So, how do you buff low tier in this game?

Classic Fighting Games Marvel VS Capcom 2
41

There is a massive amount of misinformation about what some believe to be ‘low tiers’ in MvC2.

  1. Nickguy - Spiderman does NOT just have 1 combo (the basic aircombo). Also, Spiderman’s standing HK does in fact combo into Crawler Assault. Just have to be right next to the character and the super must be executed very quickly.

Spiderman can easily combo into both Maximum Spider AND Ultimate Web Throw. From a combo standpoint, Spiderman’s standing hk is his best friend. In that sense, his hk is as important to him for combos as Cable’s hk is for setting up AHVB combos. Here we go: Spiderman - s hk, Spider Sting (1 hit) xx Maximum Spider (or Ultimate Web Throw). The timing on the cancel is extremely easy. That’s a solid damage output for 1 meter. I will provide video examples to prove it.

As with many mid tier characters (most of the characters discussed in this thread are mid tier, NOT low tier), Thanos bubble assist allows Spiderman to do a LOT more damage. I present exhibit A:

[Spiderman 85% combo - 2x Spider Sting / Ultimate Web Throw]

Exhibit B: [Spiderman 73% combo on Jugg - 4x Fierce] Very impressive damage output considering Juggernaut has one of the highest defenses in the game

Exhibit C: [Spiderman 93% combo - 1 meter (on Psylocke)]

NOTE: None of these combos can be escaped by mashing. I have tested it in training mode vs people who are adept at mashing out of Thanos bubble. There is simply not enough time to mash out in the above referenced combos.

This last example is primarily to show what is possible within the combo engine. There has been much discussion about the low damage output of Spiderman. This is a Spiderman 100% combo vs Mando (standard defense character) for only 1 meter:

I will make further corrections and clarifications about the rest of the misinformation in this thread soon.

War Machine can do ALL of his Infinites from MvC1 in MvC2. I have seen Josh do all of them on Dreamcast, and I remember I talked about that with him and he confirmed it to be true.

42

Iceman is definitely viable. Have you seen how I fight vs god tiers (and the rest of the mid tiers) using Bobby Drake? Freeze throw into Thanos bubble or Doom rocks is godlike. The throw has a VERY small window to tech hit out of, and after connecting the throw into assist (or just the throw on its own in the corner) I can do anywhere from 55% - 85% (depending on the opposing character’s size/defense) for just 1 meter. Dash standing lp or crouching lk is the perfect way to tick throw into bubble or rocks.

I use Iceman (Charlie/Iceman/Thanos or Iceman/Charlie/Thanos) vs god tiers on XBL and often win or they get mad that they are losing to mid tiers so they ragequit. Same goes for Dreamcast MvC2: I often surprise people with how competently I fight vs god tiers using Iceman and Charlie. My next post in this thread will elucidate the ways in which Charlie is so much more deadly than most people realize.

This video [Higher Iceman v.1] displays Iceman’s strengths/deadliness better than any video I have ever seen:

This is a great example that especially shows how dangerous his tick throw setups are. The opponent tech hit 2 consecutive freeze throws (not an easy feat!), then I got him on the third throw into bubble:

This video presents Iceman as damage output monster. In case you or anybody is wondering how I achieve such a tremendous amount of hits from Arctic Attack, I will explain. I Kara cancel icebeam into Arctic Attack. That causes Iceman to descend at a significantly slower rate than usual, which maintains his position on the horizontal plane with the opposing character thereby resulting in a high amount of hits.

43

Omega Red is fine as is, certainly one of the best shitty characters anyway. His floor tendrils into qcf+k is low tier Sent Spit. You can direct and control when you drop from that move, and manipulate the up-fwd version to use as a tri-jump. Also, air dash and ambiguous Coil throws.

Most low tier players spend more time whining than finding the good shit.

Fwiw that JP Omega/Jugg/BBHood is Dau. He was stealing wins off of ppl left and right.

Full disclosure: I play MSP. :slight_smile:

44

I find colossus to be really underrated in this game

45

You could try to make a ratio/tier system, where you points and higher tier chars cost more points.
But I heard a team of 1 sentinel is better than a team of 3 rolls (can someone tell me if this is right info), so limiting the game to 3 characters max, while having a ratio system would be hard.

46

Blackheart is almost top tier already, and possibly on the ass end of it. Basically, Blackheart needs to be able to combo into a standing mp launcher solo on non-airborne opponents. Having Blackheart’s ground dash a standard one and his dash as it is be a special will be the best way to re-balance him. That or make it a joke to jump-cancel out of his forced dash from flying screen, but I like my idea better.

An easier way to combo into his infinite solo would be nice, but whatever. Also, giving him block damage on his hard punch and hard kick moves would be such insane chip it might become unfair.

Hulk’s Gamma crush has to be inescapable via mashing in EVERY instance where he hits on the way up. A hit with a full gamma crush combo mid-screen without assists is like 80-90% on the low end if you don’t escape it. This is also part of why assist modified gamma crushes are so deadly. Test out this combo with Hulk-Doom and get back to me. Flying hk, dlk, dmk, call Doom, Gamma charge, wait till you cross up, and activate the gamma crush at a time where you will narrowly whiff on the way up, or barely graze them on the way up.

More later maybe. I’m extremely busy right now.

47

i missed this til now. thanks for the informative post brett :slight_smile:

for the war machine infinite i was talking about the lp mp hp dash inf. he has that back? thats pretty cool

48

Spiderman can also [assuming the guy isn’t airbourne] standing hk, spider sting [1 hit], maximum spider and it will all combo.

If Hulk has no meter and lands a corner combo, just ducking hp [1 hit], and do the infinite [up gamma charge, uf lk redirect, repeat till dead…,]., this is a killing infinite btw.

WARNING: MASSIVE POST ALERT

Buffs to characters

Cammy
She needs more stability in her KBA super so people can’t fall out of it.

Wolverines
No longer bounce off when divekicking on hit. Can be mitigated mildly by forcing them to block Doom or Sentinel, and then going for the divekick or instant overhead, then doing a drill claw whiff and comboing off the assist.

Spiral No changes needed as she’s top tier. She’s actually one of the 5 characters that make most of the cast unplayable.

Chun-Li
She gets her Air Demon back, but keep in mind I place Chun-Li quite high. Probably 15-29.

Megaman
Uncertain what to do with him. He’s far better than you think he is.

Blackheart
Mentioned earlier.

Psylocke
No changes necessary. Psylocke is better than you think.

Cyclops
See Psylocke

Ironman
No changes necessary. Far better character than you think. He’s mid top-10 IMO. I’d be tempted to eliminate the character, give War Machine Ironman’s version of the proton cannon, and make him as fast as Ironman currently is [but with the same horrid attack speed and massive block / hitstun War Machine currently has]. This would be the best way to handle Ironman. The new War Machine would become the second or third best character instead of being 5th. He’d be more like his MVC1 counterpart. It’d be like giving Ironman who I deem 4th the War Destroyer. Of course at this point he’d be as ruinous to the game’s balance as Sentinel.

Doom
Needs to be faster with his air dash. Keep in mind he’s one of the 10 best characters in the game. Any more than this and he’d utterly ruin MvC2 like IMO Sentinel, Spiral, and Storm do.

Iceman
I honestly don’t know what to do with this character. He’s IMO on the ass end of the 10-20 group probably, or on the high end of the 20-30 group. There are too many ways to lose 50% of your health off a hit for no good reason solo, and even worse with assists.

Jin
His typhoon is unroll-able in all situations except for after a second OTG. All his links and combos into supers that were lost in MVC2 are restored. His Bloodia Vulcan hits sj height opponents. [Sentinel can fly up out of range if he sees it fast enough]. He also needs to be faster, and gets a double jump.

BB Hood
Don’t know what to do with this one. She’s better than you think. Learn Gambit Morrigan BBHood.

Morrigan
Make it easier for her to combo into her supers without needing assists and she’d become almost as good as Magneto. The only thing she’d lack is the double-snap. She’s far better than you think.

Dhalsim
Be thankful that Blackheart, Capcom, and to a minor degree Storm and Magneto are here. Dhalsim’s better than you think. There’s little more you can do besides resolve certain command conflicts that can be done to make him better without making him broken.

War Machine
I think that the best way to deal with him is to eliminate Ironman, and Give War Machine’s Proton cannon the same properties as Ironman’s current one. No other changes. Any more than that and you’d be in essence giving Ironman [5th best character in the game at worst IMO] a buff.

I’m not going any further with this. I’ve forgotten too much, and have been typing too much.

49

Ruby Heart
Don’t know what to do with her. A loaded Ruby landing a hit into launch means you’re eating as many ball supers as she can aim to hit you with, and her Ball super has invincible instant startup. If you have something like Sentinel, Ruby capture, Ironman, any hit when you have 2 bars and they can walk away from the machine. Also, her sj hard kick is faster than many character’s lp, so she can sj and mash them all day to meter build. You have to be careful trying to punish her for this because she can ball super. She also can’t get guard broken by normal attacks up close easily because she can super your follow-up. The only thing I might do is give her a double jump. That would be with great fear and trepidation. That would double her combo potential.