So, I'm likely gonna drop Hawk

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1

I’m just sick of it. He has so many horribly bad matchups, and even the ones that are neutral to him still require you to basically never fuck up.

just about any random shotoscrub in the game can just beat out your moves by mashing(air tatsu>>>T-hawk), whenever anyone)ANYONE) decides to just run away and turtle the match becomes 10X harder, you can beat his command grabs literally by just mashing throw, his massive body soaks up every fireball on the screen, You need EX meter to even attempt to get in on a zoning char, and, finally:

His damage is not even that good. plenty of other characters can equal/exceed his damage output, they just don’t do it all in a single move like he does.

Pick a random shoto(also counting oni). they can have just as good damage output as hawk, much better movement, a projectile, a MUCH better reversal(tomahawk sucks dick unless you predict perfectly), better air to air moves, etc.

Hawk only becomes somewhat less shit when he gets the hard knockdown, and even then there are other characters(Akuma, Cammy, etc) that can do the same thing, but better.

I’m tired of having to play perfectly against every random scrub I meet, because if I don’t I can literally just get mashed to death since their moves will beat mine 90% of the time.

I made it to around 2800 PP with him, but frankly it’s just not fun anymore. I have to work so hard in my matches, while the other guy can just roll his face over his stick and fight evenly.

Just gonna wait till Ultra hits so I can main Hugo. hopefully capcom will not repeat the mistakes they made with hawk.

2

And playing an equally huge character w/ slow ground mobility in a new game is going to help? lol ok.

3

Then drop him. Nobody cares who you are or are not playing. This didn’t need a thread.

4

Ever notice how Zangief has always been a tier or two above Hawk?

Same basic char type!=the same char.

It’s more about just reiterating those badly capcom fucked the character.

Hawk has been bottom tier through 3 seperate iterations of the game.

5

That’s most likely gonna change in Ultra.

Frankly, T.Hawk was never as bad as people made him seem imo, he was just not explored enough. He’s a high risk, high reward character with a very gimmicky offensive, but people only see the risk.

6

I touched on that.

it’s not that he’s bad, per say, it’s that he’s just in a game full of braindead shit that beats out his options.

Some of his normals(standing HK, sanding MP, crouch MK) are really good, but either have bad recovery or shit priority that lets others just mash their own normals and still beat them.

And for a guy who spends as much time airborne as hawk, his air to air game sucks. random air tatu beats pretty much all his options.

And again, his damage output isn’t even THAT great. sure, it LOOKS fantastic because it’s all done in one hit, but, for example, one of ken’s easy shoryuken combos can equal that sort of damage no problem, and doesn’t lose to random throw mashing.

Basically you have to totally out think and outplay your opponent to win with hawk. If they actually know the hawk matchup, they can easily make life very hard for you.

Irl I might be more likely to play hawk, because it’s less BS. but online, where everyone is perfectly fine with playing like a twat? hell no.

7

It’s tough.

I can barely beat any DeeJays out there. I’m around 2000PP right now with him and he’s my main. As wierd as it sounds have you tried using ultra 2 against shotos? I found it to make my gameplay better. The smarter ones don’t jump as much and the dumb ones don’t know what ultra 2 does. By not having ultra 1 it doesn’t make me feel like I have to go in there and land ultra 1 to win.

I do have satisfaction playing as t hawk. Though some days its more disappointment especially with Deejays, Blankas and good Bisons.

I don’t know who else to use. I’m going to give Hugo a go in Ultra though he’s not going to be great perhaps

8

Although I disagree with some of things you’ve said I understand that T.Hawk can be frustrating in some match ups and that if he doesn’t fit you meta you would be less inclined to use him. I hope you have luck using Hugo but it would be my guess that Hugo experiences the same problems that are making you drop Hawk in the first place.

9

The sad thing is I actually like the way he plays a lot. I just can’t stand having to try so hard against every mashing scrub, or have to spend an entire match just chasing down turtles.

And from what I’ve seen of hugo, he won’t play the same at all.

for one, he has several options to let him chase down people trying to run away. Both his backbreaker and AA ultra are aimed at people trying to jump away to escape his grabs, and his EX lariat and meat squasher chase down people on the ground if they try backdashing or the like.

He also gets standing pressure in his claps, which is something I think hawk really needs.

While I’m sure he’ll still have problems with heavy zoning like all grappler type chars, I feel like his options are a lot better when it comes to shutting down people trying to lame you or go braindead autopilot mode.

10

I only play offline, so I can’t really sympathize.

Also, I think you’re forgetting one of T.Hawk’s greatest strengths: His Air-to-ground game. Sure, if they have an SRK you’re out of luck, but against characters who doesn’t have a reliable DP, you’ll be able to pressure them quite a bit from the air by simply fordning them to guess wether they should AA your Dive or AA your jump-in. And if yo uguess wrong, you’ll usually don’t lose that much health.

If you’re point-blank with T.Hawk, HP Tomahawk and U2 should be good options against jumpers as well. The difference is that you have better lower-risk options than Hugo, thanks to Thrust Peak, cl.MP, cl.HK etc.

T.Hawk gets a huge buff in the standing pressure department thanks to his improved spires. Hugo’s will still be better, but T.hawk will definitely be able to do it too.

When it comes to lame play, HP TB is probably your best tool do discourage that kind of playstyle. Beat their SRKs a few times with it and they’ll probably get their acts together. There are easy and reliable set-ups using HP TB to beat many reversals right now, and while it might be harder to find good ones vs DWU, I don’t doubt that we’ll be able to.

11

You better drop him like i did.
Life will be sooooo much better not playing hawk.

Wait what ultra version can do.
If hes still crap in ultra then never touch him again.

Btw can he os dp/spd like in st?
If yes, what is the movement to do it?
I dropped him before exploring this option.
Thanks in advance.

12

I don’t see how he could OS two different grounded specials. Would have to be with proximity cancel, but it would be extremely hard by hand and not really worthwhile.

13

What Doopliss says is true is gonna be hard to do consistently, but if you want to do it try Proxy os MK with DP then os SPD with block and grab

14

man, that is a lot of steps. Hawk’s command grab didn’t have a whiff animation in ST, that’s what made his option selects possible.

Any ways my point Attica is that since Hugo is a large hit box character everyone you play online is going to more or less treat you the same way. Yeah, you might blow them up but just wanted to say that in general that is how Giants vs everyone goes. I wasn’t at all suggesting that Hugo would play like T Hawk but he might very well possess the same weaknesses.

15

I don’t see the point of dropping Hawk for Hugo, with the condor spire buff, walk speed buff and better normals hawk is probably gonna be the better than Hugo. If you plan on dropping hawk for another grappler in Ultra switch to V-Gief.

16

I know but it’s the only way I think it could be done in this game engine.

17

eventhubs.com/news/2014/apr/03/daigo-wants-play-t-hawk-and-zangief-usf4-after-evo-2014-feels-ryus-ultra-changes-wont-affect-character-much/

meanwhile someone else might pick up Tony Hawk

18

Daigo has to be joking.

19

I don’t think he is. Daigo is not one to joke like that, from my experience. He obviously sees something that most people don’t.

I’d say he’s probably on the money there. The current style of T.hawk player heavily focuses on being a grappler, and going for the mix-up all the time. But his tools actually give him a bit more room to do stuff. Like he’s not bad at counterpoking in footsies. His st.mk and st.mp are both fantastic for this. He has a few anti-airs that no one uses and a sick U1/Super/SPD setup off of one and the other is great for folks jumping at you from farther out. etc So I think T.Hawk’s kind of an underestimated, sometimes undiscovered character. He’s still low-tier currently but he’s got more to him than most people think. You just have to patient and clean. He can’t muscle his way in like Zangief can.

And he’s getting better in Ultra too so.

20

What setup are you talking about?