3721

The problem is that the game’s minimum scaling is also changed, so lowering the base damage doesn’t REALLY do anything to Fortune.

A simple sandwich combo that does not kill a 1v3 meterless will kill a 1v2 meterless due to the change in scaling.

Now on the subject of “not using Fortune right”: while it’s all subjective, sandwich loops really ARE the best thing about her. It’s what makes her stand out from others (she removes her head… pretty much her whole schtick), extends combos, gains meter AND sets up for a low/throw reset or ambiguous crossup between every single head hit. But using sandwich combos on Fortune is like using Magneto’s ROM loops: they’re good, they gain meter, they set up reset opportunities to start over and there is basically no reason not to use it. I don’t play Magneto, but I have never seen a Magneto who doesn’t go for at least one variation of the loop for the reasons explained here.

From personal experience: considering that I personally have been testing ways to start sandwiches ever since day 1, it REALLY becomes second nature. This doesn’t mean you should stop IAD j.HK, empty Fiber Uppers and other wonderful tools her insanely awesome neutral game gives you access to. It’s just that: another tool. HOWEVER, when a tool lets you get resets, considering that is the direction the game is heading to begin with, it warrants careful attention.

Now on a slightly personal note: don’t limit yourself. Yes, NOM loops right now is the gaming equivalent of masturbation. But not practicing the non-NOM loops puts you at a disadvantage because you’ll have one less tool to work with. If the situation presents itself where you can get the advantage by hitting HP and continuing, take it. I’m still getting used to the concept of playing to win, but I’m a lot more open-minded now.

That’s why I made these three videos. If you find something that is strong, why not use it? You don’t see Double players not use barrel loops. Valentine players won’t stop doing j.HP shenanigans. Telling a Parasoul player to not use j.HP or do Napalm Shot loops is just as ridiculous. Or asking Peacock players to never use item drop.

So rather than “you’re not using Fortune right”, consider my statement as “you’re not using Fortune to her full potential”. Because that’s exactly what’s happening.

3722

Surely Filia with her wall bounce super.

On a different note; I played around with Painwheel (Sweep)/Double (Slide) and found it to work fairly well. It’s not a powerhouse for neutral, but as soon as they decide to try to block stuff you get mixups for days 5 ways usually.

3723

I finally bought myself a new stick and 360 and have gotten back to playing this after a four month gap. My god it feels good to play this again.

Not exactly Gameplay Discussion, but I just noticed last night that Cerebella’s Vice-Verca arms actually have a bit of depth to them. If player 2 stands right beside player 1 Cerebella they’ll stand in front of the arm furthest from the camera, but behind the rest of character. Whether this was implemented to make it easier to see what player 2 is doing when she stood behind Bella’s massive sprite or just for coolness purposes, it’s a great little piece of attention to detail.

3724

INTERESTING NEW TECH
(pasted from the peacock thread)

Anywho i just found out that peacock and i think ANY character that can chain there jab or short into one another can karacancel that jab or short into throw… This basically means EXTREMELY FAST TICK THROW RESETS. Previously i was mad at peacocks low short not hitting low (it doesnt does it?) which meant that i couldnt use painwheel style mixups with peacock… Reason being that peacock has a double jab so if you try and tick with it fast you will just get the second jab out… So you have to go slow and combine that with peacocks slow throw and you get a very slow easy to jump out of tick.

I first realized that i could just do 2 jabs then throw… Nice, now i CAN do painwheel style reset mixups. But then i found that kara tick throw and YO… that shit is bugged… The throw basically hits if you have perfect timing 1 frame after they come out of hitstun… It very fast yet since its a chained kara throw it can EASILY be done to quickly and made to wiff cause the opponent is still in blockstun. So yes we now have easy access to her lvl3 as well as regular throws… And as far as her lows go, her cr.mk is chainable from her jabs… So you can chain into throw or chain into cr.mk while calling an assist and go into full combo.

I dont know if this was already known but its ridiculously powerful… I havent used it yet but knowing how utterly stupid it is with painwheel i can tell you guys that this shit is nutty good.

This chain kara throw works with painwheel also but not with parasoul so my thinking is that its sort of a bug that may or may not be intended. For instance parasoul cant chain into her mk and then cancel it into a throw… Im thinking its because karas are only available on the light buttons to make sure that you dont have to do 1 frame inputs to geta throw command…

So yeah abuse this shit… Any standing jab in from neutral or in her bnb will be a low/throw opportunity… From neutral i always go for throw… They always work for pw… In resets i mix it up. Anywho sorry if this is known but im gong to copy paste this into the gameplay thread for those that dont know.

-edit… ok so the characters that can do this are:

filia, from all her lp attacks… only one it is really good for is her st.lpx2…as that tick gets made slightly faster with the chain throw.

fortune… doesnt seem that applicable, can do it from her low and stand jabs but her throw range isnt the best and she has no followups without the head as far as i know.

painwheel… from standing jab and crouching jab… not really needed though.

peacock… oh my god… her chain throw is RIDICULOUS… long range plus since the the throw is rather slow she can chain into it faster even on hit and have it still throw…plus she gets free argus or a mixup off her throw… AND a lvl 3 if she wants… this is going to be VERY powerful for her.

val… her chain throw from cr.lp isnt the greatest on hit cause her cr.lp gives alot of hitstun… however her chain throw from st.lp is godlike… much faster than what it was and much faster than any other tick shes got from a normal, plus goes into full combo… this i think will be a staple of vals game once people try it out and see how stupid it is.

double, parasoul, and bella cant do it though bella can chain throw into her command grab of course since it cancels from normals.

so out of the 8 characters in the game it only REALLY buffs 2 of them. with val its going to be stupid though since she has an easy low to chain into from her st.lp as well and her st.lp is a fixture of her combos even later on in them.

-dime

3725

i just tried this with fortune and found that the throw comes out easier if you plink LK~LP after the initial LP. not sure if thats the case with the other characters.

3726

Yep thats the chain throw… Do it faster and it will wiff everytime. I forgot to mention its command which is basically a plink… Though when i stated that it was a kara i thought it was obvious since all karas have to be plinked in one form or another.

So yeah its lp or cr.lp>lk~lp

Though for some really weird reason it works when plinking from lp to lk as well even when there is no second lp possible to kara… Case in point painwheels can be done lp>lp~lk and will still chain cancel…

-dime

3727

Oh man, that’s too sick!

3728

Huh I didn’t know people didn’t know this. I’ve been doing it with valentine forever.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

3729

there are alot of things that people dont know… how you’d think this was a known thing when its never been written about afaik is strange to me… not everyone s a val or peacock player so many might not have the natural process of logical thought actions that occurred when i found out about it, and you did as well… necessity after all.

-dime

3730

Hehheeh I thought it was known because I would have to avoid it online. Also my friend circle uses it alot so I guess I just got used to it.

3731

okay so i dont know whether its cos its online or not (but then the matches werent laggy at all)

but is there something up with filias LP SRK as an assist? multiple times now ive seen it land on top of cerebellas cerecopter assist while it was active and flat out fucking beat it. i thought assists have 2 frames vulnerability when they land?

its really frustrating getting beaten by that thing all the damn time even when i called my assist first.

3732

Wild possible guess without any testing (frame data is incomplete so can’t even check): The individual hits of cerecopter are >2f apart and your opponent got lucky.

3733

I think it’s really tough in general to rely on the 2 vulnerable frames to stop the assist. You’re better off trying to hit or throw the point character before the assist releases to shut it off.

3734

I thought the game added the assists’ invincibility with the actual moves’ invincibility.

3735

If you called your assist first, you will always get beaten cause your invincibility frames will not last as long as the second assist called… In general… This is a staple of invulnerable move play.

-dime

3736

maybe actually read my post next time instead of thinking i am talking about 2 invincible assists versus one another.

well if the assist lands on the ground (hence starting the 2 frames vulnerability) and lands inside cerecopter while it is in its active frames, of which there are about 60, then it shouldnt be getting beaten at all.

assists dont have invincibility frames unless the move itself has invincibility ala HB, NP and updo.

3737

I thought you couldnt hit them until they landed. If the assist moves’ active frames…activate as soon as they touch the ground then isnt there a possibility of trading or getting hit out of your move depending on timing and move priority?

3738

how many times do i need to explain this?

yes you are right that you cant hit an assist till it lands, the point i am making is that if you have a move that is active for 100 frames, assist starts to come in, and now as it has touched the ground it now has a hittable box for 2 frames (even if it is an invincible move) logic would be that it is impossible for the assist to win because it has landed within the active frames of another move.

i wish i could record stuff on this damn game else i wouldnt even bother posting about this sort of stuff.

3739

I DID read your post… Maybe i didnt understand it as ijust read it a second time and it doesnt seem to be saying what the above quoted post os saying… So i quoted that post this time… My only advice would be explain yourself better the first time…

Anywho, what you are saying is technically true… Were the assist dealing with some sort of beam attack… But cerecopter isnt a beam and there for deoesnt hit on all frames and therefor an invincible assist can actually be summoned right in it and and not get wacked.

Then theres also the frameskip thing that probably makes it so that the assist only has 1 on start vulnerable frame instead of 2, once in awhile.

Anywho its just a hypothesis.

-edit… 2nd hypothesis

Ive found in my games both against updo and and playing with it that the assist seems to be harder to stuff than oh say pillar.

So perhaps the moves active hurtbox is low and maybe a significant portion of cerecopter hits somewhat high

-dime

3740

I know what you’re talking about. It’s annoying when I do Argus, Double jumps into the beam and doesn’t get hit. I think it’s because the gap between each hit of the beam is enough that it might not actually hit during those 2 vulnerable frames. I’ve managed to hit her with it before, so it’s a matter of timing. Don’t look at it as a continuous block of active frames, but individual hits at certain intervals of the active period, with enough hit stun to make it all combo.