Sneaker Ninjas Unite! - The Guy matchup thread

more stuff against cody

ways to punish him on block…

-zonk knuckle is very punishable but it’s distance dependent. i can’t really explain how to punish it. from max distance it seems to be unpunishable with any of guy’s moves. if he does it at an unsafe distance though on block… it can be punished by a full ff chain. you’d be surprised by how far away he can be and still get the full chain to punish. the only way i can really tell you to get a better feel for how far the distance is to punish a blocked zonk knuckle is to try it out. all zonk knuckles can be punished by a st. strong. it’s much easier to punish with than an ff chain being that it has more range. unless you’re fighting a really adept cody that knows the max range safe distances you should be able to punish it. timing is slightly strict. you can punish it earlier with st. strong than you’d think. cancel to ex shoulder if you don’t mind burning meter, or go for command run slide if you don’t want to burn any.

if you punish a blocked zonk knuckle with ff chain…unless he does it from point blank range… you can’t tag on an ex shoulder at the end… he’s out of range.

you can also punish the EX zonk knuckle pretty easily… i have yet to punish it from max distance(1hit zonk knuckle).

-straight ruffian kick and the slide ruffian are punishable by full ff chain… this goes for EX as well.

-cody’s overhead(f+fierce) is punishable on HIT with ff chain. he has to within st. jab range of course.

that’s all i can remember right now. i’ll find more stuff on this matchup later.

No need to FADC, straight into the ultra was working for me 100% of the time

U2 punishes All versions of MSB including the jab version. - Can any one confirm this. I tried and it doesn’t work on any MGBs…

damn thats awesome, tried it out and that shit works so well.

AAing blanka still seems like a bitch… on wakeup in particular he just gets to jump over you with mk all fucking day, getting knocked down in this matchup sucks. I did have EX tatsu work a few times but occasionally it would come out on the wrong side, when i tried doing it later i was stuck in block stun.

I’m so free against Bison anyone got tips? I can’t handle that Scissor kick pressure.

Block and do bushin chain.

I have had some trouble with guile, I suppose others are too, that’s why I can’t find anything for him on here. I have found that guys hurricane kick on wake up usually catches guiles off guard cause they love that sonic boom so much. Any other things I can do in this matchup?

As a Guile player, Guile has trouble with cross ups. Try to bait flash kicks with Focus-baiting. Use the elbow drop to avoid SB’s if he’s far away, and wall-jump if he’s closer; Guile will probably try to FK you. Guile is capable of so much, but the majority of players online will play one-dimensionally… Mix-up Guile’s game and get into his one-dimensional head. You’ll lose if you start getting hit by his flash-kicks, you shouldn’t be getting hit by those…

GUILE Are you having probles with the turtle types or the really aggressive players that primarily use his normals to apply pressure? A few tips (forgive how basic they are) Ultra I his double sweep after blocking the first hit. EX run through his fireballs. From reasonably far away flip over his SBs and fall short with an elbow drop to bait an FK. All I got right now…

Bison:

^ I thought everybody knows by now that SK is safe on block…

Bison pretty obviously will be a tricky MU for Guy. He plays pretty much Guy’s game, more straight forward on his options, but probably better because of his better footsies, better pokes, better reversals (maybe).

*Bait and punish tactics won’t get you much damage since Bison’s reversals don’t really make him vulnerable to combos, but you can and should at least score a Run -> Slide for the untechable knockdown. You must score as many untechables as possible, that’s vs Bison 101.
*Without meter, his wakeup is kinda free so Guy’s mixups should work well, just be careful with his 3 f startup c.short, it’s his free SK loop card.
*It may be wise to not jump at U1 Bison, Guy’s jump is kinda easy to react to, and Hell Attack -> NB hurts.
*Defense: Random jumps should be easily countered by Guy’s air to air normals or air throw (recommended!), but if he’s jumping in your wake up, it may be better to just block since he really can’t mixup that well. Ex Tatsu should be your only wakeup option, but don’t try against crossups.
*DON’T GET CORNER TRAPPED: Bison’s corner pressure is fantastic and Guy shouldn’t be able to keep up with it. Well, U2 should make him at least hesitant to hit meaties on you… maybe. I’m not sure of how good Ex Tatsu does against his meaties, and I’ll probably won’t be able to investigate since I don’t own the game and I’m both the Guy and Bison main player from my playing group, go ahead and try it for yourself.
*Bison’s s.forward can be countered by c.strong. I think his s.roundhouse can’t be countered by any of Guy’s normals, but lvl1 FA -> backdash or FA absorb -> forward dash -> throw if you have the balls could do the trick. In fact, Ex Run -> slide alone should keep him honest from poking you all day.

Thanks guys…no pun intended…i’ll try this out, online now…

How to stop Blanka’s second ultra

Well I was playing a blanka that had that annoying ultra 2 ground thing and I was able to stop it by wall jumping and j.mk him. Stopped him dead. I’m guessing when he starts his ultra it would be best to jump towards him and try to hit him since he is vulnerable. Hope this helps somebody. It was a pain for awhile for me…

P.S. This maybe only after he hits the ground the first time. At this time you should be in the air toward him. I’ve seen people get hit when they are right above him when the animation starts. if someone can test this out it would be cool.

I was playing against this scrubby Guile and he kept doing the sweep. I find only 2 things beat it: cr.lp and light and medium versions of the tatsu. I find the tatsu more lenient on timing, since you can do it right before he throws out the next kick.
Just throwing this out there for those that didn’t know.

It only punishes jab and strong MGB, fierce and EX push you too far away for it to be within range.

If you’re close, try blocking the first and focusing the second. Or, you could focus the first if you know its coming. If you’re farther away you might be able to get a free grab from a Focus-dash off the second sweep… or even U2. :chat:

GUILE The timing on the U1 punish for the sweep is pretty strict. ESO’s tip pf the tatsu is damn easy, helps to do a SRK motion after the first hit is blocked. If you go with the crouching lp you can (of course) continue with one of his longer combos. Standing lk is quick enough to hit him in between but seems useless given the other options. On a whiffed or blocked FK Guy’s Super is a decent punish.

ROSE If she is Focus happy go for a running mk, she’ll absorb the hit but the FA will whiff. Might not be in all circumstances but I did it 4 out of 4 times tonight. Soul throw DESTROYS Guy’s flip.

GENERAL If you can spam some moves from a safe distance to build meter before engaging. It is pretty damn important to have EX stock for EX tatsu to give Guy a decent wake up reversal. If my opponent is really applying pressure I really don’t use EX moves to often so I can keep stock stored for this.

Hmm, I’ve not tried this in SSF4, I recall reading in one of the Dev blogs that they sped up the second hit to stop people from firing off an FA in between hits… I just tested it and I couldn’t get it to work. Either my timing sucks or they added more block stun? You can Focus the first hit and release to tag him before the second connects but that seems borderline psychic.

Blankas ULTRA 2 leaves him pretty open on block even from full screen so you can literally run up to him and do basically w/e during his recovery. But I have found that Blanka’s BS is on lockdown against GUY. Being a RYU player Blanka reinstated why I hated the SF2 cast (no true variety within a single character ex. blanka lol). Anyway theres not much Blanka can do when Guy sits back and relaxes in his low-top dunks. You can beat his blanka balls with tatsu and cr.mp, but a more safer approach is to run xx slide on block. As long as he makes contact with you its a free untech knockdown. When close there really isnt much he can do (lacks combo ability) if he jumps when close cr.hp tends to catch him (like balrog) he can’t spam electricity because cr.mp beats it clean and you can throw timing out the window (cr.rh if you arent right up on him) Cr. mp is also great for his non-sense dash as it will catch him if he dashes behind you, jus dont mash it the timing isnt strict though, because Guys cr.mp doesnt come out too fast or too slow (works well with ibuki’s dash, though lp may be better for her a lil on her later) Because Blank is at such a disadvantage (especially with U2) cr.jab pressure him (jab, jab, strong or target etc) he’ll be pressed to blanka ball but u’ll teach him that its easily punished.

Ibuki: Not much here except watch out for her normal grab (THE RANGE IS BROKEN!!!) literally her whole arm will a activate the grab nd its a bit annoying like chun-li’s grab except it seems to hav longer range. Kunai’s should be jab’d on sight when she runs away, if shes foolish enough to do it in close its easy to dash or run under, on wake up if she tries the kunai vortex nd you can tell she isnt going to cross up jus mk tatsu (havent tested RH) This will not only hit her but knock the Kunai’s out (even EX). The one thing alot of Ibuki’s like to spam is her low dash grab (neckbreak), all versions will be stuffed by S.MK. I haven’t figured out the good normal anti-airs S.RH & FP tend to trade, which isnt a bad thing when you can afford it, but you can completely avoid her jumpins all together they dont seem to really put much pressure on Guy (especially with meter). Be careful of her normal slide if she spaces it adequately well she’ll be able to use her broken normal grab and catch (annoying). DONT SLIDE ON HER!!! Unless you space the run xx slide perfectly you will get grabbed, and even with well spaced cr.rh chances are her grab range will catch, i even tried to bait her with a slide into ex tatsu her range will get you better you recover. Treat her like Makoto on knockdown, her main tool that she could use is her DP+k special, which is very punishable. When target combo pressure be wary of the bushin pressure she can beat it out even by accident. Run xx slides r safe after target just make sure you use S. mp or cr.mp it tends move you a bit away from her so the MP’s will still hit. Try not to jump in from afar or at all unless on knockdown because her cr.fp (i think this is right) will beat it from any range and on cross up. Stray away from bushin flips as an anti air because her air grab will destroy it not to mention other normals.

Cammy: This lil red ridding hood is a tricky match up for guy. First of all hooligns will be beat by tatsu’s and S.jab probably fierce as well but the jab is so fast u’ll quickly teach her not to just throw it out. This match is tricky because you can run all you want but eventually you’ll hav to face her. Cr.mp seems to mess with her crouching normals due to its range, her standing normals tend to get around that, but thats when you throw out cr.fierce, its range is incredible, such that even if you dont hit chances are she’ll hav to block (i believe S.FP to Bushin CHain works on her, making cr.fier e even more reliable) .Didnt have too much success with S.mk like her body is slender that its hard to range nd hit when she is blocking. Other than other that punish any of those air cannon spikes with ex tatsu (possibly rh) cannon drills are easy target combos etc. Dont neutral jump to elbow the cannon DP will catch you even though it goes out at a forward arc (then again that move has BS properties so that prob explains it) Shes really gotta be close to do anything even pressure so make her work for it with you cr.mp/fp.

T.Hawk: This match is in Hawks advantage regardless of what you do, but you can tell him the things he shouldnt do. Alot of Hawks love the dive the problem with using it is that since he doesnt hav that great of a jump you’ll be able to tell where he is going to land if he dives, so if you bait it to whiff you can run slide reliably. Of course on block ex hozanto, didnt try run slide for that though.Hawk’s normals will still outclass you, but fortunately he isnt Gief who can option select with a green hand type move to close distance, thus you can reliably stay at max range of his normals. The normal that tends to beat Guy regardless is his S.RH, don’t try to counter it by predicting it you will get beat, BUT when he throws it out you can react and hit him S.jab possibly Fierce jab jus comes out super fast. Its not a lot of damage but it shows Hawk that he jus cant normal for free. Condor spire isnt too much of a problem, beware of his fakes to close distance for a grab fortunately if he backs you into a corner and uses it u’ll hav time to wall jump away. Its hard to punish because most the time he’ll use the jab version which doesnt go far. Other than that I havent had too many hawk matches to truly get a feel.

Adon: Most Adons you will see will spam the jag tooth and try to grab such that a back dash will beat it (not in the corner) Target combo pressure with bushin flips, he seems tall enough that if he tries to knock you out of it that slight frame where his crouching attacks stand him up a lil will be caught. Use run xx slides to of course bait his jag knee. Other than that if you can avoid the jag tooth spam Guy can easily pressure him with out much worry . If you get knocked down just block and weather the storm he doesnt hav much other than a good normal grab to truly put you in a bind. Neutrl jump elbows tend to do well against him, his jag knee shoots out a bit far exposing his head to the elbow fairly quickly. But once you see through Adons tricks and annoyances Guy seems to shut him down fairly well.

Balrog: This match gives you the right to turtle… actually… It is encouraged!!! First of all when in close and Rog jumps in at you cr.fierce is your best friend!!! dont do it too early cuz it tend to miss but when he is deep that fierce will hit him in the butt clean. When mid distance the cr.rh seems to catch him like blanks slide, especially when he is attacking. D/B is the name of the game at the moment, he can do it to you and you can do it to him. Knowing his dash punches is the key to victory, with meter this gets a lil easier. His Turn punch can be punished on block at times with the target (though I am not too sure how reliable), if he whiffs cr.rh will not him down. His dash punch is still ex mode/ez safe if you wanna punish that you’re gonna hav to take FA risks. His Dash Uppercut does not hit crouching guy and all versions (ex is a bit strict) can be punished on block with cr.fierce (cr.fierce is a necessity in this match up) His dashing diagonal punch wasnt used much bcuz i wasnt absuing the FA so i dont knwo how it works. His dashing sweep still needs to be tinkered with. His overhead is the reason why you turtle, you can beat it with tatsu (lk is nice because it ensures two hits with lil recovery in comparison) on reaction, of course you can toy around with other punishes on block. This is really a boring match, baiting or focusing headbutts for easy punish, cross ups are tricky you have to really kno the spacing because rog can mash jabs to beat you out of hit, though I had more success with neutral RH amongst anything. Wake up pressure is tricky if he decides to go jab spam as he’ll beat you out (ez mode nonsense) if he doesnt hav meter the usually wake up approach fair well if he doesnt opt to mash. Learning to tech his throws with cr.mp O.S. throw break tends to work well. If you shut down his throw pressure he has only two things he can do: Jump in or dash OH, as explained above close jump ins get eaten up by Guy’s cr.fierce leaving the OH which is dangerous. Avoid slides unless you try mix up, chances are Rog will jus turtle blocking them, leaving you with overheads which he’ll try to beat or trade with his headbutt, thus run stops should be used to make him guess (you will hav to take risks) But fortunately Guy’s run xx OH is safe on block, so use the run to really make him uncomfortable with using his headbutt, chances are he’ll turtle and take the hit and if he learns to block it,it opens up the slide option. Guy still has to take risks, which is why the match up is in rogs favor, luckily when getting pressured if you wish try a reversal lk, if it whiffs (which it wont) you’re open for some more damaging things, but on block rog will probably jab you out of it forcing a reset and pushing you back (unless in corner). Other than that do the damage and run you have to force him to attack you as it will leave his options limited in specific situations.

Fei Long: Not much time against him, his chicken wing is almost useless against guy, because of the start up you know when its coming so if u can avoid blocking just slide under it with cr.rh, i dont know how many times i completely avoided him (looked like a slip ‘n’ slide) Cr.mp/fp, S.mk tend to limit his advancement, this is all about spacing so when you r in range use cr.fierce the spacing it gives you is very nice. Anti-airs are still being looked at. like cammy i go for the avoidance route with the rh slide. Neurtral jump elbow will trade with his DP, so if you’re ahead on life it may be worth the risk especially if he doesnt DP. Beware of jump ins his DP’s vertical rise will catch you so you have to be tricky.bushin pressure seems to work, run xx slide to bait dps etc. Play him similar to cammy except more spacing.

Makoto: I don’t hesitate when i say this is 6-4 Guy when she has U1 and and even better if she has U2. The name of this game is cr.jab pressure especially on wake up nd throws. You can dance around this girl nd punish the tools she has to close space. I say u2 is much easier because its less effective against you pressure game. Karakusas can be grabbed and so can her overhead. I wouldnt worry too much about her axe kick when if she does it on reversal against ur pressure it may whiff or be blocked because of your jabs. bushin flip, target combo, run stop pressure all day just dont get predictable and delay elbows etc, if she tries you ex karakusa on a delayed elbow bushin she’ll likely be grabbed. Beware of the invinc frames on her ex OH. Keep mid-range distance until you feel the need to attack, this will force her to play her hand. But rushing her down is not a bad idea.

Cody: He can be a bit of a nuisance because of his shoto like jump and cross up abilities fortunately he’s a bit limited in what he can do other than pressure when he jump n on wake up. You can see his throws coming for the most part, nd his block strings that end with specials are not safe especially with meter or at leas they give you ample space. I may recommend sliding under him if he gets cross up happy, dont no about the Final Fight “walk under jump” to completely avoid him.

Hakan: Possibly rushdown/pressure free when not oiled up, when oily opt to be more defensive and strike when that oil is gone. One guy felt so pressured he feared oiling up that he never did for an entire match, thats not likely to happen always but pressure when not oily is key.

Are we talking about Guile’s sweep here? You can certainly block the first and focus-dash shenanigans the second. And I was able to focus the first and release my attack before the second, just to check (Not that I would, it is a psychic maneuver).

Focusing Guile’s sweet was a common counter in Vanilla, and from what I can tell it’s still viable…

I’ve tested cody’s c.lp c.mp into L.p criminal upper, I think it’s safe.

You cant punish his lp criminal upper but that move is not safe when you want to keep pressure on Guy it pushes him back nd allows guy to to space himself, so thats what i mean by not safe in regards to moves that arent punishable.