He gave Honda a headbutt that breaks fireballs
I don’t think more needs to be said
Ima give you the benefit of a doubt here but it sounds like youre implying that people dont even play anyone besides CYK
I can empathize with the lack of an Ignore list; I made good use of it.
That out of the way, eat shit. I didn’t post to increase my count; I posted to agree with someone who made a really good point – one yet to be refuted, in fact. I didn’t insult anyone with it.
Here’s an alternative to Ignore lists: when you see “specs,” don’t read the post. It’s what I do anytime I see “Shin Akuma.” Works wonders.
You’re only right on 1: Ken. The rest are Ryu and Alex. This is from playing the past 2 days.
its not like 1 million new players will jump onto 3so so give the hardcore fans what they want. are yun\chun bullshit characters, YES! could 3so be a better game with a rebalance, easily but the game is only here right now because of the hardcore fan base for the series. The people who cry about the balance aren’t the ones keeping the game alive so fuck those guys.
Isn’t this the same person who said that Faust’s item summon move in Guilty Gear is the exact same thing as random item spawns in Super Smash Bros.?
Isn’t this the same person who wanted to put a “Rewind Gauge” into Street Fighter IV to turn it into Prince of Persia?
Isn’t this the same person who tried to “rebalance” chess of all goddamn things?
Isn’t this the same person who’s probably the most undeservingly egomaniacal human being on the planet?
Isn’t this the same person who should stay as free as he’s always been?
Personally I picked up fighting games when SSFIV came out, and I’m pretty competitive on it now. Since I joined SRK and the FGC though, I’ve heard a heck of a lot that 3s is the pinnacle of it all, and that the IV series doesn’t compare.
Knowing full well about all of the massive imbalance in the game, I have been eager as fuck to start learning about 3s as it is, and as it has been for the last what, 11 years?
Regardless, the people who the balance, tiers and matchups in the game matters to are the people who have been playing it for years. Even though I’m good at SFIV, the balance in 3s doesn’t make the slightest ounce of difference to me because I’m stood looking up at a long hard path of learning a game which plays so fundamentally different to what I’m used to, that regardless of character choice for me and my opponent, I’m going to get raped by anyone who has any idea what they’re doing. And I’m perfectly happy with that, because I want to discover for myself why so many people herald it as the best game, whether I agree with them or not once I get there.
By extension, casual players don’t have the slightest clue what’s going on, and while a lot of them may take a stab at the game’s balance before slinking back to more user friendly games and experiences, it’s only a defense mechanism to prevent the idea that they suck from entering their mind.
The people who wanted 3s the whole time never wanted a rebalanced 3s, because after 10+ years that would be a different game altogether. Despite flaws which people say it has, a game that is from a previous, very different generation and succeeded so reputably in it, doesn’t need touching, and that’s the beauty of it.
The article was an interesting read, but who is it aimed at? People who’ve played and loved 3s for years, love it and will disagree. People who’ve hated it for years will have their own reasons for agreeing. People like me will just want to experience 3s as it is, rather than a rebalanced version. Casual gamers just wanna jump around and throw fireballs and punches with flames and shit and will probably never read the article anyhow. It wasn’t like he was presenting arguments for and against though, it was pretty much biased throughout.
No, the balance would have just been mixed around 4 times (with the most horrible, crowd-pleasing changes possible) faster than people would even have a chance to get a real grasp on the first version.
Here’s another thing, 5 is plenty. I recall wrote in an article for sonic hurricane that, based on what people have been playing at tournaments, a top tier of 4, as long as they’re fun and interesting to play is fine. 5 viable characters gives us 15 possible matchups already.
The point he made about item spawns in Melee aren’t even true; items spawns are not random which item that will spawn is.
And that has nothing to do with whether or not 3S is balanced.
He could have claimed that Serpentor invented pizza and it wouldn’t have anything to do with the truth value of his claims about 3S. Hence the fallacy of ad hominem.
Yes I know I was further assisting your point.
I misread that. My bizzad.
“I know 3s players from all over the world, and the smart ones understand the game isn’t well balanced, but they like it the way it is.” - PHERAI
I love you Pherai
If they made a 4th version of 3rd’s strike engine id play it. just leave 3s alone. some people see 3S, they like how it looks, sounds, plays etc but have such a hard on for rebalance its crazy. the next few SF games are gonna cater to all the rebalance needs players new and old will want so honestly i dont get all the “change 3S” sermons
I think he was talking about Brawl in that particular instance. I’m not sure if the item spawns in that game are any different.**
It’s exactly the same and works exactly the same as Faust’s item spawning move in GG; the move isn’t random but the items that come out are. Instead in Smash Bros items spawn in specific parts of the stage at certain rates. He made himself look like a silly trying to prove where Sirlin is wrong with an ad hominen filled attack which already made him look silly.
wait chuns only counter pick is…chun???..Fuck.
I honestly don’t know why anyone pays any attention to David Sirlin anymore. Regardless of his argument on 3rd Strike (which I’ll get to in a moment), his behavior, the language he uses when addressing things he believes to be inferior, and his overall demeanor are all indicative of a delusional man who thinks all of his ideas are the “obvious best,” and anyone who disagrees would have to be wrong. One time I asked him why Dee Jay’s MGU in HDR destroys fireballs. There is no point to it whatsoever. The one situation he named in which it was useful (MGU a fireball then throw a Max Out in response) is moot, because neutral jump jab already did that. His counter argument? “Well, it didn’t hurt him, so whatever.” Wow, really? “I changed something for NO REASON. IT’S FINE.” I also asked him why he nerfed Chun in HDR, but his response was practically unbelievable, so I’ll save that one for another time…
As for his argument about rebalancing (or not) 3rd Strike: I can see why he, someone who dislikes 3rd Strike to begin with, would like to see it rebalanced. My curiosity is why he cares, considering he mocks the game’s system entirely (when he mentions parrying and the lack of zoning, etc.), but I digress; I think he is operating under the assumption that more balanced games = better games. While I can see why some people would have this mentality, I completely disagree with it. I personally believe that good competitive games require two things: SOME imbalance (not so much as to make the game broken) and SOME randomness. Let me explain. To use a Starcraft example, seeing as they’re all the rage these days, in Brood War, TvZ early game is incredibly tough. You have to have insane execution (APM) if you are going to fight the first lurkers that come out before your first 2 tanks are finished producing. You have to dodge the spines VERY precisely (some pros say it’s nearly impossible on Battle.net and can only be done consistently on LAN–if you know much about SCBW, you’d know that they aren’t that different; that’s the level of precision we’re talking about here). If your first couple groups of MnMs (Marines 'n Medics) don’t survive, you get rolled. So what this comes down to is overcoming a very difficult (and arguably imbalanced) situation in order to survive long term so you can eventually win in a balanced game. I’m not saying 3rd Strike is balanced by any means–in fact, I’d say it’s definitely outside of that realm of “some imbalance” I think is necessary in any game–but the game CAN be won against the odds, just like any other fighting/strategy/whatever game. The point I was illustrating with the Starcraft example was that even SCBW has some imbalance. It’s just very situational, and you have to overcome a huge skill barrier to make it balanced. The same could be said of a lot of fighting games, to a point. Komoda Blanka has definitely overcome the imbalance he’s faced with by using Blanka. If you asked him how he felt about using such an underwhelming character, how he overcame the difficulty of doing so, etc., he’d probably say something like “Well, Blanka isn’t that bad. You just have to have good reads and a very solid understanding of all of his matchups in order to win with consistency.” Some people say Komoda plays “randomly” (similar to the “ume shoryu” argument), but then you’d have to question how he wins so consistently (he consistently does well in Japan). Komoda has overcome the early game TvZ. He survived the storm, he knows what he needs to know now, and he has brought balance to an imbalanced situation. I mean, for fuck’s sake, he OCV’d yaya (best Sagat in japan)/Aniken (best Ken in Japan)/Daigo (arguably best Ryu in Japan) with Blanka. Obviously game balance isn’t an issue. The problem comes when a game is so imbalanced that you can’t overcome its imbalanced parts. You can’t make up for it. I think 3S may almost be at this point, but not quite. That’s just my opinion though.
In summary, I can see why Sirlin would feel the way he does (despite being a complete egomaniac/crazyman/chess rebalancer), but I disagree for reasons mentioned above.
This is a good thread, but I just want to add three points to this dicussion.
1.) I don’t agree with Sirlin, and I’m definitely not defending him but I don’t think he’s trolling us with his post. He’s asking a legitimate question, “How the heck is 3s supposed to survive long without a rebalance?”. And this my sound like a cop out reason but the game will survive because it’s a really fun game to play. Sirlin’s main problem is that he doesn’t understand the concept of what it means to have fun in fighting games. Yes, SF4 is more popular and way more balanced, and even more tournament viable, but a lot of people think that SF4 is also extremely boring and prefer games like 3S with crazy Daigo parry skill level.
2.) Haunts, you’re a awesome player and we all love you, but let’s face it, your review of 3S was absolutely terrible. It basically read like this, “Yeah I know 3S is totally unbalanced game, and Capcom had an opportunity to rebalance it, but they didn’t, but you should still pay $15 because it’s fun.” I understand that you wanted to keep the review short, but you could have done a much better job explaining why this game was good. You could have promoted the parry system, and a roster filled with iconic characters still unrepresented outside of this game, etc. I’m not surprised Sirlin called you out for it.
3.) The last thing I’m gonna mention is that the honeymoon for this game is officially over. I’m happy to have this game back, but I’m not happy to see these rebalance Chun and Yun threads again. Make no mistake the very second another person hosts a tournament, Chun/Yun are going to win it and this thread will reopen back up. We will troll each other about it this same issue for another 10 years (if the revival lasts that long). I can understand why now this game is going to stay in the fighting game discussion forum, away from prying eyes.