So...is everyone confortable with the way America is headed?

General Discussion
201

Maybe you missed it, but the larger issue being discussed is the direction of the country in general, of which the health care issue is merely a subset. Major pieces of legislation affecting everyone in the country being passed by an accompanying referendum isn’t such a radical idea once you move past the utterly snooty assumption that the people are too dumb to wipe their own ass without printed instructions on each sheet of toilet paper.

Your counter-argument is basically: “America too big. America too complex. People too dumb. Referendums bad. Faith in Smart People.”?which is complete balderdash. Your cherished learned elites and techocrats have been at the helm of the sinking ship for umpteen number of years and have produced nothing but insolvent programs and silly foreign adventures. Einstein’s definition of insanity certainly applies here, so why you think continuing to have these studious elites administer the system going forward in the future is something only you can know and makes little sense.

Technocratic, elitist, authoritarian psychobabble. If you looked down your nose at people any further you’d flip over and land with your nose planted squarely in your own taint.

“Populism as the guiding force” …a bodiless abstraction bracketed by words which mean absolutely nothing. There are only good ideas and bad ideas followed by the subsequent battle in which bad ideas need to be defeated. The gang of 535 (and their staffers) in DC are the main source of bad ideas.

There is only one “ism” that counts and that’s Gangsterism. “Populism” among the people is indeed reactionary. The Populism of the common people is a response to the Gangsterism of the elites.

There’s a whole list that fits. Appeal to authority. Post hoc. Argument from ignorance. And on and on.

Pure unvarnished nonsense. Members of Congress routinely vote on pieces of legislation which they have not read nor written and have openly admitted as such on numerous occasions. I don’t need to link the John Conyers clip here. If the people who were elected to write legislation need a team of unelected lawyers to decipher the bills which they did not write and therefore do not understand, why would you then assume that because they have access to these various “interpreters” that they are any better suited to have a say in what becomes law than the citizenry at large?

I know, I know, stupid people are stupid and smart people are smart. It’s as if you believe that there’s a mythical legislative pixie dust which falls on people once they’re elected which grants them with sage wisdom and insight. Oh, and the Congressional staffer fairies are there to help too. What you’re saying would hold a lot more weight if Congress didn’t have an abysmal track-record and the shitty approval ratings to go along with it.

You deemed it dumb because you couldn’t understand it. Like how I can’t understand your counter-argument and think it’s dumb in general.

They means the group you referred to in your non-rebuttal earlier: “congressmen and reps have staffs whose sole purpose it is to keep them abreast”. That they. The they you have so much faith in despite being objectively and measurably terrible at their job.

“Keep them abreast…” What a joke. Congressmen keep themselves “a breast” alright, just not the kind you’re referring to.

If you want to go around believing that people are dumb and ignorant then that’s on you. No one is against experts giving expert advice, which is completely distinct from a gang of techocrats telling the citizenry what’s good for them.

202

i wonder if this is what he looks like

http://www.funnystuffblog.com/images/redneck-sign.jpg

203

i’m the one that believes that people are dumb, yet you’re the one the keeps saying it.

it’s people that are too caught up in and satisfied with their own bullshit to make any actual points aka people like you that make me glad direct democracy isn’t a reality.

lol…great now i have ramen and galbi all over of my keyboard.

204

I find it quite hilarious that you personally attack dn3000 for his beliefs and yet ask others not to engage in similar behaviour.

The historical precedent of governments rounding up their own citizens is long indeed, and also has roots in the US, with rounding up of indigenous natives of times past, as well as of Japanese descended citizens during WW2. Now granted one could argue that the govt during such a war couldn’t take any liabilities, but the precedent of internment has been set. The US govt has shown it is capable of such acts. In a more modern context with extended powers of the executive branch, patriot acts and whatnot, Homeland Security and extended FEMA powers it is not beyond the realm of possibility that the government could THEORETICALLY at the very least use such powers to intern citizens if a situation arises that such powers be used. Put simply the camps are there, most just generic and empty, and the power is there to do so. The question then arises would the government do so, in a situation where the security of the US is at risk. Well that’s a slightly separate question. But it is not absurd to assume that the govt could ‘theoretically’ at the very least intern citizens if necessary, and it is not absurd to say that there is a historical precedent for it.

The only remaining valid questions are would the government do so, and are they prone to abuse. Well let’s hope we never find out.

205

the government could theoretically round up citizens and place them in camps…

yes, the gov’t could theoretically do that. and canada could theoretically invade tomorrow.

206

I’m not even sure how to respond to this emotional dumb shit. It’s obvious you just started typing and said, “I’ll just say some snarky shit to even the score.” Idiotic.

207

We could also theoretically be hit by a meteor shower as well.

I’m merely pointing out that the extended power that govt has today and has had over the past decade since 9/11 in particular gives them extended powers of such use, without any appeal to congress or democracy at large. And I also wanted to point out that Japanese citizens were interned during WW2. So it has happened in the past. So it is not as absurd a notion as TS was initially trying to mock it as. At the very least understanding the notion that govts have such power should make the citizenry alert of any such abuses, if they may arise, and hopefully clamp down on it.

208

Time to have some fun.

209

This is basically the last page of this thread.

210

You’re both quite silly.

What did the government have to do with 9/11, aside from being too arrogant, lazy, and stupid to prevent it from happening in the first place?

211

We always see a reply like this in threads like this.

What is your point? How does your post relate to what’s going on? The constitution claiming men are free yet was written when slaves were in abundance has nothing to do with anything.

212

Explain please. Or do you just go around calling people names.

Oh and as for 9/11, maybe you should start with this report on nano-thermite.

waits patiently to be called more names for using scientific reports

213

Him: Silly for trotting out the classic “America, love it or leave it” argument, which wrongfully conflates a country with the actions of its government, then further assumes that the only two rational courses of action are to accept it blindly and without question or to go somewhere else.

You: Silly for claiming that nations are more likely to end through vast overarching conspiracies than through utter incompetence, then later citing a laundry list of historical precedents that strongly indicate the opposite. In the very same thread.

EDIT:

On nano-thermite:

  1. Finding an agent capable of demolishing the WTC is not the same thing as proving that the agent did demolish the WTC, or proving who was behind it, or that it was there all along and not the result of later contamination, that it’s even what the report claims it is, etc. A classic trait of conspiracy theories: beginning with the conclusion and working backwards…

  2. …Assuming that any of that is relevant, which it isn’t. Finding an agent capable of going through metal–which thermite is–is not the same thing as finding an agent capable of demolishing the WTC–which thermite isn’t, at least, not in a way that’s anywhere near consistent with how it happened. Contrast this with the accepted explanation of burning jet fuel and fires that weakened the structural integrity of the steel columns, which are consistent with how it happened, not to mention physics as we know it.

Another classic trait: assuming that either nobody will notice or that nobody will say anything when something wrong or out of the ordinary is being perpetrated. Such as tons of thermite being moved into the WTC, being allowed to burn for the absurd length of time it would take for it to produce the sort of conditions that are far more likely to occur in the kind of situation that has been widely accepted within the scientific community to have happened.

God damn, like this shit hasn’t already been introduced, debunked, and dismissed years ago.

214

Ugh.

First I never said FEMA or concentration camps were ever going to happen, I only merely pointed out, with chosen words, that it is a possibility and giving governments more power to enforce such draconian measures is dangerous.

And never once, not even in my anti-NWO thread did I state that the NWO would be the downfall of any nation, merely that we must safeguard against excess government. That is my what my crux of anti-NWO feeling amounts to, excess. bloated government. The NWO in this regard can kiss my ass. Maybe I should be more clear on I mean by the New World Order = same old Anglo-American empires of old. It’s the same western domination of empire/hegemony which has dominated the earth over the past 200 years. And it’s frankly getting out of control. The irony of the New World Order is that it isn’t new, it’s the same old power struggle, hegemony over nations, control of resources, trade, money that has existed for centuries. I suppose you could call it neo-imperialiam if you wanted.

The only rant I had in this thread was on the historical precedents of False Flag Operations. Maybe you should direct yourself to “Operation Northwoods”, “Lavon Affair”, “Operation Gladio”, for further reading.

215

You know what? You’re right. Though, if this thread is still around and kicking tomorrow, I may bring a present.

216

And yet in the official report absolutely no mention of nano-thermite was made, the question that needs asking is why?
The official report which people love to point to has already been discredited by 6 of the 10 members involved with its publication who have gone on record to state that they were hindered from doing their investigation and even flat out lied to.
The notion that jet-fuel could collapse the structure of the the World Centres, false and absurd. Never has it happened before or since and has been discredited by many prominent scientists. Jet-fuel does not burn hot enough nor long enough. And towers do not magically pile drive into their own footprint as stated in the official report.
The collapse of WTC 7 from a few low level fires, NO JET CRASH, and collapses within its own footprint within 7 seconds, i.e. free fall speed without any resistance. Surely there should be some resistance from parts of the building which didn’t have fires?
You mention that nano-thermite would take a long time to burn, yet the nano-thermite report states its burning temperature is much lower than the temps that would have been produced inside the buildings, therefore adequate conditions would have already been met. The temperature needed to burn thermite was present.

As the years go by, the official report gets shot down time and again. At best it’s incomplete and lacks research, at worst it’s a cover-up. The jury is still out.

217

um… 2 objections to your points. (note i do NOT believe this was a conspiracy purpatrated by bush, however i think some people were involved because the stories do NOT add up).

  1. scientists have found traces of nano-thermite in the dust that got kicked up in the air from the buildings colapse.

  2. you say “jet burning too hot fits with physics and what we know of the day” except there are only 3 steel framed buildings in recorded history that have EVER collapsed due to fire damage… and all 3 of them went down on the same day, due to the same instance. on top of that it is well documented by video that world trade 7 had 130+ feet of it’s fall at the EXACT rate of speed increase produced by gravity (ie. a free fall) which is ONLY possible if there is nothing in it’s path under it… so at minimum there had to be 130 feet get removed from the bottom to make that amount of acceleration possible.

that’s before we get into the fact that multiple military bases in the area were running war games on that day in which they were simulating planes being hijacked to fly into buildings, or the fact no major pieces of plane fuselage was found at the pentagon or in… was in penn? where the other flight crashed.

so to say that what we were told matches up with the science of that day is a fiction.

218

salty bitches trying to raise a niggas blood pressure

219

The 9/11 shit is kinda off topic. We’re talking about where America is headed…

220

The plane that supposedly “crashed” into a field in Pennsylvania had debris spread over 8 MILES. Since when does a plane crashing into a field have parts of its plane 8 MILES away? Think about all the objects in the way at ground level over an 8 MILE distance. Not only that but as you mention parts of the plane were missing and never found.

This would only occur if the plane had been shot in mid-air and taken down, possibly by a missile strike. Once again science goes completely against what was reported in the Official 9/11 report. I’m beginning to think science took a day off on 9/11. Maybe it was hijacked??

As for Pentagon, nothing even remotely approaching a plane was ever found around the site, or even miles away. No fuselage, no fuel, nothing. Planes that crash in the middle of oceans leave behind wreckages that can be salvaged. What happening in the Pentagon attack? Did the plane just spontaneously combust all its parts into atomic pieces and drift away?