, Yun tries to hit low
  4. Makoto blocks

The problem Joe has with it is:
“In every SF game, if you whiff a move in the air, I should be able to trip/hit you when you land”

Also:

  1. Yun is standing on the ground
  2. Makoto does a jumping roundhouse, goes over Yun, and lands
  3. Immediately, Yun does a standing jab
  4. Makoto parries

Same thing. Same properties?

Someone please explain. Its driving Joe crazy.

38

Originally posted by Mopreme:

You can jump and spin the joystick in circles, and when you land you can block. You only lose trip guard if you attack in the air and the opponent doesn’t parry your attack. This is the ONLY instance you lose trip gaurd.

Parries reset everything. This is why you can attack twice in the air. In one jump, you can jump up and attack a grounded opponent twice in mid air if they parry your move. If they parry and you recover from your move in time while still in the air you can do anything, including block when you land because everything gets reset.

Though, I don’t think this would explain Joe’s situation. Have you guys ever thought about PMing Mopreme? I’m sure he wouldn’t mind if you bothered him as long as you don’t say stuff like, “I want to have your children.” :lol:

He posted in the Houston forums back when the originally 3rd Strike thread was still up. Look in Houston: Texas’ Finest on page 39 for some other stuff.

Note: I might be at Stargate tonight. Maybe get some games in.

39

Well I tested it out and according to my test, after you do a move in the air you go into a recovery fall. And if there is enough time to recover land, then block/parry then you can do it. I tried it with makoto and yun and another time with ken and ryu.

WHen ken jump in with an early rh and whiffs it he can block/parry when he land. If however he does it late, then ryu gets free c.short jab short super.

And in both situation you can tech a throw. Weird. Must be some DC glitch so don’t take my words for it.

EDIT: Whta mopreme said made alot of sense. But then how can makoto attack, land, and block/parry if she lose the tripguard?

40

Tuan.

The download messed up so the file got cut off a little short. I tried downloading it again but it’s not there anymore. Any ideas?

YSB’s Hugo is too good to be Hugo.