Kind of agree, kind of not.
Characters like Goro have been on and off many times, they’re not that essential and people don’t miss them so much.
I’m glad they retired Chang and Choi, their charge gamestyle was not that useful in the later games. I’d say they should retire Leona too, or severely retool her, she has not been good in many years. Chin is not exactly a favorite either, and not many people missed him in the 2003-XI era; I’m sort of glad they give him a twist for XII/XIII, I still prefer him over Momoko.
YOu don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. Leona’s been good in most of games ,Chin is pertty populaur, alot of people were mad he wasn’t int he Ash SAGA, adn Goro is also another character people missed while he was gone. Shut up.
LOL no.
Isn’t that every fighter?
People bitch and bitch about (insert any fighting game here) for one reason or another…yet can’t stop playing or talking about it.
rabblerabblerabble.jpg
“Chang”
“Charge gamestyle”
You don’t even know what makes him good do you or why he was high tier in 98? And in regards to Choi for later games, he was top in 02, top in Neowave and is still very viable in 98/um and 02um. In 03, his gameplay was emulated through Malin and she was dominant in 03 but nerfed pretty hard in XI. It’s not that his style is not useful. Leona has been high tier in pretty much any game she’s been in but XIII. Her normals are relatively unique and her playstyle revolving around controlling up close space from ranges most characters can’t contest along with her instant overhead game doesn’t really have an equal in KOF.
Please stop typing ignorant shit. I implore you. I beg of you.
Even after getting nerfed Malin was still mad strong in XI.
LOL no, all of them were pretty bad characters recently, that’s the reason why they were removed.
Choi was good in 2002 only by a twist of destiny, otherwise, he had been very faulty.
And no one complained of Chin not being in KOF 2003-XI, please quit joking XDD
Now the thread turned into shitty trolling.
“Geese is Lowtier” - Magegg
Choi was good in most games, at least mid tier and even in a game with geese and Krauser he still gets picked a good bit in 98UM and is still a decent character in 2k2UM. Shut up.
Probably don’t even know what an oogoosho or 777 is.
Yeah, but not everybody is an oogoosho or or an 777.
For example, Leona has been inaccessible for most of the players, she might be good but not everyone takes time to master her… And those same people prefer to use other character instead for important matches.
They better put a better balanced character with more appeal for everyone.
Edit:
You just said they should retool a character cause you can’t play her. There is players out there fine with it since 96 with no complaints besides you.
No. Those characters were getting progressively worse and worse, no one was using them. Choi had luck in KOF 2002 but he wouldn’t have lived up for KOF 2003. And Leona was severely outdated, that’s why they took her out for retooling on KOF XI, and she didn’t even got better for XII/XIII.
And you’re not even a decent KOF or XDZW player.
Then what about players like Ching Lung that main Leona and have beat players such as Dakou in tournament? Or the many 98og and 02og players at low/mid/high levels of play that often use Leona?
To say that she has been “inaccessible” and that “everyone” doesn’t take the “time to master her” is in itself a questionable premise that you have yet to actually prove or substantiate; and, apparently these “same people” use other characters for important matches.
You have to stop pulling shit out of your ass. It won’t work in fighting games and it won’t work in dialectic.
What do you mean by recently? Chang was good up to even 2000 and is still viable in the games that are recently played today such as KOF98og and 02um (and CVS2.) Choi has been good in 98, 2000, 2002, Neowave, and viable in 98um and 02um. He isn’t bad let alone flawed. To say it was a “twist of destiny” is unsubstantiated horse shit. Chin is the only one that I can see was bad in the last few iterations he was in but only because he was nerfed from 98 and onwards, and he was really good in 98. So his flaw wasn’t because he was a bad character by design, it’s that SNK/P made him a worse off character by limiting the options he had before. Otherwise his defensive and offensive game were superb. Leona has consistently been a good character and has had much play in the competitive and online circuits and only seemed to have been taken out of the game for story reasons.
Remember, you gave us the proposition of value proclaiming that these characters are not only “bad,” but they were removed because they were “bad.” You have the burden of proof. You didn’t substantiate on why they were bad at all, nor could prove that the developers made the decision to remove them because they “were bad” instead of other considerations such as aesthetics or time constraints. An additional point of consideration is that SNKP even had finished that sprite of Chang in the XIII style, even to signify intent that they wanted to put in the character in XIII. Leona and Chin were even put into XIII “regardless” of their utility, ease of use, or how well they did in the past.
Then you use loaded language to deflect the argument, asking “please quit joking” when the premise of the other person joking hasn’t even been proved.
Nigga, keep digging yourself a hole. All you’re doing is hurting your credibility while you try to preserve your own shitty ego and little sense of worth. You’re not going to improve as a player this way, nor as a communicator. Why would anyone want to bother watching your XDZW videos or even bother talking with you in general?
In before, “Hey guys! I was trolling! I was only pretending to be stupid! Fooled you!”
Either way, you have just pretty much proven yourself to be ignorant of not only the KOF scene, but also about the game itself. Then you proceed to make indefensible claims and try to brush off others’ considerations without even lifting a finger to even try to support your claims. I doubt many or any will take you seriously now. Whatever you say now will have no sense of merit. Good going.
Time to double post.
Please define outdated and lay out your criteria for it.
Then find evidence for me that SNKP “explicitly” decided to take her out because she was “outdated.”
Then substantiate why she “didn’t even got better” for XII/XIII. XII is an irrelevant point since the game was poorly received anyways.
So explain to me why she didn’t get better in XIII; and, explain to me what makes her weak comparatively to the cast of XIII. Explain to me what were the major differences between her design in previous games like in 98 or 02 to her design in XIII and the ramifications of those changes.
I’m really fucking curious what you have to say. That is to say, I don’t expect anything meaningful to come out of you.
Charge characters got way when the game became more and more aggressive and the combos longer. When the strikers came out, for example in KOF 2000 with the “active striker” system, an opponent would have even more chances of breaking any charge move . Also, their combos were way shorter and less damaging than the ones from any other kind of characters. Take Leona for example, her b,f moves take ridiculously long to come out, while Choi has too much recovery time. That really makes you want to use another character.
Malin was a good option to use instead, because she was faster, more aggressive and her moves had better priority, combo potential and less recovery time. And Ash was a better option for a charge character than Leona. Leona was included back in KOF XIII only to appear in the family picture, but she still sucked, I’d rather have Heidern.
Like I said, I had no problem, even 99 was very decent. But from 2000 onwards, she got worse and worse. 2002 might be a special case because the game system had nothing to do with the three previous games (even it was supposed to be a dream match). But since in KOF 2003 onwards the screen was enlarged, Leona had big problems to space and corner her opponents…
And you’re right about Chang. I’m only saying “Chang without Choi” can’t live for much time… That would be like taking out Clark and leaving Ralf in.
LOL. When people start telling you to “shut the fuck up”, it’s clear they’re going to mock at your opinion anyway. So, I don’t care about what you think unless you “prove it”. And having a couple Japanese players using decently a character no one uses doesn’t change my mind.
I’m only saying if those characters would have been that good, they would have simply stayed, just like it happens to some Terry or Benimaru or Kim.
No one started a war when Goro was not on KOF '99-2000 or Leona on KOF 2003, and SNKP didn’t have to re-include Chang and Choi con KOF XIII, so I think that’s enough evidence of my point.
It’s right there are very characters who can be surprisingly decent or even good when experts use them, but SNK doesn’t base only on experts to pick the characters they’re going to include in the roster.
Yo Laban get him
We gotta play 98 again, I need to learn that dumb Lucky MU.
98 night? I could always use the practice.
No KOF characters since '96 have ever relied solely on charge motion special moves strictly for their defense. You might as well say Terry and Kim have only gotten weaker as games progressed because their “DP” is generally a Flashkick motion. Instead, both of them swing around on tier lists based on completely different criteria. Likewise, Leona generally can anti-air five other ways or escape pressure with universal Guard Cancels. The reason Leona sucks in XIII has nothing to do with her move motions, but instead it all comes down to her getting hit with a weak neutral game due to worsened normals and poor damage because her combos happen to scale worse than with other characters, but there’s still Raiden who uses mostly charge moves and hits like a truck. There are dozens of other factors that come together do determine a character’s damage output, and you’re only able to see one.
Charge time is nearly irrelevant during combos if you know how to buffer, especially in 2000 where you can easily set up Seth’s striker to land an unblockable launcher that lets you link ANYTHING afterwards. The only thing that matters afterward is how long a character’s specials can juggle naturally which is all based on a whim. Outside of 2000 you’re looking at completely different factors other than special move input that determine a character’s strength. 2001 had random anywhere juggles out the ass, XI was about good launches or tagging into a character that can juggle until stun, and XIII comes down to maximizing damage scaling or bullshitting with meter build or an infinite.
You make it sound like you actually know the reasoning behind which characters make it into each KOF game, which is pure speculation. By your reasoning, I better get ready for Guile to be dropped from Street Fighter because ever since World Warrior he’s progressively weakened. Mai was axed from XII, and to this day scrubs complain that Vanessa or Angel or USA Team, et cetera, et cetera, should be in but they haven’t been touched in years. On the other hand, Terry turns out to be complete garbage in some games but guess what? There’s a reason he’s here every year.