Remember Separation Anxiety, with all the symbiotes? Pertho’s post made me envision one of them made of semen. So, I reported him.
Fully expect to get this post reported by the Spidermam players.
All three of them
- If i didn’t have an asian wife i would marry Sirlin
- I used to beat up guys during high school who play Magic cards
- All i know is that pretty much all fighting games have gone down hill since SF2.
- More isn’t always better
- Its raining right now & im thinking its Pertho’s semen…
Yup, this is a typical Sirlin thread.
It has:
A.) Sirlin
B.) Sirlin’s haters
C.) Sirlin and his haters each making multiple posts longer than the great wall of China.
So can someone summarize this thread in like 2 sentences?
Companies are shifting from selling full games and are opting to add additional shit to sell like characters, knibs and knobs. This is bleeding into fighting games which is shitty.
The only game I enjoyed paying the extra was the Wangan / Initial D arcade games. Only because, especially on Wangan, you pay like 2 games extra and got a memory card that looked like a baseball card with the car you use and a cool nick name. Other than that, fuck the gem system, and I agree with rcaido, more isn’t better.
Well, Elena and Dudley are fully on the disc - endings and all.
And I am now cancelling my fully paid off pre order.
@Sirlin: What do you think of DLC characters already on disk?
I hope you hate that shit even more than the other crap.
sorry to say this to all the people who find this surprising but Sirling is a system creator DUH, he seems to have dedicated his life to it, so when system customization becomes available to the people Sirling will find it a lot harder to find a market for his creations.
sorry sirling but I don’t agree with you on this, I don’t believe the future of fighting games should be held back for your benefit. the fighting game community is a bundle of regional pyramid scams right now.
years and years ago I said the future of fighting games would lean more towards free expression and it’s happening. no we don’t need a limited system to enjoy a fighting game, I’d like to think humans have more intellectial possiblities and don’t need to be herded by a linear system.
Can I quote this again once the gaming masses realize their “free expression” has just created a faaaaaaaar more “limited system” than the one they wrongfully left behind?
We sure don’t. Did you know that two incredibly popular, deep, complex and which allow for a lot of possibilities in gameplay are closed systems? Did you know that Sirlin really wants to create complete games so that people can just play and explore the ever living shit out of them? Did you also know that the one thing Sirlin really wants to avoid is people getting nickled and dimed before they can get around to sitting down with the game or to get a game and then find out that they have to spend more money than the initial monetary commitment they made?
Fuck a freeform son. Fighting games are deep enough with adding shit on top of them.
Ki Shima, your post is baffling. You seem to think I am against customization of any kind? If SFxT had a billion gems, all of which you got non-randomly and non-grindily (for free, or with an explicit up-front total cost that everyone knows), and which created an amazing metagame with tons of rich variety, that’s great. So you’re arguing a strawman, a thing that no one ever said. 0% of this discussion was about the gameplay of customization, only about how bad it is in competitive games to put gameplay-affecting elements behind a forced grind (even for those willing to pay) or behind a wall of randomness (purely anti-competitive concept, only a money-grab).
If you want to shift the discussion to some completely other topic, yeah customization CAN be bad, or can be good. One problem with it is that it often gives the promise of more options, but ends up with fewer viable options in the end. For example the Yomi card game (sorry even bring it up, blah, it’s just an example though) has 10 different decks, all of which are tournament viable, but with the same number of cards, if it were customizable, probably only like 2 or 3 would have ended up competitive in the end. If customization still ends up with lots of variety, that’s terrific though. Just hard to do.
I have no problem with buying extra characters as a concept btw. I mean it was more work on the developer’s part to make them, so it makes sense they would cost more than $0 to buy them. As long as I don’t have to buy a random pack of characters with a rare Blanka or some offensive nonsense.
Anyway, kind of a lot of hate over what should be the totally straightforward and non-controversial idea booster packs infecting fighting games would be bad and against the sprit of competition where you want your opponent to have non-random, non-grinding access to a game. (Even though customization could be ok). So I guess I’m out. Hasn’t been a very friendly or a very good discussion, unfortunately, so I’m not sure why specs keeps trying.
The point is that trading is not part of the game.
What stops everyone from picking the best character in a fighting game when everyone has the ability to select any character they want?
Hope that answers your question. Also, it’s hilarious that you’re implying giving limited access to the best cards is desirable in a competitive game.
Does that truly mean anything in this type of discussion though…
Authority does not give said authority figure the right to say “it is because I said it is”…
Sirlin designed card games that are successful, he believes that closed games are better, therefore closed games are better(he didn’t do this but still)…
Circular arguments son… educate yoself… the reason you’re saying he is right is wrong…
Damn you spec’s for doing this Sirlin fight round 9999
The thing is, M:TG is not really meant to be competitive. Sirlin’s games are intended to be. It’s like comparing Smash to VF. One is going to sell a whole hell of a lot more, the other is going to be a better game.
There’s demand for both. As long as there is a demand for real honest games (be it in fighters or card games), those games will be made. Even if they’re just the low hanging fruit, a smaller studio will pick it up. The fact VF5FS is being made should be proof of that (and Sirlin, if you’re reading this: even Jaxel said VF makes SC looks like a fraud game- I think you’ll pick this up, and you should. Your card game really resembles VF more then SF to me anyways)
See turn-based strategy games for another example of this (which is my real favorite genre, I’d love to see Sirlin work for a company that would rein him in properly)
there are so many fighting games out there, and there are plenty of people like sirling who prefer and create a closed system. a big company is contributing towards testing out a freer system and all you can do is try to stop it? we’ve had street fighter 4, super street fighter 4, street fighter 3 ng, 2I, 3S. 3SOE, street fighter 2,
I could go on for ages, all these closed systems. we’ve had closed systems for more than 30 years. let there be something different and lets see what happens no?
yes humans need some sort of closed system to help them function right but that doesn’t mean we have to tread on egg shells for the rest of our life, progress often comes from a dramatic change.
SPECS- yes quote it as much as you want :wonder:
Kind of off from the general topic, but I wanna reemphasize that particular point, it’s something I’ve been saying for years.
There’s a constant drumbeat of ‘more options, more freedom!’ but all so often (even most of the time in the case of FG’s), it actually ends up limiting the number of viable options (and choices) players have.
Again of course, unless you’re avoiding being top-level competitive which seems to be the really cool/interesting subtext of this thread.
Edit: Oops, specs totally beat me to saying basically the same thing.
Dammit.
he fully acknowledges that while from a business standpoint, it’s a pretty good idea to generate revenue. but as a competitive player, he simply doesn’t like the idea that you can pay more money to get better options, and i agree with this rationale. it’s never a good look when you can be at a disadvantage in a competitive game because you couldn’t shell out as much cash as somebody else did.
Poker, and any professional sport are an example of competitive games where money is a serious factor. In addition to this, money is even a factor in fighting games if you factor it down enough. The guy who can afford to go to the arcade every night is at an advantage over the kid who can’t. Or idk, what if someone can’t afford an xbox + Sf4? Is it a bad look that he is at a disadvantage to someone who can?
The answer is “no.”
I don’t think you quite understand what they are getting at when it comes down the money issue. In poker tournaments, everybody starts with an equal amount of money. In fighting games, whatever you decided to input commands with is up to you. For the most part there’s not much of a difference between stick so long as they use the same parts. But even then, if you are going to a tournament, you should have practiced everything in the input device of your choice to eliminate that from being a factor.
In M:TG, if you are starting, you may find yourself in situations where you are unable to build the deck you want without a serious investment. The problem with M:TG is assuming that you always need to put a serious investment to do well in tournaments, or that all tournament decks in the game’s history have required a serious investment.