So who is better: Ryu or Ken

Classic Fighting Games Super Street Fighter II Turbo
21

The tc’s question is somewhat ambiguous.

If you’re “playing to win” then of course N.Ryu is your best choice for the obvious reasons. I played N.Ryu for 2 years and he is probably the most balanced character.
I interpreted the tc’s question to mean, who is better for me (the tc). I said N.Ken b/c after playing N.Ryu for so long I decided to try other characters, and found him to be much more effective. N.Ken is very difficult to master. He has many weaknesses that can be overcome if you have the patience and skills necessary to master him. I’ve been using him for the last 16 mos. and my “game” has dramatically increased. N.Ken is a better choice for me b/c I like his style, the skill involved to win the matches, and the requirement for fast reflexes. I’m not sure what exactly the tc meant by his question; but, I wanted to be sure to give him a good representation of what N.Ken is all about.

Not trying to flame here at all.

22

ShinVega: 100% agreed in that regard.

I firmly beleive N.Ryu is better. But I, personally, prefer playing N.Ken by far. I do way better using N.Ken than I do N.Ryu. So N.Ken is definitely better for me. I mentioned that Ryu’s base game is better and N.Ken relies more on tricks and guessing games. I LIKE tricks and guessing games. :slight_smile: I hate base games, which is why I’ve sucked with Ryu my whole life.

So yeah, I completely agree with you. N.Ryu is better in the “Playing to Win” sense. That’s how I interpreted Eduardo24’s question. But if you asked me for a recommendation on who “you” should use, I would never advise Ryu over Ken. It would really depend on your playing style and what you are more comfortable with.

23

There are some technical hurdles that many would-be N.Ken players (including me, heh - can’t fucking topspin) aren’t willing/able to jump:

Basic

  • avoiding accidental crazy kicks

It kind of bums me out when people (and there have been many) say that they use O.Ken for this reason. We’re talking, what, half an hour of practice?

  • cold walk up jab DPs

Not Ken specific but still a key play for him.

Intermediate

  • topspin kick

Top spin (the low altitude air hk) -> super can be used in lieu of a super fireball vs. Ryu, Dhalsim, Sagat. Kind-of. Aniken argues that Ryu vs. Ken is 5-5 (!?) partly because of this. Charge the super by dp’ing through fbs?

Advanced

  • short short hitconfirm super

This isn’t incredibly difficult, I guess, but the key thing is that when playing a real match you need to bust this out on your first try. It’s not like short short -> nothing -> wait lemme have another go.

24

cr.mp -> link super is also a great hitconfirm, as well as a terrific throw set up if they block.

25

That is where I hit the wall… LOL:rofl:

26

Funny. Out of all three of those you listed, Short Short Super is by far the thing that I have the most confidence in in a real match. :rofl: And accidental Crazy Kicks is one of the areas I need most help in. God I hate that code.

27

Just to be sure but I understand that the both of you (jchensor, and fatboy) have problems with acc. “crazy” kicks? If so the best way to prevent an accidental crazyK is to practice the motion for the three special Kicks and make sure you don’t tap any K when using motions similar for P related specials. I’m sure you’ve thought of that; but give it a try. Learning how to use the “Crazy” kicks improved my game. “Crazy” kicks are one of the bases for combos, mix-up, and tricks. Useing the ax Kick is also very useful if you have quick eyes (for counters), and mix ups. Outside crescent is the fastest, Inside being second, and roundhouse being third. Roundhouse knocks down and has a great hitbox (counters almost all jump ins if timed correctly). Without using the funky kicks Ken is a much diff. character IMO. Still excellent, but not using 100% of potential.
I hope this helps.

28

Nah, it’s not that at all. It happens when I try to walk up and Sweep or walk up and go into Crouch Short, Crouch Short, Super. For the second one, especially, I always like to be in defensive crouch when I hit the first short (muscle memory and comfort). So while walking forward, you swing the controller from Towards down to Defensive Crouch, thus passing the stupid code for the Crazy Kick (Forward to Down) and instead of Crouch Short, you get the Crazy Kick. Happens with Sweeps, too, when you are just slightly careless and go from Towards to Down instead of Down/Foward. Capcom even knew the code sucks because it’s been gone ever since ST, and never returned.

But yes, the Crazy Kicks are good moves. Though they don’t really do much for Ken in the long run, having them around occsaionally is good. I mainly use the Fireball + Kick on Hit Confirmed Crouch Short, Crouch Short, Fireball + Kick (Kara Canceled) if I don’t have a super. The overhead kicks are good against Zangief (can hit him from ranges where he can’t SPD you). And the Yoga Flame + Kick move is great for novelty “try-this-only-one-time” tricks that if you pull off, you can get audiences to go “Oooooooohhh!” against other Shotos, but they aren’t practical in any way, shape, or form.

29

Yeah that it my principal problem. :sweat:

Nothing is worse than seeing an opening to sweep an opponent during a game of “footsies,” only to have the funky kick come out and whiff. THEN, be swept back during your funky kick whiff…:annoy:

I know every Ken player can relate to this at some point in thier past… :bluu:

30

I’ve been picking ST lately and ken is on my list to learn. Knee bash setups are definetly cheap.

Those crazy kicks are a problem, especially the inward crescent kick? f, df, d, k. When i’m walking around in my zone I tend to do that input for a c.short. It sucks that I gotta readjust my zoning with neutral inputs.

Just some questions though, I was watching daigo vs aniken(?) and I saw aniken do c.lk, s.lk, lp shoryu. I was trying to see if you can cancel s.lk and you can’t. So I thought it was a link and I couldn’t even get it to link.

when you guys mean n.ken, which version is that? I thought it literally meant normal mode in the AE version but theres no knee bash for that version.

does mashing the knee bash throw mess up the timing on the jump in part for
another mixup? how much life can I consistently expect from a knee bash while my opponent is mashing back to get out?

which overhead kick setup is the best to use? I like the hcf+k, hold overhead because the hcf+k knocks down on hit.

is there a practical use for the f, df, d +k?

after a knee bash, is jumping away from ken a common way for opponents to get away from the throw trap? will a fp dp always get them on the way back from the right range?

so even though ken has these funky kicks, outside of combos and maybe hcf+k as AA, theres no practical use for them? so that means when i’m zoning, I should be trying to play a ghetto ryu while trying to work my throw setups w\o risking too much?

lastly, I read about kara fireball but nothing describing how to do it and very little about its properties other than it has better recovery time I think. Also, I could of sworn I saw aniken do a kara c.rh for extra sweep range. Help?

st rocks. This game will never die!!!

31

Well thats true, I think what you guys are missing is that ryu has a much better and easier super.

32

N stands for new. Old (in ssf2t, the ones without a super bar) Ken and Sagat are more popular than new in the US so you have to be explicit.

I’m pretty sure you’re doing something wrong if they get a chance to jump.

Don’t use that move as anti air. If you want an alternative to dragon punch, crouch rh, climbing rh – try far standing fierce. In order to un-ghetto your Ken you have to gamble with jab dps more. If you can hit your opponent with a walk up DP right as they try to low kick you, maybe next time they’ll hesitate as you’re walking in.

IIRC when ken karas a short into a fierce fireball:
2short36+fierce
The fireball will travel quickly like a fierce but recover like a jab. This trick is a lot more important with Akuma’s red fbs. Difference is pretty subtle with Ken.

No clue. You probably already know that Ken and Ryu (and many characters) are “thinner” when they’re standing up than when they’re crouching? So, like, in that Aniken vs. Daigo series you often see them try to bait sweeps simply by standing up just out of range. That makes the counter sweeps look extra long, maybe?

Thanks for setting us straight!

33

thanks for the help. I actually tried playing ken the other day and I got raped. Its probably going to take more than a day and a few hours of practice to actually learn how to play off that knee bash throw.

a random q, is it impossible to xup rog while he’s standing? his block animation forces him to sway back and he then moves out of the range for xups. So if they attempt to block the xup, he’ll sway away from it. Should I just try to hit him in the front and not worry about those xups?

lastly, i’ve been reading up on the yoga book hyper i’m really digging those hit box breakdowns. Where a character moves hit box actually is and where they are vulnerable. Anyways, I was wondering if it was possible to actually do the same thing with mvc2 and get a break down of the frames like that.

I think I read an nki post saying that the cps1 had a dipswitch setup where you can view hitboxes and the people who made the yoga book hyper were given a “dev kit” from capcom so that they could view the hitboxes. Would mvc2 even be able to have that sort of feature to it? i’m hoping viewing hitboxes can be done in all capcom fighters. Marvel has funny awkward hitboxes that need to be explored as deep as ST has.

after reading about st after a few days, this game is deep. Definetly worth the time to learn to play.

34

It’s tough. Very tough. Not worth trying a lot tough. Instead, use the Air Hurricane Kick. Jump so you’ll land on top of him and do an Air Hurricane Kick when you start coming down. That’ll propel you ever so slightly and “cross-up” with the Air Hurricane Kick. You won’t be close enough for Combos or easy Throws as with a normal Cross-up, but you do set up the walk-up DP or Throw mind games. You have enough Frame Advantage after landing that you can take a step or two and make Balrog nervous. Mix between DPs, Throws, and occassional Sweeps to keep Blarog guessing from this point.

But honestly, I personally believe Balrog is a tough match for Ken. In fact, strangely enough, he’s the character I fear most with Ken. I have a mental block against that Boxer, 'cause he rapes all of my favorite characters. :slight_smile:

35

i’ll try that out. Air tatsu sounds like a good idea.

36

High level Ryu (Daigo) v. Ken (Aniken) http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=aniken+daigo&search=Search
Ryu pretty much owns Ken heads up.

37

Aniken came back big time in that series. I don’t think all of the vids wound up on youtube. End result Aniken 9, Daigo 11, I think.

38

How exactly is this done? I know how to kara the super, cSK cSK qcf qcf SK+JP(making sure the short is hit clightly before the jab). So when I read this I assumed it was probably the same thing except qcf SK+FK. But I haven’t gotten it to work once. Is that how it’s done? And should it be easy to pull off consistantly? If Ken has a good non-super combo off of rapid crouch shorts, that would be very very good!

39

You have it just about right. Crouch Short, Crouch Short, Fireball + Short + Forward. Just make sure of a few things: the three presses of Short are in a rhythm (in other words, the delay between shorts should be consistent) and that you press Short VERY briefly before hitting Forward. I mean, I’m assuming you know all of this, since you can get Short, Short, Super.

I’m not sure what else to suggest. Do note, however, that this only works on standing opponents, so the only time I use it is after cross-ups, where there is a migh higher chance of hitting people while standing. Also, it’s VERY easy to do the Fireball + Kick too late so that it doesn’t combo. The timing is tricky, and to be honest, the combo is really not all that practical. :slight_smile: But you can hit confirm it on standing opponents, so it does have its uses.

40

if you look for my post in the vids section, you’ll find a ‘mega upload’ link to a zip file with all the daigo v. anti ken matches FYI! :tup:

That is if anyone is interested… :wink: