SO MANY scrub players

SF2 has always rewarded cheap, low risk techniques. Denying it is just as ridiculous as complaining about it.

People lose to my Blanka all the time and it’s not because I’m a skilled player. Most characters simply can’t do much of anything against a tick bite even if they know it’s coming.

Part of the appeal of SF2 is that I can use cheap moves to beat better players without having to put in as much effort as them. If they don’t resort to the kind of garbage that I use, then they will probably lose.

In the end, I don’t have the free time or the inclination to learn a game that actually rewards skillful play like Virtua Fighter.

I’m not disparaging SF2 or trying to be clever. This is just the reality of it.

I understand what most of you are saying about the throwing and stuff, and some of you are seriously plain rude, I’m just trying to make a point here, and some of you answered intelligently, I thank you guys for that.

For the people who think I’m scrub, then face me. Only PS3 though =(

ID: Reviticus

Unlike Virtual Fighter or Tekken, HD remix doesn’t have any character who can stagger a blocking opponent or hit an opponent with an unblockable move(Kazuya’s 1 turn screw uppa, or whatever its called) OR a bunch of “high”, “mid”, “low” attacks. So, what do you do against an opponent who blocks the majority of your stuff, you throw.

Does that mean gief is not allowed to throw…

LOL, that’s what I was just thinking. Gief needs tick throw SPDs/mixups to win his matches.

I guess this has degenerated into a discussion about scrubs, but I wanted to clarify my original point.

I have no problem with losing to any strategy. I believe that the better player is the player who wins, and that the best game is when both players use every tool they have to try to achieve that victory. If that means relying on two viable moves out of a dozen, or crouching in the corner for 30 seconds, then that is all the better.

My original mini rant was about the fact that the average online skill level is so low that I am rarely forced to do exactly that. It is not stimulating.

Take for example, I am playing Guile. I am crouched mid screen and my opponent is in corner crouching. We have been doing so for at least 1 1/2 seconds. Then my opponent just empty jumps at me and gets flashkicked for a KO. Where is the fun in that? It’s like I am sitting there ready for anything, thinking up a strategy when my opponent just decides they’ll hit the lose button by jumping forward.

Didnt you read all those quotes from playing to win by David Sirlin ?
You’re the definition of the scrub, not just one…

First you come here, and you say almost every player is a scrub, then you complain about so-called cheap stuff like throws.
Seriously, either you just play for fun or you play seriously, intending to win.
If you’re playing to win, then there’s just no reason to try to be fair…
If you’re fighting someone in real life, will you save your life ? Or not send them sand in the eyes because it’s cheap and you have your honor ?
I’d definitely do anything to save my life, and i’ll do anything in SSF2THD to win the match…cause that’s the purpose of the game. If you’re not trying to win, what’s the point ? Try another type of games…

LoL nice

All I’m trying say here is that there is a higher level of play… Street fighter has been out forever now, and these kinds of games that are played at a higher level shape the game into something else. A great example would be Super Smash brothers Melee, I remember playing that game at first thinking I mastered it. Then I randomly stumbled upon a video online showing a SSBB tournament. I was fricken AMAZED when I saw that, people utilizing wave dashing, edge defense and all this craziness. I thought to myself, wow… this game is completely something different when played at a higher level, that makes it SO much more fun to watch, and apparently, so much more fun to play.

Now anyone watch SSF2T combo videos? Yes a lot of those aren’t doable in a real match, but someone I faced did something very very similar to the things I saw on that… and I was like wow SSF2T played at this level, that’s insane…

So if this is what Street Figher is all about just poking turtling, throwing all day, then I’m sorry, you guys are right… I didn’t know that this was the way to play this game. It’s just after all these years, I thought a game like this would’ve evolved into something different.

Whenever my life is on the line in real life, I just spam fireballs.

Its called counter throwing, try it out sometime.

Counter throwing? Do explain! Or do you mean teching?

Those combo videos you see are just for show, most of the time they’re impratical. Why struggle in performing a 15 hit combo when a 3 hit combo is sufficient, efficient, and easier to perform?

If you ever watched tournie videos of ST from evo, you’ll see that hardly ever is there a “big” KO combo. It’s all about mixups, throws, pokes, “intercepting” your opponent, and exploiting an opponent’s weakness. Like others have said, play to win by any means necessary.

The only time you’ll ever see huge combos from original ST are from Fei Long, rekka kicks + cl. Fierce + rekka ken combos rox.

Besides, the combos that you’ve seen all start from either a little poke or crossup. So, what do you do when all those fancy crossups and combos are getting 100% blocked, you throw.

Not all of it is for show, you can actually pull off some of those in a real match, I mentioned in the post you quoted that I faced someone before who did something SIMILAR to things you’d see in those kinds of videos, but mostly 3 and 4 hit combos… maybe once or twice a 5 hit…

I can do the basic 3 hit combos, but I do it to win, not to show off… Different fighting strategy I guess…

Not quite, teching (throw soften) reduces the damage, a counter throw will end up with you throwing your opponent when they try to repeatedly throw you.

In Classic ST there were nasty, nasty throw loops, they have all been nerfed in HDR.

Also, you can reversal out of throw attempts.

Antolalism (jesus, I know I didnt spell that one right.) and Gishdeath are both very skilled at tick throwing (they are both good at a variety of other tactics as well, but I am going to use them in my example quite simply because they are very skilled at said tactic)

Now, for example, Kens knee bash, repeated with a quick jump in jab x knee bash, its a nasty loop, but if you know its coming, you can take the hit and counter throw, or use a reversal move, in this example, I saw he (Antolalism) was coming in for the loop, I quickly bust out my super with Sagat (because I was then invincible for the jumping jab), and pow, massive damage in the face. (He still raped me in that match, he is a beast, but it is a recent example in my mind of how to get out of throw loops)

Also, some characters have very fast throws, like Vega, and can counter throw certain tick setups after blocking.

Gish likes to bite my face alot, and I have countless times counter thrown his bite with Sagat, done it with Guile too, same for Honda. (Not to say my face doesnt get raped all the time, it does, but it works against him as well, its a counterable tactic)

Throws are a *vital weapon *in HDR/ST, several characters would be badly weakened if they did not have some throw antics. All they are is a **tool **in your arsenal, one more option too add to your spacing and mind games.

An example:

Guile, pushes an opponent back into a corner, from here he has some brutal mix up options, Boom xx overhead, Boom xx cr.fwd, boom xx back.rnd, boom xx walk in throw, jump in.shrt xx throw, meaty xx FK, etc.

It just boils down to** mind games**, if you anticipate a throw set up, know what your options are, and respond accordingly, it takes practice, its not always super easy or anything like that, but it works.

Its all about finding your characters proper spacing, and trying to control it, instead of just reacting, you** CAN **force a turtle out (usually with throws/tick setups!), you CAN punish a tick throw, and you CAN punish predictable, repeated moves, it takes skill and timing to unleash a constant barrage of attacks, every pattern has a response, idenitfy it, learn the counter, and excecute it.

Sure, there are some bad matchups/counter picks, and Akuma is a dick, but for the most part, there are counter strats for every matchup, some are harder then others (Gief vs Sim) but they are still do-able.

Throws are a serious threat in HDR/ST, the fact that you have to get so very close to your opponent IS a risk, if your throw attempt gets read, there are several things your opponent can do to* fuck you right up*, like something simple, like walking back a touch and unleashing a fancy combo on your UNBLOCKING, foe. (can that be hard? Yuppers, this game is fuggin hardcore sometimes, but we love that)

Look at those videos:
[media=youtube]Q_E3n0hZZug[/media]
3 throws in the second match - 1st round. Is it cheap ? Hell no, if he didn’t Sagat could have ripped his ass…

[media=youtube]mWEZOywvktk[/media]
Once again, throws !
In the last match Balrog gets tricked by the fireball and then eats the super => that’s the kind of mind game that’s great about ST…
And the last round is just great, balrog saved by throws yet again.

This is high level ST. Welcome to the real world, neo.

I’ll just add no one forces you to play like that. Anyway it requires a huge amount of practice and dedication, and not everyone is gonna have the time/motivation for it. But just don’t call everyone a scrub because they don’t play with YOUR rules.
Unless they’re your friends and you agreed on em.

Agreed, the 2nd video was nice. Nice comeback for boxer. Without the tick->head butt, the boxer had almost no chance since he was so far behind in life. ChunLi player relaxed a bit since he was so much ahead. Had the ChunLi player be more careful, he would have countered those tick->throws. ChunLi lost because he got careless (by the fact he used his super from so far away shows he was relaxing and hoping the super will tick away the remaining life, common major mistake even for pros).

As Cammy player, I have no projectile attacks, so against turtles, often time tick->throw is the only option of winning. I chain my attacks quite often (j.mp->c.mp->c.mk->drill) but if they block them all, I don’t care how fancy my combos are, they are useless. So once again tick->throw happens. Tick->throw is only effective if the opponent is not anticipating them, otherwise, against good wake up reversals, its very dangerous to pull it off.

When I get dizzy from attacks, I want my opponent to throw me on purpose so I can tech their throws and lessen my damage. So as you can see, throw sometimes work against you when did it on the wrong time.

Sorry if I’m implying everyone is a scrub, what I’m trying to say is that I find too many people in online play that play like this, and for the most part, it’s really really annoying.

Everyone has a different style I guess…

AudioCG:

Oh ok I get what you’re saying, thanks for the info. If people want to throw all day, then heck I guess I have to resort to such things…

Resort?

I thought fancy 5+ hit combos where your style? Answer to example #1 was the flashiest move I had, on wake up, as a reversal.

Also, if ya see nuttin but throws, back up, and unleash your high damage combos, use crazy cross up combos and bust your opponents face, or, counter throw them out, and scare them away from that tactic.

Its the game man, and its been around for a long time, still rolls with the big boys at the tourneys (heck, it IS the big boy IMHO).

Not using throws in ST/HDR borders on retarded.

I’ll take that bet, I take Paypal. ID: Reviticus

Oh wait? You weren’t serious?