Soul Society: Rose General Discussion!

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
621

Hey Rose community, SUP

I’m really convinced that I want to move Rose to my main, but since I am fairly new to SF4 I had some questions. I didnt want to clutter the forums with another topic so I figured this would be the place to ask, feel free to direct me elsewhere if I’m wrong.

U1 vs. U2: it is my understanding that U2 was nerfed and that U1 has become a more viable option. It seems to be working well against a lot of people online but thats still online, is it a better choice in most matchups in top-tier play? Also is it possible to combo into U1 outside of crumple stun or fadcing into it?

Slide Kick: I’m having a hard time grasping all the applications of this move. Its very nice to get in, but I can’t seem to get it to combo into cr.mp xx spiral. Is this supposed to be more of a frametrap? I seem to land it quite often when playing others but strictly in training i dont think ive ever seen it combo. Ive also been using the slide into backdash to bait some shit and try and stay more unpredictable, but is this a realistic tactic or am I just abusing online play? I cant tell haha :?

Right now my go to punisher is cr.mp into spiral or cr.hp into spiral if they are close enough. I can do the more challenging combos from challenge mode and stuff, but have a much harder time landing them compared to the easy and effective other choices. Most rose videos I watch (a lot of luffy who is incredible, and gootecks who is more entertaining) I usually just see the simple combo. Is there anytime that the harder combos are the better option? I feel as if in an intense game landing harder links would not be easy.

How am I supposed to get in? Right now I think I crutch too much on the slide in to get me going. Ill do an occasional jump in every now and then but it always feels super risky. I hate being predictable on my slides so I try to not use them too often, but this ends up in me usually turtling with footsies or zoning. I know Rose is built on a lot of that but I am feeling like I am missing out on some offensive opportunities at times. Is there anything else I can do to get shit rolling?

EX. soul spiral: How does this work on wake up and when should I use it? I still seem to get stuffed by a lot of shit when I use it.

sorry for some very noobish questions but any help would be greatly appreciated! thanks!

622

Welcome to Rose!!! It’s nice to see someone switching to Rose after AE instead of dropping her. I’m not the most technically versed player here, but I can give you my opinion. :>

Yes and no. At high level play, most of the time, you won’t be given a chance to land U1. That’s not to say that people don’t have brain farts, so it’s still very possible to get it in. The scare and zoning factor of it is enough to make it viable. Some characters just plain cannot get in on a Rose who’s on top of her fireball game and has U1 stocked. And the fact that she’s not a popular character doesn’t hurt either. :> One of Rose’s biggest weapons is that most players don’t know the matchup. U1 is not comboable outside of a crumble. You can’t even FADC into it, unless you FADC and hold it unto a level 2 focus attack, but it’s very difficult and not very viable. U2 is only really viable for characters who can stall/change the arc of their jumps, IMO, but you can get some decent corner pressure and chip out of it. Most good players will just block and wait for you to go for a throw, though.

As far as I know, slide doesn’t combo into anything, but it makes for a great frame trap. Backdashing off of basically anything is a great tactic for Rose, but don’t get too predictable. Slide kick is best used for pressure at max range and to punish an opponent that’s walking forward. Try not to slide to deep, as it’s punishable if it’s spaced badly.

Harder combos are definitely viable if you are positive you can land them and are prepared to get rid of some meter, but if you can’t, just cr.hp xx spiral or cr.hp xx hp reflect, soul throw if you have them in the corner.

Rose isn’t really supposed to “get in” on most characters. The only characters I can think of that Rose needs to walk to them are Sagat and Dhalsim. She can apply pressure, but most of the time you’re going to just want to play a footsies or zoning game. If you really feel the need to get in, there’s slide, max range hk spiral, a well timed jump (hp for non-crossups, mk for crossups), soul spark fadc, ultra 2, and just walking forward. That’s just in general, not for Sagat/Dhalsim specifically.

It’s not completely invincible, and it is throwable. You really need to watch when you throw it out. If your opponent is going for the same obvious frame traps/tick throws or really long frame trap strings, I’d throw it out there to keep them honest, but it’s a really gimpy “reversal”. You can also throw it out after a normal spiral for a very unsafe frame trap that will usually catch the opponent off guard. Just don’t get too crazy with it.

623

Just came to say i will be entering the break tournament today representing rose again. Hopefully this time i’ll be able to get into the top 3.

624

thanks for the reply trike, really helpful.

im working on improving but some matchups seem really difficult. Sim being the first that comes to mind haha, I just cant get in on him. Really lame sagats make me want to pull my hair out too.

Im sure itll all come with some practice and familiarity though, Im really digging rose overall.

625

Yeah, one of the best Dhalsim players in America arranges the fight night that I go to, and that matchup is no joke. Against good Dhalsims you need to be REALLY patient and wait for an opening, then try and get some pressure in and hope he doesn’t push you back out. Sagat is easier to get in on, but he has an uppercut. You can bully him pretty badly if you can get him in the corner and bait out his uppercuts or just poke the living shit out of him. It just comes down to reading his tiger shot patterns and being smart with reflecting/throwing your own/sliding underneath high shots.

626

With sim, you need to really abuse s.MK for those low limbs, s.MP for other limbs at the tip of their max range and work your way in with Focus dashes. Play patient and don’t be in a rush to get in if you’re getting smacked with limbs.

627

thanks for the help guys

are there any videos you all can recommend I watch? I got bodied by a sakura and makoto tonight but I think its just because I played sloppy. If I space my slides correctly and go for the cr.mp spiral frame trap after should they be able to stuff me? It got me killed a ton tonight :confused:

628

Just follow some high BP Rose players. If you’re on XBL, I’m following filipinoman and tiaflatte (Jiban) for my Rose replays. You can also check the video thread.

Slide->cr.mp can be a frame trap, but it’s not something to rely on. You need to space it correctly or have it be a meaty and timed correctly for it to work really good. It’s moreso used to fool people into thinking that it’s super unsafe, when it actually has quite nice recovery, thus baiting out their slow combo starters/punishes. It’s not going to blow up any Balrog jab mashes. You can also s.mk after a slide to counter-hit low kicks or even throw if you’re close enough.

Sakura and Makoto are both rush-down characters. You need to keep them out and make them play the footsies game with you, which they both lose. I wouldn’t get too cheeky with them. If they knock you down/put you in the corner, you’re in trouble.

629

From what I’ve played as Rose so far, spacing slides is indeed important. Space it right, and you’re going to beat a lot of things and make life difficult for quite a few characters. Space it wrong, and you eat punishes.

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Going through the last few pages and the Rose/Chun comparisons that were a big help. I’d argue Chun has some nice/fancy punishes actually… perhaps some aren’t the easiest in the world, but during my time as a main and watching other players, I’d say they’re pretty satisfying. e.g.

upkicks to either Ultra
c.hp -> hk legs -> mk legs ->sweep… or the Swedish Firecracker loop if you’re really good at comboing 1-hit c.hp and legs
reversal super (mk version) in general
U1 blow through
air-to-air stomps->possibly to other stuff.

I will concede that hp reflect to ST is pretty nice though. I do like Shamwow a lot, and hope to be more consistent with it. Getting more comfortable with this whole sliding/poking/frame trapping thing too. Now if only my ST reads actually worked and connected… :rofl:

630

Did any Rose players make it out of pools at EVO?!

631

Just came home from a tournament. Both of my losses were to Bison players. I must break the fingers of every Bison player ever. This is my mission. Anyone who plays Bison is a horrible, horrible person. :frowning:

632

So my new midscreen punish BnB has been cr.HP, lp fireball, FADC, cr.lp, cr.lk, cr.mp, drill. Does around 300 damage. Not sure if it’s better to keep the 2 bars for super or not.

633

Sakura dominates in the footsie war. Though you still want her mid/far range.

If you already have the super meter full, you’re better off just doing cr.HP>Drill>Super instead of wasting meter for no damage and a loss of 2 bars.

634

I disagree. At least against Rose. Sakura can’t do much damage from a footsies range unless you’re really good at confirming cr.mk into Shououken. She won’t even win a priority fight with Rose and her fireball is even worse than Rose’s. She has to knock Rose down to beat her, IMO.

635

Im having a problem keeping a lot of characters out. I seem to do pretty good at a range but it seems as soon as i throw a fireball or an offtimed poke that half the cast is in on me. Against characters like bison, yun, and sakura I just find myself in a corner the whole time and have a real hard time getting out. It seems hard to find a time to use ex spiral to get out and i just end up getting in mixup situations that are bad for rose to be in. Is this just a problem for rose? How can I keep people out in footsie range better? I might upload some videos if one of you doesnt mind critiquing me.

636

Yes, I made it out of pools in Evo in the loser’s side after losing narrowly to buktooth in my first match. I don’t know if there is any footage of me playing. I received a bye and won two more after making it out of pools before losing to an Akuma player, again, making down to the final round match point.

637

She can just annoy you with s.roundhouse if she wanted to. confirming off of cr.mk isn’t hard if you’re buffering or actually whiff punishing when Rose players push a button. Can’t jump with cr.fierce there. Also pretty hard to anti air Sakura with her j.fierce. The match isn’t really hard but it is annoying if the Sakura player actually knows how to whiff punish and hit confirm.

A lot of things I see people doing with Rose is backing themselves up in the corner rather than trying to hold their ground with normals and not predictable slides. Once you’re in the corner, you can’t just rely on ex spiral (which people really should stop relying on so much) mainly cause you can be thrown out of it, option selected to death, or literally just baited. When you’re in the corner, you’re better off blocking and reading the next move. Taking a throw is better than taking a combo.

638

As long as Rose is able to keep Sakura out so she can’t pressure, Rose is fine. I’d say the most annoying part about the match-up, is that Rose’s cr. fierce gets pretty much stuffed by Sakura’s j. fierce. You would have to do ST as an anti-air (EX ST works great, not too certain about her regular ST). Once Sakura gets in however, it can be a nightmare for Rose. It’s mix-up central, and you’re forced to guess and watch for resets.

I definitely agree with the part about giving up space too quickly. You want to make your opponent fight for space, and lose as much life as possible in the process (especially against grapplers). As far as corner pressure goes, it is tempting to use EX Spiral as a reversal. However, the odds are stacked against you. If your opponent intentionally mistimes a meaty, you’re going to eat a full punish once blocked. You can even get hit out of it if your opponent hits you before the active frames (the last 2 start-up frames). As Shin Oni said, you’re better off just blocking the mix-up, and reacting accordingly. Another thing that I want to point out: If you’re in the corner, don’t be tempted to jump so quickly. Your opponent can easily anti-air you, and you’re in the exact same spot as you are before. See what your opponent is doing, and fight your way out. A couple of months ago, I used to have problems blocking. Over time, it just became second nature, and it’s definitely made me better as a player now. Good defense is imperative to winning matches; look at how Spark won with his Hakumen in BB:CS 2. Amazing defense got him very far.

639

yun yun gg.

640

Hey there fellow Rose players. I’ve been playing Rose since Vanilla, and go to a fair amount of local tournaments(East Coast Throwdown 3 being my first major). I’ve been an unflinching Rose rep for as long as I’ve been playing competitively, but right now I feel like any improvements that I make are very slight. I have a general grasp on how to play her, and try to play to her advantages. After getting her main BnB down and getting a good grip on the spacing for her normals, I’m not really sure what else to work on. I’d say that playing patiently is the most difficult thing for me, playing online a lot gives a kind of “Get the match over as soon as possible” feel. Do you guys have any tips that I could kinda work into my play? I know I’m being very general but I couldn’t describe it easily without playing against someone.