But what about trading?
Trading is a byproduct of the MTG model.
I think it is possible to have a thriving community without trading though
Trading is half the fun…Of course you can have a thriving community without trading just look at Poker. I don’t think anyone can deny this, but things like Trading are a big part of that community and part of the collectible card game experience. You lose both of those when you just give everyone everything when they buy the game.
What stops people from just building decks out of the best cards in Puzzle Strike everyone has everything when they buy it?
There is more to MTG to understand than the commercial aspect of it.
This is an interesting question and I have actually read something that might be pertinent from Sirlin himself exactly. In the article he was talking about how VF was a game about your “second best moves”. If a game is designed well there wouldn’t be a tactic that takes so much prominence that everyone must do it, hence why there are counters to even your “best moves” or cards in this case. If you are expected to use your best every single time, then you know what a smart opponent will go to the counter to beat you and then if you were smart you might change it up to counter the counter which leads into the whole Yomi aspect.
Basically being predictable would make you worse off, if you do something that is too expected.
They could be sold but the fact that they are not creates fun outside of playing the game. Having to figure out how to win is…how can I say this…fun! Just like having to figure out how to win in a fighting game when you can’t do all the combos and other fancy stuff is also fun. Is it shitty that you don’t have access to all of Eddie’s harder execution set ups in GG from the get go? From your point of view it sure is. Does it make you a better player to work your way up? It sure does for a lot of odd reasons. What’s even funny is that working within a budget also makes you look harder at a lot of cards. So you find a lot of really, really good decks because you didn’t go drop some money on tier 1 stuff. At no time have I said that they couldn’t do things in a different way. I said they won’t do it. I have also praised the choices you have made because it is cheaper than playing magic.Stop being a fucking twat, understand that no matter how much you try to force the issue M:TG will not chance to suit what you want and you’ll be insanely happier for it.
What people in this site need to do is stop going to M:TG as an analogy for Gems. Pay to win in M:TG is fucking overhyped as all fuck. There have been dirt cheap decks that were top tier as well as expensive decks that were top tier. Most of you fuckers probably haven’t spent a lot of time playing magic enough to say “oh shi- I need to spend 10,000,000 dollars to compete.”
Fighting games are a cheap hobby and it is great that you get the whole of the game in one purchase. I got way less interest in Blazblue when they decided to do 3 characters as DLC because I liked 2 of them. On more time: I like what Sirlin is doing with his game, but it is fucking different than M:TG. Listen to fucking Clu 2, leave me the fuck alone because your collective reading comprehension has gone to shit since the name Sirlin got brought up.
M:TG do not equal Fighting Games.
Sirlin does not like CCG games business mode.
CCG model, or selling any vital piece of a fighting game separately is bad for us because we have to spend more and then we have to give people more instructions on what they need to get into the scene.
Sirlin should spend more time promoting his business than replying to shit in SRK. Because regardless of this thread I still think he is probably a swell guy and his games look fun.
If any of you fuckers decided to twist my fucking words again I will shoot my semen into the sky like the nuclear arsenal of the U.S. and all of your faces will be covered with my million spider semen demons that will eat your souls.
It totally is, but it is a great ice breaker and it really helps you meet a lot of people. Trading is fun. But whatever for the most part. This community stuff that’s good which to outsiders seem retarded. Outsiders like Sirlin who hate the game. You know who else gets hate for shit other people don’t understand? The FGC for talking shit even though it isn’t half as bad as people make it out to be and really positive for the community overall.
Makes sense. I think building games with options by basing it on match up type logic tends to be the best way to go about it.
Nothing actually! The point of puzzle strike the game is to use the resources you start the game to build the best deck and defeat your opponent
So there’s a lot more to it then just the cards then? How much in common with trading card games is Puzzle Strike, I’ve only played Yomi.
Funny thing about us competitive magic players. We read a lot. We research a lot. At any point in time, comparing a competitive M:TG player of the same experience to one from the FGC will show the M:TG player understanding his game fundamentally more than the fighting game player.We will also know more about it than the FGC player. There are different reasons for it, one of them being the physical aspects of the game and whatnot but we go fuuuuuuuuuucking hard in competitive M:TG. So I assure you that being in M:TG is like being a stock broker, a master’s student doing research and a cutthroat business man at once.
The difference between M:TG players and FGC players is that: A) Wizards of the Coast hires professional M:TG players to work on the game, 2) We understand that Wizards makes a lot of bad decisions and they are more than willing to swing the cock down our throats, 3) At the end of the day we make the decision to keep playing or stop playing. The problem with the FGC is that: 1) They will buy the game, 2) They haven’t accepted that they are going to swallow the cock, 3) At the end of the day they more or less play.
The moment that SFxT was found out to have Gems, we should have boycotted the ever living fuck out of it. Blazblue CS, I should’ve boycotted over the DLC but whatever, its ArcSys and I’m gonna get my PS3 version of GG anyway. Cats out of the bag, SFxT is in Evo, people are spending money on it and we fucked up.
The question now is: How long are we going to gag on that dick?
Puzzle Strike is pretty much Dominion/Ascension/Thunderstone/pick a deck-building game. (And before anyone says “BUT IT HAS DIFFERENT STARTING CONDITIONS!”, I know. I just stated the genre.)
Is puzzle strike the one with the pogs (or circle things)? If it is I think I played online with someone using some makeshift interface with just a board and something to shuffle them. But I believe the only thing you do is choose a character who has their own set of circles, then as the game goes on you gain resource like an rts (at least that was the analogy) and you use that to build upon a combo to inflict on your opponent.
This is a sig worthy quote.
I haven’t played puzzle strike, but yeah its the one with the pogs.
I know the expansion is better thought of than the original.
also!
oops eaty (sorry for double, SRK doesn’t like my account, making things like… editing almost impossible)
First of all, when you’re talking about these big-scale things, genres as disperate as fighting games and perfect-knowledge board games (say like chess) are more similar than not. There are whole sets of theories set up to work out how games work and are fun, and they pretty much apply off the board.
Second, I have 2 interesting examples of ‘open systems’ in Fighting games.
First is MvC3 H&H mode. It’s silly, its fun, its awesome, it’s free, and its absolutely incompatible with serious tournament play.
Second is SFxT gems. It’s nearly meaningless, its (apparently) expensive, and its designed to work with tournament play.
One of these open frameworks is great, the other is terrible. The key is once again making them competitive play friendly.
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Now that I think of it, we’re totally back to #esports again. Is there NOTHING that shit won’t ruin?
So I’m thinking maybe it’s not a good idea to pull the whole “an equally experienced player of my community is better than yours” card. It’s a bad idea, because whether right or wrong – and whether wrong because the other player knows more or wrong because the knowledge possessed is more or less equal – that’s going to help precisely nobody here. And I’ll say again: the experience, the background, that’s a great basis for argument but it’s never the argument.
That out of the way, I know many CCG devs, Wizards and Upper Deck and whatnot, hire the best players to work on the game. That has pros and cons, as being a great player at something doesn’t necessarily mean you truly know what’s best for the depth and competitive design of that something – and may (though not definitely) mean said player is inclined to look at things not from a design perspective, but a “playing to win” perspective, which isn’t always conducive to sound design. I also know CCG players can get vocal about changes, and this has prompted devs to change ban lists and erratas and whatnot.
Hey, great. That’s something I wish the fighting game community did with SFxT, and I agree it would have been nice to see a boycott. Not sure that would work, though; even if there were enough players on board, Japanese devs are notoriously hardheaded when it comes to receiving and incorporating meaningful feedback. Blizzard has its problems, but their devs talk about design changes and the reasoning behind them (sound or not) in depth. HDR has its fans and its haters, but Sirlin typed out the reasoning behind every change he made. You’ll never get that from most Japanese devs, or you’ll get something roundabout and non-committal/nonsensical, with no channel to express concern.
I’m a tad more optimistic than Sirlin about one thing though: the closed system type games, they’ll never be “done.” They’ll have their lows, their eventual resurgences, their lows again, etc. There will probably be an Extra Credits ep or two about this lol. (And likely a MovieBob Game Overthinker, but it will be shitty as always.) It just sucks that their merits are being swallowed up by 1) big business interests and 2) players mistakenly thinking more means better. It’s a sad state.
Yo for real? Do you hate Moviebob too? :wow:
As a human being? No.
As a film and comic/geek chic reviewer? No.
As a game analyst/commentator? Yes. A thousand times yes.
Yeah he sorta has no business doing that 
I imagine two possible dystopias:
- You can’t beat Dhalsim because his level 6 stretchy arms go through your level 4 fireballs.
- You can’t beat Dhalsim because you messed up step 46-b in chapter three of the official ryu/dhalsim match up guide.