Ok, first thing: Everyone shit on everyone else’s games, even back then. Somewhere in this thread or another, DevilJin even responded to Azrael about it how back in the day everyone shit on everyone about every game.
Second, I’ve been here since 06, and 3s ALWAYS catches the most shit, hands down. Like I said before, bash ST get flamed, bash MvC2 get flamed, bash 3s and you get auto-OG respect status. Seriously if you didn’t have premium and you even hinted at liking 3s when the rep system was around, instant red with insults all over your control panel.
Third, new games are just… shallow to the older players. It may be deep to the newer people, or people who were never good at the previous games, but even the 5ft end of the pool is deep for those who are short or can’t seem to stand in water.
Tier list dont matter in the beginning, I own all these noobs/scrubs with just Sean alone who is by the way the lowest tier character in the game. By the time you get to high level play, you probably dont want to change the game anymore.
Ok, this is more a response to your last paragraph, and it’s not directed at you per say. Let me get this out there: I am not OG. I am a 2010 member, and I got into the FGC starting with fucking SMASH back in 08. I am aware of how new I am to everything, and I will not claim to know the ins and outs of every fighter to the point of being an expert. I know what I am, and I’m comfortable with that.
But god damnit, I AM confident in my ability to see quality when it’s right in front of me, and I’m positive that many other new players are too. Just because we don’t have almost a decade of experience with the OG, doesnt make our opinions invalid. Yes, you shouldn’t take most new player’s opinions as fact, and there is an air of naivety to us, but most of us aren’t stupid, and a lot of us are fast learners.
I’m not trying to be combative, and I’m sorry if I come across that way with this post, but I needed to get that out there.
Mr.X: I already said it was just fine as a port, I presume you just don’t read all the posts. The big problem here is the FGC takes games being unfixed in general as a virtue. 3SO didn’t matter to patch because its not going to be anything but a nostalgia game, or a quick novelty for the younguns. People not wanting SF4 or Marvel fixed, *that’s *the problem.
These days? Trust me, that attitude existed back in the day also. I saw it in the arcades in the 90’s, I see it today. No difference. The difference is back then the kids had peashooters, now they have rocket launchers. The mentality wasn’t different, it’s just back then it was adapt or leave, now there are other options. Online play is the equivalent of infinite arcade machines.
The only way to prevent/weaken that attitude is by doing the one thing that scares the degenerate crowd: balancing a game out so that such tactics are as ineffective as possible.
As for pros breaking down the raw tech, they do that faster also, and those that want to learn will. If anything, back in the old days, it was easier for a pro to keep things in the pocket.
As for the easy money, that’s even more reason to fix things, not a reason to avoid fixing things. When money gets involved competitive standards have to be raised, the Dark Age 2000 mentality doesn’t need to be championed in 2011.
Also, you don’t need perfect understanding of balance to know when something is massively overpowered, such as Genei-Jin (pick your game on that one).
A high level of understanding is needed for more subtle things, but those take time to develop, and can always be adjusted for later- you can patch repeatedly if necessary- it’s not like we’re dependent on arcade machines and retail distribution anymore.
And if Capcom decides to stay in the Dark Ages, I can play KOF.
Why does anyone even listen to this guy? I actually argued with him on his talkinator when he was like “input throws should go away”. A week later he lets someone record him saying this bullshit and everyone shut him down. Sirlin will always talk shit about any sf game that he doesn’t play, especially 3s.
The piece he quoted of Haunts is saying something around “do they rebalance 3SOE and make it a different game and risk splintering the 3S community or do they leave it alone” while Haunts acknowledges the game is unbalanced.
Sirlin rants that wanting an arcade perfect port on modern console with good netcode is bad because the game is bad
laughs at the idea that rebalancing might make it inferior because anything is better that arcade Third Strike
and then says this about wanting an arcade perfect port
What he doesn’t acknowledge is that in current fighters, the people against adjustments, patches and balancing are the minority. It’s why he used Street Fighter III: Third Strike Online Edition and the people that wanted it to be arcade perfect to demonize as “Anti-Progress” for his article and then goes on to say in a new article what he would’ve done as a “love letter”.** He’s jumping to the conclusion that because we don’t want Third Strike to be changed, that we are against change period.**
When Guilty Gear XX released in 2002, Aksys didn’t step away from the game for 10+ years and when they did “adjust” it, it wasn’t just playing with the values and properties of moves, they added new things like characters, systems, moves. This is what we want for SF3! We want a 4th installment in the Street Fighter III series not a play with the numbers to make 3rd Strike different release.
I said twice now that for new games, this mindset is the minority.
Is this a rhetorical question? If not, then yes. All of that would have been found, especially easy-shit AHVB. Games today are not only easier to play, but the YouTube generation that is now makes info faaaar easier to spread. It used to be that you didn’t see new shit until you saw a .wmv or .mpg of tourney footage of the toppest top players. Now, any random forum scholar/specialist who’s never been to a tourney can show some new thing he found on YouTube, and it makes EventHubs homepage, which then shows up on Kotaku.
HDR was more balanced than ST. But it wasn’t as fun as ST for me. Seeing T.Hawk just spam hawk dive simply because he can and it’s safe on block and if he gets hit out of it, that’s okay, because he can continue to spam it to get in close. Lets give Fei a really good chicken wing, just spam it ti’ll works. That seems to be Sirlin’s mentality on rebalancing.
Anyways, you guys are lucky 3S didn’t get a rebalancing, it would have just split the community the same way ST got split. Sirlin was never a fan of 3S, he’s always ranted about the lack of zoning in that game and honestly who cares if it isn’t balanced. Balanced games are not always fun. It’s fun to be the underdog.
You’re assuming things that aren’t there and are attributing malicious intent that isn’t there. xesaie summed up Sirlin’s argument pretty well in his post and just because Sirlin used a particular game to centralize his criticism does not make the argument invalid. It is also irrelevant if you believe the people he is arguing against are a minority.
