So I just bought this game on xbl because I heard it was the cat’s meows of Capcom fighting games. My background is mostly CvS2, SSF4, ST. This game (Online Edition) confuses me. I could not find anything useful in the newbie thread (first 5 pages). If I missed something feel free to redirect me to a specific page on a thread.
Inputs seem weird. Is this game dropping inputs or something? Even normals do not seem to come out reliably, not to mention specials/supers. Is this game different/unique in how it processes input? Does it have tighter restrictions on lining up the last directional input with the button for specials? Are input windows in general tighter than, say SF4? Are most of the links 3f or tighter? These could explain why things seem not to work for me, not sure if they’re the answer.
Why was OE released without an update on graphics? Not that I dislike the actual sprites, but looking at the difference between ST and HD’s animations, I find HD’s a lot more fluid and easy to follow. 3s OE’s animations similarly look very jerky and difficult to follow. Again, this isn’t just a cosmetic thing…it seems that characters recover before their animations show that they recover.
So obviously I’m new to parries and there’s a lot I don’t understand. If you parry a move it seems to freeze the game for a while. Does that mean that the person who got parried can’t cancel the move? What about something like rapid fire jabs?
Most projectiles seem pretty useless because you can parry. It seems like they’re not for spacing anymore, but more for combos (special cancel into super for example). Is this right?
Because every character can parry in the air if they don’t do a move, would it be wrong to say that “anti airs” look significantly different in this game vs those in other games? It seems that sometimes you’d want to do a non-optimal move to AA if it meant throwing off someone’s parry timing.
Given the above two points (zoning is every different in this game, anti airs are very different), does anyone else feel like they need a manual to learn how to play this game, even if they’ve played others before?
That last one was more of a joke, but seriously I’m so confused about this game that any answers would be helpful.
it doesn’t drop inputs. supers can be shortcut differently than sf4. instead of d,d/f, qcf, supers can be done here as qcf, d, d/f. in either case if you do it fully in both games it should work. this is not a link-based game, so doing basic combos is easier than sf4 most of the time. aside from reversal windows which are a lot smaller, it’s mostly the same.
because nobody wanted it. 3S has the best sprites and animation. jerky and hard to follow aren’t terms people usually describe 3S with. not sure what the last sentence means. examples?
both parrier and opponent are frozen for 16 frames, and opponent is frozen for some additional frames depending on what was parried (see system mechanics sticky). you can still cancel your move, but you’ll probably get hit before that happens unless you cancel into a fast move or something. the freeze isn’t that important, for now what matters is the person who parries gets to move first (most of the time).
somewhat right. they can be good as midrange pokes (especially exes). urien still has some influence over the air with his spheres and remy is still hard to approach because of lovs though, and so on.
it’s true. the aa game is more like a mind game than a guaranteed situation. spacing still matters, but it doesn’t dictate the outcome. somebody made a pretty good anti-air video recently, i don’t remember the link or who it was
you need a modified skillset, that’s for sure. as you spend more time you can decide if you’re interested in continuing
anti airing is just 10x more complex. that’s the difference haha.
a game within a game within a game.
good questions.
if your move is parried, it counts as if it were blocked/had hit. so if you can super cancel, special cancel, target combo, etc. you can do that. whatever you chose to do will happen immediately after the 16 frames of parry stun + additional frames depending on what was parried. of course you can also just block if your move is parried, so if the other guy went for something too slow, you just block it. or you could parry what you anticipate them doing in response to parry. etc.
Same as GaijinBlaze. Also, 3S has waaaaay more frames used for animation, meaning a lot more redraw work and therefore budget for a game with little commercial future.
if you’re talking about dropped inputs and jerky animations, are you talking about playing this game online?
3SOE has rollback netcode, which means on mediocre to bad connections it ends up dropping some inputs or sometimes you don’t see some frames of animation so it can keep everything in sync. you can mitigate that by turning up the input delay on GGPO settings. at that point, it becomes a lot closer to SSF4 netcode (looks smooth, but your inputs are coming out like they’re in molasses). it’s up to you which you prefer. remember that just because you turned your inputs up, doesn’t mean the other guy did. so if you’re over 120 ping and you turned your delay up to 2 or 3, the other guy might still prefer having his at 0 to avoid input delay and you’re just playing with a 2-3f disadvantage. as a general rule I think the more delay you add in the less the game is like real 3s and what you can react to changes. which kind of limits what kinds of connections you can play on.
you’ll learn over time what’s punishable and how fast things recover. I think the animations do a pretty good job of conveying that information for the most part.
if normals are not coming out, they’re probably being stuffed by a higher priority move. this is especially a big deal on your wakeup, where games like SSF4 let you get away with a lot more on wakeup. generally speaking you just have to block when waking up, since hitting buttons or throwing out shoryu on wakeup are not guaranteed ways of getting out of pressure. I’ve definitely had a few new players ragequit on me because I stuffed their buttons with meaty over and over and they thought the game was just ignoring their inputs. you’ll get a better feel for this as time goes on too, what beats what.
you have the right idea about anti airs and others have gone on in more detail. remember also that you can dash or walk under jump ins as well, that’s part of the anti air game. if they hit a button and you walk under them generally you can hit them as they’re landing.
fireballs are just long range, slow, easy to react to pokes. not too many characters can zone you out with fireballs in this game like they can in SF2, but they have various purposes still. they catch people dashing or walking forward, EXs can apply safe pressure at close to medium distance, a couple other things. I don’t think this should take too long to adjust to really, Alpha series and SSF4 AE onward aren’t huge on fireballs either, they’re more situational with lots of ways to get around them. SF2 is the game in the series where fireball zoning is amazing.
Thanks for the answers.
About the animation, I wasn’t really talking about online, since I assume online play could be affected by rollback/general packet delay or out of order packet transmission. So looking at a few things that seem contradictory to me about the animations:
-Hugo’s standing animation is probably more expressive and complex than any other character in Capcom’s games. Clearly many frames of animation, clearly fluid movement, but…
-Compare this to something like shoto backdash. It really looks like a teleport. It’s almost as if the character freezes frames during the fast travel portion of the backdash and then regains animation during the recovery period.
-Similarly, I think Dudley’s f+mp (or is it f+mk?) looks like it’s missing frames after startup and before recovery. This one I only really see if he does it like 3 times in a row or something, it’s probably just my perception.
-It seems to be the case that moves that people like to use to spam to build meter look odd…Q’s s mk seems to have a jerky animation, Ryu and Ken’s c mp looks like they’re punching molasses (so almost the opposite of jerky), Necro’s elbow punch (s mp maybe?). In the case of all of these it just looks like the subsequent animations of the move start sooner than they should. I suppose this could be an issue of perception, again, where I’m expecting the timing to be different on something else other than the animation, I’m not sure.
-With regard to characters looking like they will recovery later than they really do, I just realized it’s possible that the move I’m testing has a slower startup than I expect. I was trying to do Makoto’s s mp, s lk link on Ryu and it looks like he should be in hitstun for longer than he is. I’ll go back and check on this…if the animation isn’t as exaggerated as in other games it could be that too.
the blending and tweening used in sf4 may be throwing off how animation appears to you.
or you’re just simply not accustomed to how it looks/moves and it feels stranger than it is after you’ve seen it for a little while.
sf4 animation looks weird as hell to me. no impact and too smooth.
Ok, inputs are definitely required to be tighter or more precise somehow. I’ve never had issues with 360’s (270’s) before but I can’t do them reliably at all in this game. Not that this is a bad thing, but there IS definitely a difference between this game and other street fighters that I’ve played.
There just seems like way too much to learn in this game for me to pick up. Not even talking about parries, overheads, or charge partitioning…just getting my character to do what I want it to do and when is something that is significantly harder in this game than others that I’ve played. Simple special canceling/special moves don’t even work for me. Makoto’s s mp x ex oroshi, regardless of when it cancels should be a combo on standing hit, right? Today I experienced a situation where the s mp hit and I canceled it into an ex oroshi and it didn’t hit. It’s really frustrating not having a move come out when it should, (in some cases not even a normal move would come out and that’s just one button press). I must be getting old if I don’t have the patience to learn, but that’s where I’m at. This game is going in the same pile as GGXX for me unfortunately.
Thanks for answering all my questions tho, you guys are great!
mp x any oroshi is not a combo. you have to understand that makoto was created in 3rd Strike. what you’re seeing in other games are variations of the original. not everything that combos in other games works in this. cancelling a normal into a special move and it not comboing doesn’t mean it was difficult to do or you’re not doing it right, it means it just doesn’t combo. in general your description of the game is exactly the opposite of what most people think. people typically feel that inputs and windows are ideal in 3S. not randomized or stupidly tight like ST, and not so sloppy as SF4 where things overlap and you get lots of shit by accident. SF4 doesn’t have an input buffer on normals (or anything besides reversals, as far as i know), so i don’t know where the restrictive feeling is coming from when you play this. if you press a button during the animation of another move, it doesn’t come out because you timed it wrong in both games.
hey, it’s your call. but it sounds like you’re putting all the good games in that pile.
I don’t have anything technical to add but I can say that if you put in the time then chances are that you will find this game more rewarding in the long run. I don’t know how to fully describe it but this game just seems to play “right”. Parries keep players honest, and matchups are generally easier to learn due to the nature of the cast being solid and non-gimmick reliant.
The game within the game that is parrying will seem foreign for a little while but once you see your moves getting parried you open your mind up to new levels of play. You have to adapt more quickly than in SF4, but I find it that much more rewarding. The yomi level in 3S is exponentially deeper.
The added bonus is not having to deal with mashed ultras knocking you down 50%. Mixup options are fairly obvious and learning your characters tools comes naturally, with depth being added as you and your opponent work out the headgames on a more parry oriented level.
Tldr; give it a chance, its a great game. easy to learn and enjoy, insanely difficult to master.
On an off-shoot… I thought that SF4 looked jerky and shit with the animation… Look at Akuma’s demon flip > dive kick… makes no sense to me.
I guess it’s just what you’re used to.
3S has stricter inputs and timing than SF4, yes. All of my friends who play AE and then come play 3S with me know this through firsthand experience, haha. It also doesn’t have backdash invincibility and autoblock, which hurts them a good bit. You’ll probably have to work on your inputs/timing to match them to the 3S engine for sure. It’s not really all that hard, just gotta practice with it for about 30min and look for the right timings.
The other important thing to note is that you can’t combo everything that cancels like you can in AE. A good example from my own character is the Kubi Ori (Neckbreaker) that Ibuki does. In AE you can combo it off basically everything that cancels, even her cr.LK. That’s not even remotely possible in 3S. It combos off almost nothing in 3S. It’ll cancel, but it won’t combo.
Unlike in AE where you can cancel your normals into basically any version of any special you have and still combo, 3S generally asks that you to use equal or lower power buttons than the normal you started with to successfully combo. Mostly because those tend to be the faster versions of the desired special moves and weaker normals give less time to combo with on hit, haha. EX moves tend to work in combos where higher power non-EX moves wouldn’t because they tend to be very fast. Sometimes the only way to combo off some normals is to use specific EX moves. It also won’t allow certain moves to combo at all or only in very rare situations, spacing dependant.
Just try to remember that just because you can cancel into it doesn’t mean it’ll combo and that timing can play a very big roll in whether your moves come out or not, especially things like reverals.
And every time you use shortcut inputs a turtlerabbit dies, so just stop.
Far Fierce to MP Neckbreaker isn’t dumb but it might be pretty dumb that’s the only one that combos. & only a stupid like me would try to hit that particular combo.
this Makoto kept crLK(?) EX Oroshi for SBO quals @ Denjin one year then. I wondered what was up with that.
This is my point. As great as this game is and GGXX is, I just don’t get this game unfortunately.
I didn’t know s mp x ex oroshi isn’t a combo, I thought it was from the training mode I must have just remembered wrong. I do respect that the same characters in different games can have completely different combos (ST vs CvS 2 vs SF IV dictator).
I don’t use shortcuts. Not that I’m too good for them or whatever, but I just like doing moves the way “they should be”. The only exception to this is 360/720 moves, I use shortcuts for those.
Thanks for calling me an 09er, I’m not really sure what relevance that has to anything really, except try to box me into a demographic that really has nothing to do with my posts. Also not exactly sure why you seem offended that I’m dropping this game, it’s not like I said it’s horrible or bad in any way. I asked for clarification on why the game has certain things and I was given overwhelmingly solid answers.
