Looks like most of you just need to stop playing this game, seriously.
Am I the only person who likes the fact that Brawl isn’t about touch of death combos and 50-60% damage off a single mistake? The game’s all about flow and control and not about losing the match because you made one boneheaded risky move and it’s like half it’s player base seems to think that the relative lack of chain grabs and shuffle combos turn it into some kind of no-skill retardationfest when I’d argue it the other way around- purely execution barriers into performing well in a game can be picked up by a chimpanzee with a learning disability. And the more effective/damaging the combos, the more the execution barrier matters then any others- when a game is as much you vs controls as you vs the other player, that’s about the point I lose interest in playing the game (See- later-on MvC2, extremely late-era SSBM. For an extreme example, I’d argue that X-Men vs SF is a game that’s 95% about the execution barrier)
Seriously, screwing up still hurts you a lot- no game punishes you for letting your opponent control space like Brawl, and one mistake still leads to damage + momentum disadvantage + loss of position. Control the space, control the momentum, and the damage doesn’t matter, you’ll still kill that fool dead. Except instead of some combo that’ll kill them the moment you land it, you have to read your opponent, strip their options, bait their reactions, and leave them with nowhere to go except oblivion.
No tripping is ok, but I wouldn’t hack the game to get it in, since it’s barely an issue 99% of the time it occurs and the 1% is mostly dumb because you were trying something dumb to begin with, like rushing open-arms towards a F-smash charging Ike. Increasing Hit Stun would turn Shiek into some kind of absurd goddess, and I don’t want to think what some of the Spacies would end up looking like, forget Meta Knight.
I concur, LordLocke.
The problem isn’t that it lacks big combos, it’s that so damn many moves are UNSAFE ON HIT. That’s right, get punished for hitting. And I dare say most moves are at least frame disadvantage on hit. That’s not a good state for any game. And no, I don’t just want Melee. Melee 2.0? Sure. What’s wrong with that? Brawl made many aspects worse. Also, about Snake and MK. We have three options. 1: Deal with it. 2: Ban the fuckers. 3: As long as we’re hacking the goddamn game, change them. And who says more hit stun would make them more broken, but not buff everyone up comparably? Anyway, I should end my rant.
Edit: LordLocke, you’re wrong. You lose momentum for hitting. You might gain a spacing advantage, but if your moves are frame disadvantage on hit, you’ve basically reset the guessing, and given your opponent a slight edge on the next guess. That’s why the game feels like “trading blows”. Each hit is so inconsequential. A game where you can’t build momentum is one I’m not interested in playing. I’d rather have touch of death combos than losing momentum when I get in a hit.
You don’t build momentum in this game? Wow I must be playing it all wrong!
There’s only one thing that I want, and that’s the ability to shield low.
No, your opponents are. Well, ok, that might not be true. Some moves do give frame advantage on hit. Hmm, maybe if knockdowns were more prominent? I know some moves “trip on hit”. Maybe if a lot more moves did that… Anyway, my basic stance is unchanged. most moves need more hit stun.
Which moves are these?
There are moves in several games that are unsafe on hit. And all three of the options you’ve given me are kind of ridiculous if you ask me.
1: “Deal with it” - Actually, I don’t. It’s a hack, so it’s not part of the original game, therefore I don’t have to deal with anything.
2: “Ban them” - Ban two legitimate characters all because somebody wanted Melee, again?
3: “It’d buff everyone up comparably” - Not a chance. And if it did, that’d mean that the whole cast would have a series of broken as hell infinites because of more hitstun. Fun game.
Tilt the stick down while shielding and VOILA.
If you meant adding a high-mid-low dynamic like in other games, well…I don’t know how I’d feel about that…
The first hits of A-strings. And some jump attacks with no landing recovery. Maybe some others.
True, many games have moves that are unsafe on hit. They’re called bad moves. But no game has as many unsafe moves as Brawl. When 90% of moves have frame disadvantage on hit, it’s called a bad game. Now, leaving alone the fact that no one has really shown that MK and Snake would be godly with more hit stun, I’d rather play with -2 characters than with low hit stun. Now, you’re saying everyone might have infinites. Well, this could be true, but only if you increase it WAY too much. Even Melee only had a couple infinites. How about this: We see how much hit stun we can add before an infinite crops up? And the only reason I’m really concerned about them is stalling.
Edit: And to all who would say “It’s a new game, treat it as such”, sure, go play Brawl. I find it deficient. We’ll see whose game is better, your Brawl or my Custom Brawl.
Feel free to hack the game to your hearts will, as long as this doesn’t touch tournament standards I don’t care.
I’m speechless at the idea that some of you would actually WANT to hack a game and then play it competitively. Haven’t you done enough by turning off 80% of the game without real tournament testing?
that’s some archaic thinking. in case you didn’t know arcades are dead and in this new age of video gaming the ability to games to your liking is expected these days. don’t hold onto your old arcade views but embrace the model PC gamers have where they play whatever they want. if someone can make a mod or tweak some settings and popularize their mods enough that it’s the preferred way to play or there’s a large enough community then they should play it competitively if they so choose to. it would take a great effort for someone to have enough modded wiis around to have a major tourny but if a group were to organize such a tourny they deserve a pat on their back for their efforts.
Oh, there’s nothing wrong with modding games at all. What is getting me is that people are considering mods for a competitive standard at all (and xSamuraix, to be clear, I am not talking about you when I say this :P) before even giving the regular gameplay a chance. That’s pretty messed up.
Besides, it’s more likely that any mods done via this method are going to result in something so broken it will be neither competitive nor fun :P.
I think you are both confused about my position, and the difference between a ‘mod’ and a ‘hack’.
If you knew me at all, you’d know that I’d be the first to point out how archaic ‘arcade standard’ is, and when they try to ban the console only characters in Sf4, and you see me crusading against that, you should understand.
To me, competitive gaming isnt about turning off (or hacking out) what we do not enjoy. Its about playing to win against another player using all the rules, features, and bullshit a game has to offer. I wouldnt turn O.Sagat off because he is annoying and boring, and I wouldnt turn tripping off because i get hit once in a while and it isnt my fault.
:u: to me the only difference is one’s legal the other isn’t. if there was a hit stun slider or a tripping toggle in the option menu it would fall under a mod.
but there is not…
Hit Stun slider. This sort of thinking is another thing I do not understand and I am surprised actually that I didn’t bring this up sooner.
If you know how fighting games work in the very least, you would know that hit stun is not normally some magical global value you can turn up or turn down. Every individual attack has its own hitstun value assigned to it. It is merely a property of attacks, just like hitshaking and knockback. I doubt it is within a RAM editor’s capabilities to assign proper hitstun to different attacks within a reasonable limitation. So what it will do, is make everything have the same hitstun, which is plainly a recipe for disaster.
so who cares? if i bought a disc I’ll do whatever the hell I damn well please and if nintendo has a problem with that they can go fuck themselves. People should play what they want. If someone can make a hack and popularize it such that it receives a large enough community that people are interested in playing it in tounies and do it all without drawing the attention of nintendo’s legal department then they should do it.