and…
Just so you see that you were not forgotten about! :woot:
:looney:
Ok so I miss this thread, so I’m going to try and get the ball a rollin’ so to speak.
How do you play against Ryu and Ken? I cant fireball much because thats an automatic hurricane kick --> knockdown. Also I noticed that people keep trying to cross me up and combo into the super. Do I B+jab/B+MP, or is walking under the cross up attempt better… or do I do a slide (and if so, when and which kick button?). Another thing, I know slide beats jump if theyre dumb enough to jump from far away, but what about if theyre jump in close (but not close enough to where they actually do a cross up). What anti ari should I use? I hear Ryu is supposed to have trouble vs Sim, but Ken gives Sim trouble (Old or New Ken?). Is this true at all (or not), and why? In either event, I have no idea what my game plan is. so umm… help?
Those are two very big questions (Ryu and Ken). From a distance they seemed to be played in very similar manners. However, there are nuances in the characters that cause the matches to be play differently.
We can work on both, but who would you like to hear about first?
IMHO, I think Ken is a harder match up (juice kick, Knee bash, better DP) until Ryu get his super, then the Ryu threat goes up a whole level (can take ~50% life off anywhere on screen).
Well, since Ryu completely owned me, I suppose its best to start with him. I’m all ears.
Also, when you say he can take off ~50% life anywhere on the screen, could you elaborate on that? (as in the ways he could do this)
OK, I should rephrase… Damn near anywhere on screen. Ryu has the only super projectile in the game. If you get lulled into sticking yoga fires, flames, and big limbs out, and Ryu is waiting or anticipating, you?re eating a super fireball. 5 hits @ 10% per hit = 50% life bar (YBH).
Not to mention if your jumping and drilling to much your going to eat a jp.mp x3 + 2 hit SFB for 41%-53% of your life bar (YBH). (15+3+15 (or 3) +10+10)= 41 0r 53%
Ok before I get into the in depth strategy. There are a couple of misc. things I want to point out that I don’t want to forget. They are just little tid bits to know in the match that really help me out.
Ryu’s one hit jab DP can almost always be hit with a St.Mk after a block.
Ryu’s fire balls do the same amount of life as Sim’s St.Rh: 12%, 13%, and 13% vs. 13%. So, don’t be afraid to exchange if you have a lead in life.
Sim’s strong and fierce fireballs ALWAYS knockdown, Ryu’s red fireball does not.
Sim’s most damaging normals are his jp. fierce & round house (15%). Try your best to find places to use the in game play, the extra bit of life helps.
Learn your counters… There can be a whole post on this… I need to leave something for you to learn but here are a few:
Jump attacks:
[LIST]
[*]St. LP
[]Slide> MK
[]Slide>HK
[*]Slide> Throw
[*]HK Slide.
[*]Far Cr. punch.
[]C/U slide> Mk x2
[]C/U slide> Fierce (2 hit for dizzy)
[*]C/U slide> cr.mk > Throw
[/LIST]
Honestly, unless I am anticpating a jump, I rarely use St. Rh as an AA.
Close jumps /Cross Ups:
[LIST]
[*]Back St. Strong
[*]Jump Back Fierce.
[*]LK Yoga Blast
[/LIST]
Forward & Round House HK’s:
[LIST]
[*]Block >duck > Stand to B+ Fierce (one Hit)
[*]Jump up/back fierce (most damaging option)
[/LIST]
Noogie can’t be tech’d
Yoga flame leaves you at a +1 Frame advantage on block. If you are full throw distance away with a corner trapped Ryu, and Ryu does not reversal DP/Super out of block stun, Sim can grab him before any normal comes out. (if timed properly).
Watch for Psychic DP’s: Don’t slide too much, or stick out to many limbs in an obvious manner. Many solid Ryu players do not have this skill. However, some (very few) seem to read you f*cking mind the whole match (i.e. Alex Valle, Afro Legends) and upper cut every move you do.
Learn to double pump… Just like a QB pumps the football to draw the defense, you’d be amazed what adding a little, down > down, adds to Sim’s game play.
-
It forces the opponent (P-DPers) to slow down and hesitate; it only takes one or two hits to punish a whiffed DP, to get them to slow down. This allows Sim to play his distance/pressure game.
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It fakes out for a fireball; some less experienced players look for this and jump in to try to read a fireball. You slide> combo/throw them as an anti air.
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Others will think it is is a FB and will try and Hurricane Kick you. Again, you just counter as appropriate.
OK I will write more tomorow… It is late here and I am off to bed!
You just left me an entire post’s worth of info to learn !
Good stuff… all of it.
Yea, usually when people try to jump in, I tend to rely on either b+MP, b+jab, or b+MK. I really need to start using j./j.b.+HP more, though this probably has to be done at a certain distance because of Sim’s slow floaty jump.
There is another situation that is rather ambiguous: So lets say Ryu catches on and knows when you are going to use your limbs (and so he psychic DPs consistently). Further, lets say that he doesnt jump at you, but decides to walk towards you on the ground. If you use limbs/drill, he DPs you; if you fireball, he HKs you; if you do nothing, you get thrown. So… what do you do lol
I’m also looking forward to your in-depth strategy for this match up
Let’s just breakdown the first sentence of your hypothetical situation. You’re supposing that Ryu is in your head and DPing every poke you throw out. I can hear CvS2 Geese Howard screaming, “PREDICTABLE!!! HMPH!!”
If you’re getting your pokes DPed, you’re being predictable. Straight up. While it may be possible to DP far standing fierce, far crouching fierce, and far standing roundhouse on reaction (most likely, if you’re looking for it), most of Sim’s medium pokes are too fast to DP on reaction. (Far standing strong is a little more obvious than the rest.)
Anyway, what am I trying to say? The answer to the psychic DP is…unpsych your opponent. Play mind games. Do fakes. Bait DPs by whiffing pokes just outside of his DP range. If he bites and you get him to whiff a DP, you can likely repeat the medium attack you whiffed to punish. Also, like Fatboy said, don’t forget to fake Yoga Fire attempts. Tap down twice. Tap down and press jab. Since Yoga Fire is the slowest starting projectile in the game, many players are just itching to punish you with a jumping attack for throwing one. Fake and punish appropriately.
Also, provided that Ryu is outside of his jumping attack range and effective Hurricane Kick range, throw a jab Yoga Fire out there. He’ll have to respond to it somehow. The only way he can respond safely is to either block it or throw a Hadouken. If he decides to throw the Hadouken to late after you’ve thrown out a Yoga Fire, you’ll be able to hit him before he recovers. If he HKs or jumps, he’s open. If he somehow gets so flustered that he actually eats the jab Yoga Fire while standing on the ground, feel free to tag on another poke for your free 2 hit combo.
If you’re within his jumping range, you’re really going to have to fake him. Don’t forget, however, that you have one of the deadliest weapons in the game…the noogie! At that point, whatever he gives you…make sure to take it. Don’t forget about the df+forward kick slide to noogie tick.
How do you stop Honda’s cross up butt smash, or better yet, any butt splash thats close enough to where I cant just jump back and FP it. Is there any way I can hit it on Honda’s way down while Im on the ground? What about if he tries repeated cross up butt smashes?
I just teleport if I have the time. Gets me across the screen and out of the corner. Honda is sooo easy to keep out (granted, I don’t play very skilled hondas) that you shouldn’t even have to do that too many times. I’m not sure but you can probably HK slide him when he lands. Worst comes to worst your c.mk comes out faster than his stuff, toss one or two of those out to get him pushed out when he lands.
I dont think you can HK slide him when he lands. I get butt stomped whenever I do.
I dunno. I actually find really good Hondas kind of tough to keep out consistently. Scrubby ones are pretty easy, but the good ones know when to trade moves for a knockdown and how to fake you out to close in. And the HHS can really help him, if they know when/how to use it right.
Anyway, Warrior’s Dreams, I assume you’re talking about his Sumo Splash and not his regular jump butt/splash moves, right? If so, yeah that’s a tricky one to counter consistently(at least for me). If he leave you a lot of space, you can use your up flame, slide out of the way, teleport, etc. But if he doesn’t leave you much space/time then it get’s trickier.
I *think *that standing back + MP(Where sim swats his arm up into the air) is the best move to use here. But I personally find the timing to be tough. It also kind of depends on the spacing. If he’s right on top of you then I think that move is the way to go. However, if he flies up so that he comes down a little in front of you then standing LP may work better.
I’d love to hear what other Sim players think about this one since it vexes me too.
As far as I know (not very much – I tend to get slaughtered by good Hondas), that works as long as he isn’t in too deeply:
The problem is that you need crazy ninja reflexes to do this on reaction, and if you’re a little late, you get a hit trade that favors him heavily and you eat a fat knockdown to boot. So I can’t really do this counter, but it is possible.
^
That picture is wrong on so many levels.
Raisin GREAT POST! They are some of the best on SRK!
I have been chewing on how to reply to the “butt” question.
Your answer was spot on.
I have found that you have to hit the strong a bit early. Relatively speaking is stays out for a while… 9 Frames! But the butt moves SO fast, that if you try to do it with the timing you would use against other aerial attacks that it hits you in your start up.
Think of it this way, try to have Honda land on the extended arm as opposed to hitting Honda with an extended arm… Does that make sense?
“Butt,” to be honest teleport your ‘ass’ out of there… it is hard but can be done!
Something that I’m uncertain about: doesnt Sim have a glitch where if he does teleport as a reversal, he reappears in the same spot he was in? So if Honda was doing his tick->Sumo Splash, wouldnt this occur?
^^ Yes. The only reason why you would ever want to use this move is basically negated by a bug.
And the Most reliable anti-airs against Honda are b+jab, yoga blast and super. I honestly wouldn’t bother with the other ones, they’ll get you killed.
Not all the time. That depends on so much. IMHO you have to try something to get out of there.
The Butt > back Jab
The Butt> Up flame (comes out to slow)
The Butt (MK) 50/50 or better > Jump Back Fierce & B. MP
Doesn’t leave you many options to get out of the corner, other then not getting in the corner… or at least try to teleport. You can get out, it doesn’t always glitch out. Watch the Cole video on CigarBob’s 3v3 Evo 05 tourny against Chikyuu’s Hawk.
Ex. special thanks to CigarBob for uping those on Youtube!
^^I still say teleport is an iffy proposition at best, even though it is his only reversal option.
Agreed. I’d try for a lk up flame and hope to get a reversal out of it. Also, if they get too predictable, sometimes sliding at them when the standing animation of the sumo splash is beginning will end up knocking them down… or was it when they were doing the head butt? … I forget