Any pros can give a detailed explanation as to why sim vs o got is the worse match up in the game? 9 to 1 from what street fighter dojo says. I’m sure its accurate, my imagination just can’t come up with why gat gets beat up so bad. SFdojo doesn’t have many videos to go by. Please feel free to be as detailed as possible, I want to play this match to the point where its painful to watch and the gat player stops half way into the game and just goes home. Thanks in advance.
u should ask HYDLIDE 
Yeah I never understood that either. I mean yeah Sim has an advantage, but 9-1? IDK bout that… Cuz if O.Gat is 1-9, then N.Gat must be -5-15 amirite? lol
O.Sagat vs sim is not 1-9, that value is for N.sagat. O.gat vs Sim would be something like 3-7. I heard that sims j.forward beating gats uppercut is one of the most annoying things in that matchup. But i dont know dhalsim nor sagat so dont take my statements too seriously.
It beats the TU if you react to it. If you predict it, it beats or trades it - trade is almost a misleading word here: it is way in O.Sagat’s favor. The rating Sergio gave is, IMO, at worst: it is probably around 3.5 or 4. As Ganelon showed last year or something, Gian showed relief when he learned people in the US would never use O.Sagat vs Dhalsim, so it is probably not worse than using other shotos.
The question here is not if its bad or not. This is a bad match. The few videos that are on sfdojo, tarra and yaya get beat up pretty bad. So lets not get off topic.
What we need to talk about is how they are getting beat, all the details so that I can beat sagat players up that bad as well. We need to discuss what to look for in this match up to take full advantage of all sims strengths, and what to avoid.
Opening moves, spacing, anti airs, ways to trap gat, buttons to counter each of gats moves. This type of discussion.
I think the most annoying thing in that matchup for ogat is the fact that sim can just drill tiger shots on reaction easily. Sagat cannot jump at sim either because LK slide beats every air normal sagat does.
Mummy or short drill on reaction to low tigers, cr.whatever on high tigers*, and the usual anti-air stuff if Sagat jumps. The jumping forward is dangerous, it is not recommended. Reacting to the projectiles is not that easy: they are very fast and if you fall for a feint, you lose ~30% of your health and risk getting dizzied (st.short into throw or any special, cr.short into jab TU or throw).
O.Sagat’s tigers will wear you down. Yoga fires and flames should get him into a spamming mood, then you can just mummy/drill with less risk from there. He can never jump on good Dhalsims.
Noggie trap = no; fake noggie trap into super = ok.
Yaya uses N.Sagat. It can not be compared to O.Sagat. The trades and recovery on projectiles are much different. As for Gian vs Muneo, there is a gap in player skill there, and Muneo made mistakes.
I’d just pick Vega if the idea is to counterpick O.Sagat, unless you already know Dhalsim.
*From a distance, slide into a punish move works if you react fast.
Whats the correct distance for Yoga Flame trap on Honda and Dictator ? Can Honda get out of it with Jab HHS ?
[media=youtube]qSwsL7tTO8k[/media]
At about the 1:34 mark
Yeah, I remember Cole saying it’s a little bit past where the timer is (for max range). You have to be closer for Dictator though. I had yuuvega in the trap two rounds in a row, but my spacing was bad, so he jumped out and killed me. Third round (3/5 on 360 HDR Classic) he perfected me @_@
As you can see in the video, Honda’s only option is usually to trade out of it (with hands).
damn! sim, u r scary!
God damn Gian is smart.
Gian was, at one point, the highest ranked ST player on the planet back in the day. I would love to see him sharpen up on his ST skills and show up at Evo. The dude was a master at the art of keeping people at arm’s length badumchh*
honda can get a trade in his favor with reversal short or forward butt-slam.
Honda went for that during the clip, and the yoga flame still beat it. Of course when Gian adjusted the spacing, then Honda managed to trade the buttslam vs. the yoga flame trap.
that honda never got reversal timing though.
Doesn’t matter, it’s about the spacing and timing of the flame since the hitbox changes throughout the move. Sim can theoretically set it up that no matter what honda does on wakeup he can’t get out.
Either way, it seems fairly difficult for Dhalsim to be able to execute the yoga flame trap to the point where Honda absolutely cannot get out. The spacing and timing of the flames need to be in pixel perfect range in order to do that, and it’d be difficult to be able to execute it without slightly shifting Dhalsim out of position, or mis-timing his flame.
It’d be interesting to see if we could test this theory though. Have a sim player hit up training mode with Honda attempting to do a reversal buttslam of various strengths while Sim tries to do the trap. I wonder if fierce headbutt could trade with Dhalsim’s face, in Honda’s favor, in order to get out.
Yeah I was just thinking that.
Looking at the hit boxes and frame data, I can see how it makes sense that it could be inescapable.
Every time I have gotten the trade, its been after the second rep, pianoing forward and short buttslams (I don’t think roundhouse would work at all), so since it is after the second rep it leaves a large room of error for the sim.
I would guess short slam would be the best, due to its large amount of invincibility frames on the way up.
I don’t think fierce headbutt would work since it has actually has a lot of vulnerability on its startup (a he can actually be thrown out of it, if properly timed).